So about Villanova...

[SU2NASA]

I don't understand how Villanova can have any semblance of recruiting with their non-existent fanbase, playing in front of a morgue, going to a school in the suburbs with the lamest student body this side of Notre Dame. What am I missing? How is this school a major college basketball program?

Seriously, look at this... for a game against the #1 team in the country, that's the student section.

And because this is awesome from their message board, this:

 

[longtimefan]

I don't understand how Villanova can have any semblance of recruiting with their non-existent fanbase, playing in front of a morgue, going to a school in the suburbs with the lamest student body this side of Notre Dame. What am I missing? How is this school a major college basketball program?

Seriously, look at this... for a game against the #1 team in the country, that's the student section.

And because this is awesome from their message board, this:

I don't know Philly logistics. How (in)convenient is it for the students to make the trip from the Villanova campus to the Wachovia Center? Plus, their team is lousy this season, after flaming out at the end of the past two years. And, it's a small undergrad enrollment. Not making excuses--just looking for reasons.

 

[SkanSU]

Also note that students still out on break

 

[jordoo]

Nova is a national program because they have been in the BE and are in a bball hot spot. If the BE had taken one of the other Philly schools then it would have been them not Nova. Jay Wright has kept them going but once the BE is out of the fball game they will slide down to a good midmajor type of school and then have a long term struggle on their hands to stay above the other philly schools.

 

[jimsonjunction]

Well Rivals has them with the 16th best recruiting class next year, so they should improve.

Most of us believe Jay Wright will get this thing together, but the Big East certainly looks less appealing after realignment. Not to mention JB and company have been cleaning up right in their backyard the last several years.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

This is going to be interesting times for many schools:

-Schools like SHU and Prov that appear to have landed great coaches. However, with the "Big East", as we know it, what happens?
-Nova. One school truly benefits from the Big East, it's them. What happens? Maybe the Big East remains a powerhouse and nothing changes but that's a big if.
-Even Pitt. They could face a major black eye this year and then moving to a new conf, with a style that is not friendly. I wonder if Pitt's days are numbered?

 

[jordoo]

-Even Pitt. They could face a major black eye this year and then moving to a new conf, with a style that is not friendly. I wonder if Pitt's days are numbered?

I've thought this about Pitt recently as well. We may have just lived through the golden years of the Pitt bball program. What Dixon is able to do with this bunch moving through the season and next year will be telling. If they have a really bad season next year and Dixon insists on perpetuating the same style in the ACC it could put Pitt in some pretty rough straights for quite a while as far as bball goes.

 

[SU2NASA]

Also note that students still out on break

Their games are always dead. If we have the best fanbase in college basketball, they have the worst.

 

[zls44]

I've thought this about Pitt recently as well. We may have just lived through the golden years of the Pitt bball program. What Dixon is able to do with this bunch moving through the season and next year will be telling. If they have a really bad season next year and Dixon insists on perpetuating the same style in the ACC it could put Pitt in some pretty rough straights for quite a while as far as bball goes.

Eh. They can probably get Ben Howland back pretty soon if they really wanted to.

 

[billsin01]

I'm not sure. I suppose head coaches make a difference -- seems like Ed Cooley is turning things around at PC and Fran Dunphy seems to have revived a stagnant temple program, etc.

What actually strikes me about Nova this year is how much they remind me of the "not 10 -ing wins" cuse team had it not had GMac. The Nova juniors are having to carry the team like the Cuse juniors would have had to carry the team were it not for GMac. And while none are having bad years, none are really having great years and they all have holes -- Yarou is solid but disappears, Cheek is scoring but not really distributing at all and Wayns is a really nice player has never been much of a shooter. Outside of those three, there is some talent but not much production. They've also just shot the ball horribly, but the parallels are somewhat interesting (GMac helps a lot -- w/o him it's watkins/roberts/nichols with help from devo and very little else).

 

[Cadillac]

Apathy blossoms when a team fans expect to be good just isn't.

They had an incredible run in the backcourt with Lowry, Ray, Nardi, Foye, Reynolds, Stokes, Fisher.

With Cheek and Wayns both McD's AAs, VU fans probably shrugged when Scoop and Dion (and Cooney) chose SU. Ooooooops

 

[Garbs]

combination of no students, weeknight(when people were getting back to work after holiday) and team struggling

it is much easier to find nova tickets this year for games at wells fargo

 

[pfister1]

I wouldn't count Villanova out just yet.

They are the 27th winningest Division I basketball program - not royalty, but that makes them really solid over the long haul.
They've made the final 4 - four times 1939, 1971, 1985, 2009 including one NC (same as us)
Elite Eight - 12 times including 78, 82, 83, 85, 88, 06 & 09 (better than us)
NCAA Tournament 32 times (we're at 34 times)
They are one of only 15 schools to have one both the NCAA ('85) and NIT ('94) Tournaments

I don't mean to sound like I am trying to say they are as good as we are, because that is not my intention, just that they aren't some program that had a short hot streak and is now going to fade into oblivion because of one down year - which isn't even over yet.

In terms of the fan base, they have a couple of handicaps that we don't face.
1. They play in a decidedly pro town and will always be second fiddle at best to the professional teams here.
2. Local college attention is split among the Big 5 +1 schools - Whoever is hot gets what little attention goes to the college game - so it is tougher for them to capture and keep the non-alums on board
3. Their home arena only accommodates 6,500 fans. I believe these tix have been sold out for some time. Yes they play bigger games at the Wells Fargo, but it is 20+ miles and 40+ minutes from campus. When your seasons ticket base is limited to 6,500 fans I would suspect that that would limit the interest in your games at the remote larger arena - especially in down years.

 

[longtimefan]

I wouldn't count Villanova out just yet.

They are the 27th winningest Division I basketball program - not royalty, but that makes them really solid over the long haul.
They've made the final 4 - four times 1939, 1971, 1985, 2009 including one NC (same as us)
Elite Eight - 12 times including 78, 82, 83, 85, 88, 06 & 09 (better than us)
NCAA Tournament 32 times (we're at 34 times)
They are one of only 15 schools to have one both the NCAA ('85) and NIT ('94) Tournaments

I don't mean to sound like I am trying to say they are as good as we are, because that is not my intention, just that they aren't some program that had a short hot streak and is now going to fade into oblivion because of one down year - which isn't even over yet.

In terms of the fan base, they have a couple of handicaps that we don't face.
1. They play in a decidedly pro town and will always be second fiddle at best to the professional teams here.
2. Local college attention is split among the Big 5 +1 schools - Whoever is hot gets what little attention goes to the college game - so it is tougher for them to capture and keep the non-alums on board
3. Their home arena only accommodates 6,500 fans. I believe these tix have been sold out for some time. Yes they play bigger games at the Wells Fargo, but it is 20+ miles and 40+ minutes from campus. When your seasons ticket base is limited to 6,500 fans I would suspect that that would limit the interest in your games at the remote larger arena - especially in down years.

Of your original 5 points, I would totally agree about #'s 4 & 5.

#1--27 is not so great. Not mediocre, but clearly not a historical program. Temple is well ahead of them.

#2--There were only 8 teams in the tournament in 1939, and their participation in 1971 was voided, because they had at least one player being paid (albeit, not by the school).

#3--Just me, probably, but I think "Elite Eight" is not an improtant distinction.

For the BB-only schools being left behind, the future is fraught with danger. Villanova has some advantages going forward, but who knows at what level they will settle once the current re-alignment phase is completed.

 

[General20]

I've thought this about Pitt recently as well. We may have just lived through the golden years of the Pitt bball program. What Dixon is able to do with this bunch moving through the season and next year will be telling. If they have a really bad season next year and Dixon insists on perpetuating the same style in the ACC it could put Pitt in some pretty rough straights for quite a while as far as bball goes.

I've only seen Pitt play twice (I think) this year, but I have a theory about why they are so bad. I believe Dixon knows his style of play can only work in the Big East, so he is trying to give up the thuggery and teach his kids actual basketball before they switch to the ACC.

Pitt isn't an overly talented team (then again they usually aren't) but they should be better than they are. A massive identity change would explain the failures they have had.

I havent seen Pitt play enough this year to know for sure if that is the reason they are playing so bad, but I'd be interested to hear what you or anybody else who has seen Pitt play a lot this year thinks about a change in their style.

 

[pfister1]

#1--27 is not so great. Not mediocre, but clearly not a historical program. Temple is well ahead of them.

If you sort the stats in the List of Teams with most victories in Wikipedia by winning percentage, they are 17th FWIW.

I am not as convinced as most that being outside of a BCS conference will be the beginning of the end for basketball only schools. It would be a huge problem for us because we want to play football at the high D1 level, I'm not convinced that Nova is truly desirous of doing so. I think the basketball only schools need to think carefully about cutting ties with the Big East and trying to do something independent once SU, WVU & Pitt leave. I also assume that Louisville and UConn will eventually leave as well.

 

[jordoo]

I've only seen Pitt play twice (I think) this year, but I have a theory about why they are so bad. I believe Dixon knows his style of play can only work in the Big East, so he is trying to give up the thuggery and teach his kids actual basketball before they switch to the ACC.

Pitt isn't an overly talented team (then again they usually aren't) but they should be better than they are. A massive identity change would explain the failures they have had.

I havent seen Pitt play enough this year to know for sure if that is the reason they are playing so bad, but I'd be interested to hear what you or anybody else who has seen Pitt play a lot this year thinks about a change in their style.

Well they are certainly much worse on defense and perhaps they cannot stop penetration because they are not holding and bumbing this year. You may be on to something and I'll have to watch for it next time. They still do the moving screens hip checks by the big out top every chance they get and they try to bang on the boards with little effect from what I've seen. The biggest thing I've noticed is that without Woodall Gibbs has to play the point and this takes away his strength of being an off the ball shooter while it also shows that he is not a pg in any way. Of course they weren't particularly good with him either.

 

[General20]

Well they are certainly much worse on defense and perhaps they cannot stop penetration because they are not holding and bumbing this year. You may be on to something and I'll have to watch for it next time. They still do the moving screens hip checks by the big out top every chance they get and they try to bang on the boards with little effect from what I've seen. The biggest thing I've noticed is that without Woodall Gibbs has to play the point and this takes away his strength of being an off the ball shooter while it also shows that he is not a pg in any way. Of course they weren't particularly good with him either.

If they are playing the same style and they are this bad, then they are going to have a BC style fall from grace when they get to the ACC.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Pitt's problem has always been not quite enough offense in the tournament. They run good sets and their play is fine, IMO. This year they clearly have lack of talent and as JB eluded to in SWC's recap, they lost three leading scorers and defenders.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I'd hate to see the Dome if we were ever to start the season 8-9.

Lots of fairweather fans out there. We're lucky to have had pretty darn fair weather for the last 30+ years.

 

[SoBristol]

If you are Pitt and Villanova, and have Dixon and Wright, you aren't going to be down for long. Those guys have recruited and built programs. Haven't had many down years; this might be one for both, but I would not count them out.

And, if you are fans of those programs, you might be thinking that JB won't be running the SU program forever, but their guys have a long run ahead of them.

Beat them good this year.

 

[billsin01]

I've only seen Pitt play twice (I think) this year, but I have a theory about why they are so bad. I believe Dixon knows his style of play can only work in the Big East, so he is trying to give up the thuggery and teach his kids actual basketball before they switch to the ACC.

Pitt isn't an overly talented team (then again they usually aren't) but they should be better than they are. A massive identity change would explain the failures they have had.

I havent seen Pitt play enough this year to know for sure if that is the reason they are playing so bad, but I'd be interested to hear what you or anybody else who has seen Pitt play a lot this year thinks about a change in their style.

Very interesting theory and could be. I tend to think it's more that they don't have Woodall and that leaves them with really three upper classmen and Zanna. Most years, even when they haven't been guys with a ton of minutes, they've generally had really veteran lineups. I think their style works better with 4th and 5th year guys.

 

[billsin01]

If you are Pitt and Villanova, and have Dixon and Wright, you aren't going to be down for long. Those guys have recruited and built programs. Haven't had many down years; this might be one for both, but I would not count them out.

And, if you are fans of those programs, you might be thinking that JB won't be running the SU program forever, but their guys have a long run ahead of them.

Beat them good this year.

Agreed. I don't think you could go wrong with either of those guys.

 

[shermstheman]

I've thought this about Pitt recently as well. We may have just lived through the golden years of the Pitt bball program. What Dixon is able to do with this bunch moving through the season and next year will be telling. If they have a really bad season next year and Dixon insists on perpetuating the same style in the ACC it could put Pitt in some pretty rough straights for quite a while as far as bball goes.

I've often looked at Pitt and felt they lacked talent...then they go and beat the bajeebers out of us most every year. Dixon can flat out coach. If they need to change a bit to play in the ACC they will...it's not like the rules change, they'll figure it out. I figured they'd go south after Howland left (it was Howland who went south instead). Pitt may be a program that is only as good as their current coach but so long as that is Dixon they'll be fine.

 

[CorduroyG]

Very interesting theory and could be. I tend to think it's more that they don't have Woodall and that leaves them with really three upper classmen and Zanna. Most years, even when they haven't been guys with a ton of minutes, they've generally had really veteran lineups. I think their style works better with 4th and 5th year guys.

Or in the case of carl krauser, 10 year guys.