So raise your hand if..

[two3zone]

Nah this was an excuse for Roberson, too. Once he got healthy, he was a beast.

He must not have been healthy very often.

 

[Cuseball]

Sure. My point is, if a coach that most think is inferior to JB has them this good in a relatively short time without pulling in any remarkable recruiting classes (consistently worse than ours) since he's been there, why are they a top 10 team and we are not a top 25 team. Why are we underachieving? We shouldn't be.

Rick Barnes!!! In his career he is 22-23 in the NCAA tournament. He had Kevin Durant and couldn't win in the NCAA tournament. Let that sink in. His team this year looks solid but pulling a Rick Barnes comparison vs Jimmy is not the best plan.

Cuse!

 

[sufandu]

and what correlates perfectly with those 4 years?

They don't match up perfectly. The scholarship limitations began in 2015-16. The 2014-15 was the beginning of the the dip. Scholarship limits should take time to take a toll, so they do little to explain 2014-15 or 2015-16. And before you mention JB's suspension in 2015-16, JB was not suspended when we lost 4 of our last 5 regular season games and then in the first round of the ACC tournament.

We are in the midst of the longest down period of JB's tenure. Are we spoiled? Absolutely. That's what sustained success does. It creates expectations.

 

[sufandu]

Rick Barnes!!! In his career he is 22-23 in the NCAA tournament. He had Kevin Durant and couldn't win in the NCAA tournament. Let that sink in. His team this year looks solid but pulling a Rick Barnes comparison vs Jimmy is not the best plan.

Cuse!

You prove my point well. We should be better than them, especially with all of our returning experience.

Before you're too hard on Barnes, JB couldn't win it with Derrick Coleman and Billy Owens on the same team for two years. And Sherman Douglas was on the team when Owens was a freshman.

 

[moqui]

They don't match up perfectly. .

yes, they do. you ignore the psycholigical impact on a team facing a complete post season ban

We are in the midst of the longest down period of JB's tenure.

and yet . . . 7-2 in the ncaa's with a final four & another sweet 16

 

[OrangeDW]

You prove my point well. We should be better than them, especially with all of our returning experience.

Before you're too hard on Barnes, JB couldn't win it with Derrick Coleman and Billy Owens on the same team for two years. And Sherman Douglas was on the team when Owens was a freshman.

Everybody was much more loaded in 89-91. Hard to compare that era to Durant’s era(2007 or so?), in terms of talent.

Coleman and Douglas were a hoop away from a title. Owens made the elite 8.

KD went out in round 2, by 20.

 

[FrancoPizza]

and yet . . . 7-2 in the ncaa's with a final four & another sweet 16

Are you saying you're happy with mediocre regular seasons and a borderline-unwatchable offense as long as we sneak into the tournament and pull an upset?

 

[PoppyHart]

For a guy who will end the year with roughly 690 wins, Rick Barnes is certainly treated like a replacement level coach.

 

[SoBeCuse]

You prove my point well. We should be better than them, especially with all of our returning experience.

Before you're too hard on Barnes, JB couldn't win it with Derrick Coleman and Billy Owens on the same team for two years. And Sherman Douglas was on the team when Owens was a freshman.

Who knows what Tennessee and Barnes will do. But, I don’t necessarily think we should be better than them based on LAST year and returning experience. How good are these players truly? The defense was very good in the Tourney but the offense was absolutely dreadful still. The Zone mucked the games up and we stalled enough to win. Tennessee has a lot of interchangeable parts on offense. A C who can score and step out. More team speed and physical forwards who made it possible to compete with and beat Gonzaga. No fluke. We might be able to beat a Gonzaga once in the Tourney if the stars align and we get lucky, but, Gonzaga would wipe the floor with us 8 or 9 times out of 10, IMO.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For a guy who will end the year with roughly 690 wins, Rick Barnes is certainly treated like a replacement level coach.

That's because Texas thought their program was better than it is.
Shaka Smart has come in and been worse.

 

[PoppyHart]

Everybody was much more loaded in 89-91. Hard to compare that era to Durant’s era(2007 or so?), in terms of talent.

Coleman and Douglas were a hoop away from a title. Owens made the elite 8.

KD went out in round 2, by 20.

Yes, they lost in the 2nd round with KD. That loss was also sandwiched between two Elite 8 appearances in '06 and '08.

 

[Fly Rodder]

He must not have been healthy very often.

we're still waiting.

 

[Cuseball]

For a guy who will end the year with roughly 690 wins, Rick Barnes is certainly treated like a replacement level coach.

he's fine but he is no where near the level of JB. He's lost more than he's won in the NCAA's and that really is all you need to say

 

[moqui]

Are you saying you're happy with mediocre regular seasons and a borderline-unwatchable offense as long as we sneak into the tournament and pull an upset?

no
i'm saying that despite the sanctions that were designed to cripple the program, jb has managed to not just keep it afloat, but to have it in position to excel in the post season
i've been saying it for quite some time as i'm pretty sure you are aware

 

[SoBeCuse]

Also, gotta be careful with all of the data and analytics. KenPom has Miami at 45. That’s malarkey. Miami is 5-4 with losses against Penn (no contest), Rutgers, and Yale. A 2pt win VS Fresno St. Their best win! They are in the Top 50 in AdjO (43) and 59 in AdjD. Miami is not a good team. Not even close.

 

[Cuseball]

no
i'm saying that despite the sanctions that were designed to cripple the program, jb has managed to not just keep it afloat, but to have it in position to excel in the post season
i've been saying it for quite some time as i'm pretty sure you are aware

100% agree. We all want to do better in the regular season but there are reasons why we are down. Some won't acknowledge, some don't care, we can argue until we are blue in the face etc.

Regardless, if this is our down period then Jimmy has done a masterful job getting his team ready to peak in what ultimately matters. 3 Final Eights in 7 years, 2 Final Fours in 6 years, 7 tournament wins in the last 3 seasons including a Final Four.

Cuse!

 

[PoppyHart]

he's fine but he is no where near the level of JB. He's lost more than he's won in the NCAA's and that really is all you need to say

Here are some other "fine" coach's NCAAT records.

Gregg Marshall: 11-14
Kelvin Sampson: 13-15
Mike Brey: 13-14
Mark Gottfried: 10-11
Dana Altman: 13-13
Jamie Dixon: 12-12
Matt Painter: 12-11
Steve Alford: 11-11
Tom Crean: 11-9
Lon Kruger: 20-18

I only included coaches with at least 20 games and who were less than 3 games over .500 in aggregate. If "all you really need to say" about the guy is that he keeps this company then I'd say he's done pretty darn well for himself.

Bold = Final Four (2* for Kruger)
Italics = Elite Eight appearance

 

[DoctorBombay]

FFS, this thread has devolved into yet another hodgepodge of chicken-little bs, mixed in with preemptive hystrionics...both of which will more than likely, NOT age well.
It’s like some fans just can’t help themselves. Anyway...back to your regularly scheduled doom fest! JMHO

 

[two3zone]

he's fine but he is no where near the level of JB. He's lost more than he's won in the NCAA's and that really is all you need to say

If you're judging by wins then one or two coaches would be the level of JB, not sure I've seen anybody outside one or two guys are at his level. Don't think anybody has said they'd take Barnes over him.

 

[Cuseball]

Here are some other "fine" coach's NCAAT records.

Gregg Marshall: 11-14
Kelvin Sampson: 13-15
Mike Brey: 13-14
Mark Gottfried: 10-11
Dana Altman: 13-13
Jamie Dixon: 12-12
Matt Painter: 12-11
Steve Alford: 11-11
Tom Crean: 11-9
Lon Kruger: 20-18

I only included coaches with at least 20 games and who were less than 3 games over .500 in aggregate. If "all you really need to say" about the guy is that he keeps this company then I'd say he's done pretty darn well for himself.

Bold = Final Four (2* for Kruger)
Italics = Elite Eight appearance

the point was comparing him to Jimmy is absurd. Not in the same class at all. Good coach and good recruiter but nowhere near JB's level. Nor are any of these other guys

Cuse!

 

[Cuseball]

If you're judging by wins then one or two coaches would be the level of JB, not sure I've seen anybody outside one or two guys are at his level. Don't think anybody has said they'd take Barnes over him.

perhaps I misinterpreted. I believe someone was asking why Tennessee is better than us and implying it was because of Barnes. if that was not implied and I went off on a tangent then I apologize

Cuse

 

[sufandu]

yes, they do. you ignore the psycholigical impact on a team facing a complete post season ban


and yet . . . 7-2 in the ncaa's with a final four & another sweet 16

Psychological impact is BS. The last time we had a post season ban we won the Big East tournament. If that team tanked because of one they were mentally weak. I don't believe that. Are you saying they were?

This discussion has been about regular season performance. Getting hot in March is nice but does not erase the regular season.

We are 7-2. Those two losses got us knocked out of the top 25. We mock UConn and then lose to them. Oregon is good, they've recruited 3 5* guys the last 2 years. Why is that something we haven't been able to do? We have a HOF coach, a superior history, and elite facilities.

 

[sufandu]

Everybody was much more loaded in 89-91. Hard to compare that era to Durant’s era(2007 or so?), in terms of talent.

Coleman and Douglas were a hoop away from a title. Owens made the elite 8.

KD went out in round 2, by 20.

That's fair. Those guys also had multiple attempts. Durant had one. Honest question, who else was on that team? Was he the whole thing?

 

[dasher]

Psychological impact is BS. The last time we had a post season ban we won the Big East tournament. If that team tanked because of one they were mentally weak. I don't believe that. Are you saying they were?

This discussion has been about regular season performance. Getting hot in March is nice but does not erase the regular season.

We are 7-2. Those two losses got us knocked out of the top 25. We mock UConn and then lose to them. Oregon is good, they've recruited 3 5* guys the last 2 years. Why is that something we haven't been able to do? We have a HOF coach, a superior history, and elite facilities.

There is an answer to the why.

 

[sufandu]

Who knows what Tennessee and Barnes will do. But, I don’t necessarily think we should be better than them based on LAST year and returning experience. How good are these players truly? The defense was very good in the Tourney but the offense was absolutely dreadful still. The Zone mucked the games up and we stalled enough to win. Tennessee has a lot of interchangeable parts on offense. A C who can score and step out. More team speed and physical forwards who made it possible to compete with and beat Gonzaga. No fluke. We might be able to beat a Gonzaga once in the Tourney if the stars align and we get lucky, but, Gonzaga would wipe the floor with us 8 or 9 times out of 10, IMO.

I'm not saying they are a fluke. What I am saying is our rectruits have been consistently rated higher. Either Barnes has been awesome at spotting guys that have been flying under the radar or he done a great job developing them. Regardless, given a HOF coach, our history, and our facilities we should be seeing similar results. It's not like we have a bunch of freshman just figuring it out. We have experience at every position. Even with our experienced PG working his way back after an injury, we should have enough experience and talent at all the other positions to beat UConn and not squeek it out against Georgetown.