Some of you need to chill

[orangecuse]

Really smart CEOs (and I think Dino can be one of them unlike someone we all know) believe that the best way to succeed is to surround yourself with really good people. I have no doubt he is preparing to do that come the end of this season,

Real smart CEO's know how to succeed by manipulating their stock with creative stock "buy back" techniques/incentives which elevates their stock prices. This keeps their ultimate goal, keeping shareholders, happy. The repurchased shares are absorbed by the company, and the number of outstanding shares on the market is reduced. This allows the financial ratios ROE (return on equity) and ROA (return on assets) to be more attractive by increasing same. A very savvy (and legal) practice that raises share value even when actual market share remains level or even slightly decreases.

 

[orangecuse]

This board becomes unreadable when we lose.

Perhaps it becomes "unreadable" (to you) when we lose in the manner in which we do, with a lot of that wash, rinse, repeat feeling.

 

[Cusefan69]

I personally would feel better about the direction of the Syracuse University Football Program if I knew (which I know I never will) that Dino Babers is going to conduct an honest full blown assessment of every aspect of his program beginning on 1Dec19. He is ultimately responsible for the success or failure of the Syracuse University Football Program. For him to allow chronic problems to exist that inhibit his program from being competitive in the ACC falls directly on him. Almost the entire roster is now his recruits. I believe after 1Dec19 with no bowl this year, the remaining members of the team recruited by Shafer will have exhausted their eligibility. If his recruits are not progressing the way that is needed, that means either they are not being properly developed or they were not evaluated properly as potential recruits. In my humble opinion, I think this year especially has more to do with development than not having an eye on talent. That being said, changes have to be made to the offensive staff and especially on the defensive staff. What he does at the end of 2019 will have a direct impact on 2020 and beyond. If he is honest with himself and seeks outside the program guidance of people in the business he trusts, he will make the necessary moves that will help ensure the program trends up and not further down. If he fails to do the assessment, the program with his name attached will not be successful and that lack of success will fall directly on him. Here's to doing what needs to be done. Go Orange!!!!!

I think you need to trust that the AD knows what he is doing. Wildhack isnt some jimolk, he absolutely understands what needs to happen from his standpoint and Babers. I think we need to let that process happen. This is slightly new territory for Dino as well as this is his first hc stop longer than 3 years. He is facing adversity as a leader. He has earned the right to reset and make adjustments. He is not a dumb guy either, he will hear what Wildhack has to say, reflect and then define his plan and then will share it with Wildhack and if he feels right to the AD he will get the green light. I wager that will happen promptly after our final game.

 

[orangezen]

remember "sack Mac pack" hang in there

 

[Stern]

One 10 win season and most fans forgot how far this program has come in recent years under Dino.
One 10 win season and the vast majority of the fan base got spoiled and thought we would be Ohio St or Oklahoma every year

Dino isn't going to be let go or relieved of his duties. Syracuse will never be a "pipe-line" school where they can lose a bunch of talent and the following year a bunch of kids are just waiting to jump in, take over, and not miss a beat.

Syracuse Football with how they recruit in the ACC most years is a 5-7 win program. And every so often they will sneak up and win 9 or 10 games. That's the reality of Syracuse Football in this modern era of college football.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Really smart CEOs (and I think Dino can be one of them unlike someone we all know) believe that the best way to succeed is to surround yourself with really good people. I have no doubt he is preparing to do that come the end of this season,

I really hope so. His job will be on the line if he doesn’t.

 

[CuseOnly]

One 10 win season and most fans forgot how far this program has come in recent years under Dino.
One 10 win season and the vast majority of the fan base got spoiled and thought we would be Ohio St or Oklahoma every year

Dino isn't going to be let go or relieved of his duties. Syracuse will never be a "pipe-line" school where they can lose a bunch of talent and the following year a bunch of kids are just waiting to jump in, take over, and not miss a beat.

Syracuse Football with how they recruit in the ACC most years is a 5-7 win program. And every so often they will sneak up and win 9 or 10 games. That's the reality of Syracuse Football in this modern era of college football.

Really? How far have we come...seems to me we are right back where we were when Gerg got fired.

Marrone was 25-25
Shafer was 14-23 and ACC was 7-18 (-11)
Babers is 22-27 and ACC is 11-21 (-10)

Essentially Babers and Shafer are clones, Babers has 4 more wins because he has had 1 more year.

 

[Dinkyspond]

What makes you think that better days are ahead...we are right now historically where we have been for the better part of 40 years outside of 5-6 outlier seasons.

What has magically changed that makes me think that any year after this one will be different ?
Is SU fundamentally changing anything?

You do know the definition of insanity right? The only difference here is that the wizard behind the curtain being the SU AD is still making millions off sucker fans like us.

5 or 6 years in the last 40? SYR was a perennial top 25 team from 1987 to 2001, a 14-year period. There is no reason we can't return to that. The coaching staff has to develop players but this coaching staff hasn't proven they are able to do that.

 

[CuseOnly]

5 or 6 years in the last 40? SYR was a perennial top 25 team from 1987 to 2001, a 14-year period. There is no reason we can't return to that. The coaching staff has to develop players but this coaching staff hasn't proven they are able to do that.

Any recent evidence to support that we can return to what exactly? We had decent seasons but we weren't some powerhouse.

From 81 to 2004 (23 years we had a total of 8 8+ win seasons and exactly 2 since. So in 40 years we have only 25% (10) of those seasons be 8+ wins. Which by the way is 3 more than Rutgers.

Ped State has had 27 in that same span in a far more difficult conference. People wonder why they get better recruits, that's why, as reprehensible as they are, they still get them.

 

[orangenauburn]

bet he wouldn't be so cheery and forgiving if dino was handling his 401k.

He's not ... He's a football coach. That's the point. It's not life and death, and it's college football. It is something that is supposed to be an escape from life for a few hours a week. That's it.

 

[orangenauburn]

Really? How far have we come...seems to me we are right back where we were when Gerg got fired.

Marrone was 25-25
Shafer was 14-23 and ACC was 7-18 (-11)
Babers is 22-27 and ACC is 11-21 (-10)

Essentially Babers and Shafer are clones, Babers has 4 more wins because he has had 1 more year.

22-27 v ACC is just above 25-25 v Big East.

Marrone did an awesome job with what he faced and had.

I can't say Scott cratered us. He had horrible QB health issues.

Dino showed the growth in program year one and two with same QB health issues, then had a breakthrough in year 3. Year 4 was a step back. Let's see that step forward in year 5.

 

[CuseOnly]

22-27 v ACC is just above 25-25 v Big East.

Marrone did an awesome job with what he faced and had.

I can't say Scott cratered us. He had horrible QB health issues.

Dino showed the growth in program year one and two with same QB health issues, then had a breakthrough in year 3. Year 4 was a step back. Let's see that step forward in year 5.

Babers is 11-20 in the ACC right now and betting we end at 1-7 this year putting him at 11-21 to end this season.

2-6
2-6
6-2
1-6

Spin it any way you want but historically as I posted above we have a record of 8+ wins only about 25% of the time in the last 40 years. Did you read the part about we only have 3 more 8+ win seasons than Rutgers in the same span? Let that sink in for a minute. And they are a dumpster fire as we all know, so what does that make SU...

Babers falls right in those percentages, which honestly tells me that it isn't the coaches we hire. It's the investment that the school makes. You get out what you put in and they historically haven't put in very much.

 

[orangenauburn]

Babers is 11-20 in the ACC right now and betting we end at 1-7 this year putting him at 11-21 to end this season.

2-6
2-6
6-2
1-6

Spin it any way you want but historically as I posted above we have a record of 8+ wins only about 25% of the time in the last 40 years. Did you read the part about we only have 3 more 8+ win seasons than Rutgers in the same span? Let that sink in for a minute. And they are a dumpster fire as we all know, so what does that make SU...

Babers falls right in those percentages, which honestly tells me that it isn't the coaches we hire. It's the investment that the school makes. You get out what you put in and they historically haven't put in very much.

They have invested tens of millions on the program, and are sinking $100+m on The Dome.

It's a regression year. Next year they get 8 wins and what happens to all the angst?

 

[Dinkyspond]

Any recent evidence to support that we can return to what exactly? We had decent seasons but we weren't some powerhouse.

From 81 to 2004 (23 years we had a total of 8 8+ win seasons and exactly 2 since. So in 40 years we have only 25% (10) of those seasons be 8+ wins. Which by the way is 3 more than Rutgers.

Ped State has had 27 in that same span in a far more difficult conference. People wonder why they get better recruits, that's why, as reprehensible as they are, they still get them.

I never said "powerhouse." I don't expect powerhouse, just a good team who can occasionally sneak into the Top 25. I question your math without looking at the yearly records. We have one 8+ win (meaning at least 9 wins) season since 2004, that was 10 in 2018. You said we have two. I do not think 8+ win seasons should be the standard for SYR. A 7 win season each year is more along the expectations

 

[CuseOnly]

They have invested tens of millions on the program, and are sinking $100+m on The Dome.

It's a regression year. Next year they get 8 wins and what happens to all the angst?

I said this before, putting a roof on a building that requires a roof is not an upgrade. It's just making the building usable which they have to do. Not 1 highly rated kid is going to come here because we put a roof on a building that needed one.

The only reason they are doing a hard structure now is because they waited so long that the teflon roof is obsolete and would cost nearly $40 mil to replace it with the same roof.

Your house has a roof, if you put a new roof on it is that an upgrade? Your car has tires, if you replace the worn tires with new tires, that's not an upgrade. It's just making the car functional.

When they build a $100 million athletic facility and housing for athletes, that will be an upgrade that recruits will be interested in and might get some highly rated kids to give us a look. To date that hasn't happened, it's all been just band-aids.

 

[orangenauburn]

Syracuse
2000 - 2019
103 - 139,
two ten win seasons, two eight win season, and 1 seven win season
1987 - 1999
111 - 41 - 4,
one eleven win season, three ten win seasons, three nine win seasons, two eight win seasons, and three seven win seasons

32 years:
11 - 1
10 - 5
9 - 3
8 - 5
7 - 4
6 - 4
5 - 1
4 - 7
3 - 2
2 - 1
1 - 1

So 12/32 years are losing seasons.

Average 6.68 wins a year over that time.

 

[CuseOnly]

I never said "powerhouse." I don't expect powerhouse, just a good team who can occasionally sneak into the Top 25. I question your math without looking at the yearly records. We have one 8+ win (meaning at least 9 wins) season since 2004, that was 10 in 2018. You said we have two. I do not think 8+ win seasons should be the standard for SYR. A 7 win season each year is more along the expectations

We have 7 10+ win seasons in our history, that's it.

And you are correct, it's 9 not 8, sorry.

Historically we are mediocre

List of Syracuse Orange football seasons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SU94]

Any recent evidence to support that we can return to what exactly? We had decent seasons but we weren't some powerhouse.

From 81 to 2004 (23 years we had a total of 8 8+ win seasons and exactly 2 since. So in 40 years we have only 25% (10) of those seasons be 8+ wins. Which by the way is 3 more than Rutgers.

Ped State has had 27 in that same span in a far more difficult conference. People wonder why they get better recruits, that's why, as reprehensible as they are, they still get them.

You have a serious math problem. Or a lack of historical perspective about Syracuse Football. Or an agenda. Or all three.

In the last 40 years, including ‘19, SU has 22 winning seasons. 13 of those are seasons with 8 or more wins, which is a more impressive when you consider CFB only moved to a 12-game schedule in 2001 and the bowl structure was not as deep/generous in the 80s and 90s (example: 7-4 and no bowl in 1994).

I sense that you’d be much happier getting behind a Blue Blood program. I heard Penn State is looking for applicants. I bet you’d fit in really well there and hope (pray) that you seriously consider it.

 

[orangenauburn]

Rutgers
1987 - 1999
50 - 90 - 3
1 seven win season and 2 six win seasons
2000 - 2019
107 - 137
1 eleven win season, 3 nine, 3 eight, 1 seven, and 1 six win season

11-1
10-0
9-3
8-3
7-2
6-3
5-4
4-6
3-2
2-5
1-3
0-1

21/32 seasons with losing record

Average 4.9 wins a year

 

[CuseOnly]

You have a serious math problem. Or a lack of historical perspective about Syracuse Football. Or an agenda. Or all three.

In the last 40 years, including ‘19, SU has 22 winning seasons. 13 of those are seasons with 8 or more wins, which is a more impressive when you consider CFB only moved to a 12-game schedule in 2001 and the bowl structure was not as deep/generous in the 80s and 90s (example: 7-4 and no bowl in 1994).

I sense that you’d be much happier getting behind a Blue Blood program. I heard Penn State is looking for applicants. I bet you’d fit in really well there and hope (pray) that you seriously consider it.

You have a comprehension problem, I never said winning seasons I said 8+ and meant 9 or more wins and we have exactly 9 in the past 40 years.

No thanks, I want the team that I root for to be good. If you don't want that, that's fine.

So you like to shoot for mediocre, do you do that in your career too? Or do you try to be the best? Or do you chalk it up to your family history and say, "geez the folks that came before me weren't that successful so I guess that is just the way it is."

Especially with the money involved in college athletics, I bet they don't have an operating budget of 90+ million at SU and tell all the coaches to shoot for 6-6.

I bet they don't hang a sign at the front of the Ensley Center that says "Mediocre Is Fine By Us" - Syracuse University.

 

[P Vasiloff]

I think you need to trust that the AD knows what he is doing. Wildhack isnt some jimolk, he absolutely understands what needs to happen from his standpoint and Babers. I think we need to let that process happen. This is slightly new territory for Dino as well as this is his first hc stop longer than 3 years. He is facing adversity as a leader. He has earned the right to reset and make adjustments. He is not a dumb guy either, he will hear what Wildhack has to say, reflect and then define his plan and then will share it with Wildhack and if he feels right to the AD he will get the green light. I wager that will happen promptly after our final game.

I totally agree. I still believe in Babers and will always be a Syracuse University Football Fan. But you and I both know this program under him is at a cross road. Babers can not have another year like this one next year. That's why in my opinion what he does starting 1Dec19 will have a tremendous impact on this program going forward. I also like Wildhack and believe that Wildhack believes in Babers and will counsel and support him to help get the job done. Syracuse University also has to help by continuing to spend money on the program. This will be a very interesting off season. Lets just hope the right moves get made. Go Orange!!!!!!

 

[JeffCuse]

I will not and can not fault anyone who says a coach who has had 3 losing records in 4 years and has not seen an improvement in the quality of players we recruit should go. I will not get on a high horse and tell them they are wrong.

That being said, I am not there yet personally. I still like the guy and like what he brings and think that he has a chance to get this right. He needs to clean house and upgrade the coaching staff, AND absolutely needs to beat the war drum in the transfer portal and bring in someone who can be out new QB next year, or at the very least scare the living heck out of Tommy and get him motivated. These are not optional IMO.

If he finishes with a bad record again next year, and its 4 or 5 awful years, then I think we've hit THAT point where the seat is very hot.

 

[sufandu]

I think between DeVito, Adams, Howard, Jordan, Jackson, Harris, a healthy Nykeim Johnson, Hackett and Benson and the returning OL you should have a good offense.

I think some of the talent on the defensive side of the ball can be more productive under different coaching.

Plus, our OOC next season is extremely soft.

I agree with everything you said but let's shelve the schedule talk. Our OOC schedule was extremely soft this year, only one of our losses was OOC, and it was to a 3-8 team.

Any improvement in record will have to come from team improvement. Let's hope the conference doesn't have a bouce back year or the schedule may actually be tougher.

 

[sufandu]

Real smart CEO's know how to succeed by manipulating their stock with creative stock "buy back" techniques/incentives which elevates their stock prices. This keeps their ultimate goal, keeping shareholders, happy. The repurchased shares are absorbed by the company, and the number of outstanding shares on the market is reduced. This allows the financial ratios ROE (return on equity) and ROA (return on assets) to be more attractive by increasing same. A very savvy (and legal) practice that raises share value even when actual market share remains level or even slightly decreases.

Is this not short term strategy to hide larger problems that ultimately manifest in long term company performance?

 

[sufandu]

We have 7 10+ win seasons in our history, that's it.

And you are correct, it's 9 not 8, sorry.

Historically we are mediocre

List of Syracuse Orange football seasons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You're right historically we are mediocre. However, winning 10 in the 50's and 60's was much more difficult than it is now. Had we been able to carry our carry our 60's success into the 70's, when TV became a bigger deal, the program would have a much different national perception.