So, we actually turned our noses up at Tremont Waters?

[TinyManInside]

There's been an issue with not only developing talent but also talent evaluation. We need some changes and quick.

Boeheim really used to be a master talent evaluator.

 

[RF2044]

Too short for the zone. Next.

...a continued flaw of assessment. Staff took a hard pass on Jalen Brunson because he was too short. Three years later, at 6-2 and the winner of two national championships in three years, he made that assessment seem asinine in retrospect.

I don't care if the staff recruits system fits for the zone at every OTHER position, but we are screwing up sacrificing skill for size / length at point guard. College basketball is so heavily guard driven, that we really disadvantage ourselves by not having guys who are natural lead guards. Plus, we've had / recruited many lead guards who aren't rangy athletes, and several of those guys have had nice careers here.

If there is one position we should recruit the best talent and not worry about purely defensive fit, it's point guard.

 

[rrlbees]

Ayala and Zegarowski both had solid FR years and made waaay more contributions to their respective teams than Carey did to SU. Both shot over 40% from 3. But neither are huge for the PG position so who cares if they have actual skills.

Ayala is 6’4 and I thought we went after him pretty hard.

 

[RF2044]

Ayala is 6’4 and I thought we went after him pretty hard.

We did. We wanted him to reclassify, and he would have been an interesting "bounce back" after Quade Green.

His camp made the recruitment problematic, to say the least.

 

[Shark58]

did anyone mention bags yet??

 

[rrlbees]

did anyone mention bags yet??

Did anyone mention lsu’s coach being on an fbi tape giving out bags?

 

[RF2044]

Ayala and Zegarowski both had solid FR years and made waaay more contributions to their respective teams than Carey did to SU. Both shot over 40% from 3. But neither are huge for the PG position so who cares if they have actual skills.

It will be interesting to see what Carey does next year. If he makes the sophomore leap, benefitting from the offseason summer tour to get his sea legs, etc. then I have zero issue with the staff's decision.

That isn't a sure thing, given his performance in year 1.

 

[Cuseball]

He plays for LSU, who’s coach was literally fired this season because of being wiretapped talking about paying a player. But yeah, no bags ever I’m sure.

Yeah this is obvious. Coach caught cheating and paying their 3rd best player. I’m sure nothing happened with waters and Reid.

Cuse!

 

[Brooky03]

Staff had to choose between Ayala or Waters. Ayala was the better fit.

 

[Cuseball]

It will be interesting to see what Carey does next year. If he makes the sophomore leap, benefitting from the offseason summer tour to get his sea legs, etc. then I have zero issue with the staff's decision.

That isn't a sure thing, given his performance in year 1.

I think every recruiting analyst had Carey rated higher than both those guys. Maybe everyone is wrong when they don’t have the advantage of hindsight. It’s always way when you look back afterwards

 

[syrBossHogg]

Brunson was always the bigger miss than Waters

 

[RF2044]

I think every recruiting analyst had Carey rated higher than both those guys. Maybe everyone is wrong when they don’t have the advantage of hindsight. It’s always way when you look back afterwards

I don't think its hindsight -- I think it is LIKELY that Carey bounces back, and makes everybody forget about this poor frosh season debut.

But I'll admit that I have nervous doubts given how careless with the ball he was...

I think I'm traumatized by how several of our recruits have turned out in recent years. I'll own that anxiety. But in the main, I'd be surprised if Carey doesn't prove to live up to the hype / being the hand picked successor at PG.

I'll own that "prediction" as well.

 

[Cuseball]

I don't think its hindsight -- I think it is LIKELY that Carey bounces back, and makes everybody forget about this poor frosh season debut.

Sorry, I apparently can’t read very well

Cuse

 

[Cheriehoop]

Never said they didn't, just gets old around here.

You truly think that’s what gets old here? It’s not making unfound accusations against SU on an SU message board? Lots of trolling here that doesn’t get called out because they say they are ‘fans’.

 

[Cuse1055]

Never said they didn't, just gets old around here.

Old but pretty sure it’s true in this case at least.

 

[two3zone]

You truly think that’s what gets old here? It’s not making unfound accusations against SU on an SU message board? Lots of trolling here that doesn’t get called out because they say they are ‘fans’.

Do you go to the recruiting forum? Literally every guy we don't get is because of a "bag"

 

[AZOrange]

Do you go to the recruiting forum? Literally every guy we don't get is because of a "bag"

Waters had baggage...everyone knew it

 

[two3zone]

Waters had baggage...everyone knew it

What about Brunson and Morris?

 

[Orange Barrel]

Brunson had plenty of baggage. He referred to it as Dad.

 

[Cuseball]

Waters had baggage...everyone knew it

Yes it’s not a secret at all. LSU defining cheating and their sweet sixteen will soon be vacated

 

[two3zone]

Brunson had plenty of baggage. He referred to it as Dad.

If it's not a bag it's baggage.

With the issues we've had I'm willing to deal with baggage.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If it's not a bag it's baggage.

With the issues we've had I'm willing to deal with baggage.

The important thing is, whether standalone word or part of a bigger one, it's fun to say bag.

Bag.

 

[jdubs30]

I’m 25 minutes from where Waters went to HS and I’m good friends with a HC in the league he played in.

The stories about him were true, that’s all that needs to be said

 

[IthacaMatt]

There's been an issue with not only developing talent but also talent evaluation. We need some changes and quick.

The guys on the road are not as good as a lot of guys we used to have, at various times in our history.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ayala and Zegarowski both had solid FR years and made waaay more contributions to their respective teams than Carey did to SU. Both shot over 40% from 3. But neither are huge for the PG position so who cares if they have actual skills.

I think Carey is as good as Jason Hart defensively.
If he can just slow the hell down on offense, he could be outstanding next year.
He and Goodine could be a really good athletic pair of guards, better than Triche and Scoop at the same point in their careers.

Let me add to this: after looking up their numbers, maybe I spoke too soon. If these 2 guys play this well, along with Buddy, we are going to have a tremendous backcourt.

Brandon Triche as a freshman was really pretty good:
50% from the field, 40% from 3, 63% from the line, 3 assists, 2 TOs per game
Played 21 minutes a game, averaged 8 points.

Scoop was a sophomore, and he averaged 9 points in 22 minutes a game.
He wasn't quite the shooter that Triche was, but he put up more shots, and more contested shots.

Triche drove well and picked his spots for open jumpers. Scoop liked to take those jumpers from the corner and was willing to put up a contested shot, while Brandon usually made the safe play.

Scoop was the wildcard, but he still shot 52% from the floor and 39% from three in only his second season. Scoop averaged over 4 assists per game, and more than 1 steal per game.

I think those 2 guys, Goodine and Carey, can be that good next year, or close to it.
I don't think Carey is going to match Triche's shooting numbers, or shot selection, but he certainly can score.
I think Goodine can be a Scoop kind of player for us.

But 2010 was Scoop's sophomore year, after a redshirt year. His freshman year, he only shot 28% from three, but still 46% from the floor and over 80% from the line. He only averaged 5.5 points in 21 minutes, though, in 2008.

I think if you look at our guards, and we can get 8 points or so out of Goodine and Carey, and 10-12 out of Buddy, and maybe 4 points or so off the bench from Girard, that's all the production we'll probably need,

Hughes is good for 15 a game again, and if Guerrier starts, he's probably good for another 10-12 points. Marek will probably average around 6 as a utility man, with a bit more assertiveness, and we'll likely get about 6 points and 8 rebounds collectively from 3 guys at center, and hopefully at least 2-3 blocks.

That's probably a little conservative because one of the young guards other than Buddy is probably going to be closer to double digits, and Buddy might go for 14 a game. I'm trying to be conservative. I didn't even mention Braswell's contribution if Brissett decides to leave.

Without Battle, Frank and Brissett, I still think there's enough talent to score 65-70 PPG on offense. Maybe more because I think the ball will move better; there will be fewer ball stoppers on offense, and I think we're going to play faster as well.