So how long until the playoff expands to 8?

[sufandu]

My apologies for picking on the word "perfect". As for the word "ideal", the point of my posts is not to state what I believe to be ideal, but to try and present how I believe the P5 view the situation.

The regular season was protected by weighting the championship games when all other factors were basically equal. In essence, one can take the stance that the playoff already is 9 or 10 teams. It's just that the Elite 8 round is played championship week in the regular season instead of in January.

Cheers,
Neil

That's not what the committee said it would do. I said it would take the best 4 teams. How is beating Wisconsin in a CCG any better than Baylor beating TCU in October? It isn't. Or at least it shouldn't be. Why is it that OSU's loss at home by two touchdowns to an unranked 6-6 team is less damaging than TCU's last second 3 point loss to a top 10 team? The regular season wasn't protected. It was ignored.

 

[omniorange]

That's not what the committee said it would do. I said it would take the best 4 teams. How is beating Wisconsin in a CCG any better than Baylor beating TCU in October? It isn't. Or at least it shouldn't be. Why is it that OSU's loss at home by two touchdowns to an unranked 6-6 team is less damaging than TCU's last second 3 point loss to a top 10 team? The regular season wasn't protected. It was ignored.

No. The committee valued the 13th game and OSU's wins over Michigan State, Minnesota and Wisconsin more than it did Baylor's OOC schedule and wins over TCU and K-State.

It's as simple as that.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[sufandu]

No. The committee valued the 13th game and OSU's wins over Michigan State, Minnesota and Wisconsin more than it did Baylor's OOC schedule and wins over TCU and K-State.

It's as simple as that.

Cheers,
Neil

They valued what would fit their agenda and ignored what did not.

 

[SWC75]

In politics they have what is called the "collation of enemies. You get elected, you have some enemies, some supporters, some on the fence and some who don't care. But when you start making decisions that have winners and losers, you find that the losers have longer memories than the winners and you opposition builds and builds until you can no longer win an election. The more teams and conferences get left out, the more they'll be willing to rebel against a system that did it to them.

 

[omniorange]

They valued what would fit their agenda and ignored what did not.

Perhaps, but I don't believe it to be an egregious error based upon how the final numbers finished up. The SOS numbers were not as far apart as some believe. I actually think that had Baylor lost to K-State then TCU might have had a better shot of getting in. But once Baylor won the head-to-head came into play with the evaluation between those two and then the committee was not willing to reward Baylor over Ohio State for it's pathetic OOC schedule. It was partly sending a message in that regard as well.

But we will continue to agree to disagree.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

In politics they have what is called the "collation of enemies. You get elected, you have some enemies, some supporters, some on the fence and some who don't care. But when you start making decisions that have winners and losers, you find that the losers have longer memories than the winners and you opposition builds and builds until you can no longer win an election. The more teams and conferences get left out, the more they'll be willing to rebel against a system that did it to them.

Perhaps, but it seems to me the P5 response to this is consolidate the power by eliminating conferences. Whether it be 4 conferences of 16 or simply 4 conferences of varying sizes. The three most powerful conferences of the P5 seem to want to become the P4 and right now only the power of Texas and ND has prevented that from happening. How long that will be the case remains to be seen.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SWC75]

Then who gets in as #7 and #8? Think #9 and #10 would say the system is perfect?

Now consider this scenario. GT upsets FSU, Wiscy beats OSU, and Arizona beats Oregon who gets in with an 8 team playoff?

There would be two 12-1 teams - Alabama and FSU; five 11-2 teams Oregon, Arizona, GT, Ohio State, Wisconsin; two 11-1 teams Baylor and TCU; and two 10-2 teams Michigan State and Mississippi State.

How is 8 any more perfect than 4 in that scenario?

Now throw in a potential undefeated G5 team or a guaranteed slot for the best G5 champion into the mix?

Still think it's perfect? No system is perfect and I'll let you in on a secret you may or may not know. It's not meant to be.

The system is meant to protect the P5, protect the regular season, to keep the G5 down, and to make the most possible in terms of $$$ while achieving those goals.

Cheers,
Neil

From my post "The Undefeated:

"We are now down to one unbeaten team, (sorry, BCS fans), and 5 one loss teams. Fans of an eight team playoff, (like me) will be rooting for there to be enough one loss teams that the combined total of them and the undefeated teams will exceed 4. Since 1973, (when the small college playoffs began and a major college playoff could have been initiated as well), there have been an average of 2 undefeated teams each year and 5 teams that won every game but one, (some of them had ties). The total of such teams was four or less only 5 times in 41 years. There have been 88 teams recognized as national champions since 1936 by the writer’s poll, the coach’s poll or the BCS. 84 of them have won all their games or all their games but one, so that can stand as the definition of a national championship contender and it appears we will have more than four such teams 88% of the time."

No system is perfect so you've got to pick the one that is best. That's 8 teams.

 

[omniorange]

From my post "The Undefeated:

"We are now down to one unbeaten team, (sorry, BCS fans), and 5 one loss teams. Fans of an eight team playoff, (like me) will be rooting for there to be enough one loss teams that the combined total of them and the undefeated teams will exceed 4. Since 1973, (when the small college playoffs began and a major college playoff could have been initiated as well), there have been an average of 2 undefeated teams each year and 5 teams that won every game but one, (some of them had ties). The total of such teams was four or less only 5 times in 41 years. There have been 88 teams recognized as national champions since 1936 by the writer’s poll, the coach’s poll or the BCS. 84 of them have won all their games or all their games but one, so that can stand as the definition of a national championship contender and it appears we will have more than four such teams 88% of the time."

No system is perfect so you've got to pick the one that is best. That's 8 teams.

And again, taking the viewpoint of the power brokers within the P5, they appear to believe the conference championship games in December are the equivalent of the Elite 8 games in January. It's just that they find themselves with 5 conferences instead of 4 and have to work with that for now.

Fans and coaches will always want more. Of course we sit on our butts and mostly watch the games on TV and coaches are always looking for that next win that will either save their jobs (the meaningless bowl game wins) or a chance to move on to a better one (a playoff win). What we want doesn't really count. If it did we'd already be debating the value of 16 over 8.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[KaiserUEO]

everybody wants to be a 1 seed in hoop too, so i could care less.

i feel bad for the #5, but wouldnt for the #9.

clearly the system is...that in a perfect world, which is sort of what happened this year...you have the 5 P5 champ games and of those...only 4 get in.

the problem was/is...1 of the P5's decided to not have a champ game...and because of that, they were left holding the bag.

as they should.

you cant play by your own rules.

there will always be inequity in the champ games and in deciding the F4, as long as its the north v south or east v west etc, format we now see.

because the non champ game teams are all going to be sitting there hoping for the chalk to lose so they can capitalize on their misfortune.

if the chalk wins, then the misfortune is theirs.

thats life.

the bevo was just taught a lesson, someday nd will likely be taught one too.

the perfect scenario is where the top 10 is all P5s and their champ games with the winners deciding the F4...and somebody left crying.

hopefully the crybaby conf changes every year...

 

[texascpa]

Wait until next year when only 4 BigXII teams are playing on Championship weekend. Oh, and TCU is not one of them.

 

[Full_Rebar]

People don't need to worry about the non P5, once the break happens they will have their own playoff and tv will pay to show their games.

 

[sufandu]

Perhaps, but I don't believe it to be an egregious error based upon how the final numbers finished up. The SOS numbers were not as far apart as some believe. I actually think that had Baylor lost to K-State then TCU might have had a better shot of getting in. But once Baylor won the head-to-head came into play with the evaluation between those two and then the committee was not willing to reward Baylor over Ohio State for it's pathetic OOC schedule. It was partly sending a message in that regard as well.

But we will continue to agree to disagree.

Cheers,
Neil

That's why it doesn't make sense. How does beating a 2 two loss team make you look better than beating a 1 loss team, just because it allows for a decided conference champion? It shouldn't. If SOS wasn't all that different, then Baylor's win over TCU means more than any win OSU had all year. Who cares that much about small differences between OOC strength if overall SOS is similar? OSU's OOC schedule wasn't that much better than Baylor's? They played one mediocre P5 team and lost by 2 TD's at home.

If it's about OOC schedule, TCU's was comparable to OSU's. TCU's P5 OOC opponent finished with a better record than OSU's and they actually beat them. Coincidentally, it was also a common opponent that TCU beat by 23 and OSU beat by 7. Normally, I don't like to play the "my team won by more than your team" game, but when it's combined with an overall stronger SOS and a "better" loss, it's significant.

Objectively, OSU didn't deserve to be in the top 4. TCU and Baylor had better arguments.

 

[nzm136]

Well, the contract with ESPN runs for 12 years. There would have to be a groundswell of support from the commissioners of the FBS conferences, along with the school presidents. I don't think the appetite is there yet for an increase in the number of teams.

-Unless ESPN decides that having the rights to more meaningful games is a good thing for them. Contracts are only worth while if both sides want to honor them.

 

[SWC75]

And again, taking the viewpoint of the power brokers within the P5, they appear to believe the conference championship games in December are the equivalent of the Elite 8 games in January. It's just that they find themselves with 5 conferences instead of 4 and have to work with that for now.

Fans and coaches will always want more. Of course we sit on our butts and mostly watch the games on TV and coaches are always looking for that next win that will either save their jobs (the meaningless bowl game wins) or a chance to move on to a better one (a playoff win). What we want doesn't really count. If it did we'd already be debating the value of 16 over 8.

Cheers,
Neil

The difference between 16 and 8 is that there are no legitimate national championship contenders in #9-16 but there are in #5-8.

 

[SWC75]

Perhaps, but it seems to me the P5 response to this is consolidate the power by eliminating conferences. Whether it be 4 conferences of 16 or simply 4 conferences of varying sizes. The three most powerful conferences of the P5 seem to want to become the P4 and right now only the power of Texas and ND has prevented that from happening. How long that will be the case remains to be seen.

Cheers,
Neil

I've felt for a while that this will become a war for survival between the ACC and the Big 12 to see who will live in a four conference world. That's why it might due for the ACC to raid the Big 12 for West Virginia, (who obviously belongs there), and further reduce the Big 12. Maybe the SEC would take away Texas and Oklahoma for the kill shot.

It's jungle out there.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

There are what, 128 teams in the FBS? Half of the teams are essentially completely eliminated from ever even having an opportunity to get into a playoff. I like the true national nature of college football (Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, everybody is involved) and do not want a 30 team league of SEC +. With the superconferences and the 4 team playoff many programs in the lower half will probably end up dropping their football programs a la UAB.

I believe a 16 team playoff would be perfect. You could give home field advantage to the higher seeds, you could have regional/bowl playoff sites, or a combination of both (early rounds HFA, later rounds Bowls). All the P5 champs would be in regardless of how they determine a champion. High caliber teams would get the at larges and even a few stellar mid majors like a Marshall might be able to squeak in from time to time. This adds a kind of March Madness element to major college football.

I would cut a game or two off of the regular season, perhaps eliminating conference title games altogether. The whole setup would be to allow for playoffs to start right after thanksgiving and running them through each weekend in December, culminating with the title game around the New Year. My God it would be beautiful.

But, I am a dreamer and it will probably never happen, I'd be thrilled to have 8 teams though, and I think that will happen eventually.

 

[KaiserUEO]

i cant help but laugh at people thinking tcu or baylor should be in over the buckeyes.

hysterical.

and nd needs to wake up and realize that every program is 'national' now and their little fascination to staying independent will be fine for the P5, because it will ultimately take them out of any national title contention.

eventually nd football will be like the chicago cubs...the nations loveable losers, who once in a while rise up and do something...only to fall short of the ultimate prize.

 

[Chip]

So far, to my knowledge, the FBS coaches have favored expanding the playoffs to 8 teams. But the only conference commissioner who has supported it somewhat is Swofford. But then, he knows an ACC team being left out is more likely than any other conference, despite what happened this year. If the ACC turns it around in football, I bet he changes his tune.

Cheers,
Neil

I would think if you asked Bowlsby today, he'd probably openly support it.

 

[sufandu]

i cant help but laugh at people thinking tcu or baylor should be in over the buckeyes.

hysterical.

Why? How is OSU better?

 

[omniorange]

The difference between 16 and 8 is that there are no legitimate national championship contenders in #9-16 but there are in #5-8.

And when #8 wins it all, don't you think that #9 and #10 might disagree with that?

I personally don't care. But there is just too much going against expanding the playoffs to 8, no matter how much we as fans may want it. Heck, from the moment the BCS was in full bloom, fans have been pining away for an 8 team playoff. I think it will be 4 for a while now.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[KaiserUEO]

Why? How is OSU better?

how are they not?

baylor beat tcu, so thats the end of that.

then baylor lost to wv...which is a wash to vpi... yet played gary reasons u instead of another d1 program, like osu who then had to go out and beat wisconsin in a champ game.

game, set, match.

 

[omniorange]

I would think if you asked Bowlsby today, he'd probably openly support it.

Wasn't his first public reaction to talk about potentially expanding and/or getting a championship game, not the playoff needs to be 8 teams? Has he even mentioned yet that the playoffs should expand to 8 teams?

Even if he comes around, don't see the other conferences going for it. Too many factors against it in the current landscape. Some changes still need to be made before it happens, IF it ever does happen.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

I've felt for a while that this will become a war for survival between the ACC and the Big 12 to see who will live in a four conference world. That's why it might due for the ACC to raid the Big 12 for West Virginia, (who obviously belongs there), and further reduce the Big 12. Maybe the SEC would take away Texas and Oklahoma for the kill shot.

It's jungle out there.

I honestly didn't think it would even come to the ACC vs B12. In my mind I thought the regionality of the 4 conferences would speak for itself - SEC the conference of the South, PAC the conference of the West, Big Ten the conference of the Midwest, and the ACC the conference of the East.

But it hasn't turned out that way just yet. And it may never happen. Which speaks to the power of both Texas and ND. How long they can hold out will be interesting to watch in the years to come.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

There are what, 128 teams in the FBS? Half of the teams are essentially completely eliminated from ever even having an opportunity to get into a playoff. I like the true national nature of college football (Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, everybody is involved) and do not want a 30 team league of SEC +. With the superconferences and the 4 team playoff many programs in the lower half will probably end up dropping their football programs a la UAB.

I believe a 16 team playoff would be perfect. You could give home field advantage to the higher seeds, you could have regional/bowl playoff sites, or a combination of both (early rounds HFA, later rounds Bowls). All the P5 champs would be in regardless of how they determine a champion. High caliber teams would get the at larges and even a few stellar mid majors like a Marshall might be able to squeak in from time to time. This adds a kind of March Madness element to major college football.

I would cut a game or two off of the regular season, perhaps eliminating conference title games altogether. The whole setup would be to allow for playoffs to start right after thanksgiving and running them through each weekend in December, culminating with the title game around the New Year. My God it would be beautiful.

But, I am a dreamer and it will probably never happen, I'd be thrilled to have 8 teams though, and I think that will happen eventually.

Is there something that prevents the half that is now essentially eliminated from the CFP creating their own playoff, sort of being like the NIT came to be to the NCAAs? If there isn't, have to believe it would be more entertaining and worth more money than the FCS championships.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Chip]

Wasn't his first public reaction to talk about potentially expanding and/or getting a championship game, not the playoff needs to be 8 teams? Has he even mentioned yet that the playoffs should expand to 8 teams?

Even if he comes around, don't see the other conferences going for it. Too many factors against it in the current landscape. Some changes still need to be made before it happens, IF it ever does happen.

Cheers,
Neil

Yes, but that's the easier reaction to have. It was obvious that the lack of a 13th game did them in, so the first reaction is that maybe we need a 13th game. I think it's easier to say that than to immediately say we need to move to 8 teams. Attempts to put it on the committee for how they choose, rather than sound like sour grapes. Even his comment of "I wish we had known about how they would evaluate that extra game".

But after a few days to think about it, he had a slam dunk of getting 2 teams in, and if they don't change a thing in their league, they have a better chance of getting 2 teams in than any other league would. That last loss could knock the 2nd best team out of most leagues, assuming they get balance in their divisions.