Some stats to ponder

[Cusefan0307]

So we have a winning record (.500 against FSU) against every since ACC school except the top 3 since we joined? That’s honestly not too bad.

I am totally unhappy with how things are but the above doesn’t bother me as much I don’t think

It bothers me. We should at least win 40% of our games against those schools. Right now its 25% of the time.

And despite the winning record we are losing too much to Pitt, NC State, Georgia Tech, Miami and Clemson. Old Syracuse teams beat them 3 out of 4 times. Not barely over .500.

 

[Alsacs]

So we have a winning record (.500 against FSU) against every since ACC school except the top 3 since we joined? That’s honestly not too bad.

I am totally unhappy with how things are but the above doesn’t bother me as much I don’t think

We are medicore not bad to be fair.

I would say we are 4th or 5th overall in the ACC over this timeframe.
Which speaks to how medicore the ACC has been overall.

Florida State, Syracuse would be the discussion. Does our final 4 override all the regular season success FSU has had?
FSU has an elite 8 and 2 sweet sixteens to go with all that success.
We have 1 final four and 2 sweet sixteen to go with mediocrity in the regular season.

I would lean FSU 4th Syracuse 5th.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We are medicore not bad to be fair.

I would say we are 4th or 5th overall in the ACC over this timeframe.
Which speaks to how medicore the ACC has been overall.

Florida State, Syracuse would be the discussion. Does our final 4 override all the regular season success FSU has had?
FSU has an elite 8 and 2 sweet sixteens to go with all that success.
We have 1 final four and 2 sweet sixteen to go with mediocrity in the regular season.

I would lean FSU 4th Syracuse 5th.

Notre Dame has been to 2 regional finals and has an ACC tournament title too. Now they have a 14 win ACC season. They are in the mix with us.

 

[Killdozer]

If we could just avoid Duke, NC and Virginia we would be all set. The sad thing is that Virginia hasn’t been a recruiting machine and they still kick our butts. These three teams absolutely destroy the zone.

If SU could just avoid playing 100% zone then....oh wait, that will never happen. Sorry not sure what I am even thinking when it come to SU basketball.

 

[pearl31]

Notre Dame has been to 2 regional finals and has an ACC tournament title too. Now they have a 14 win ACC season. They are in the mix with us.

And Brey seemingly (maybe by dumb luck or whatever) has figured out just the right roster construction formula between recruits (Wesley, Starling) and portal (Ryan, Atkinson) - in a way JB has not

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And Brey seemingly (maybe by dumb luck or whatever) has seemed to figure out just the right roster construction formula between recruits (Wesley, Starling) and portal (Ryan, Atkinson) - in a way JB has not

I'd be careful saying that. He's having a good year this season, but the previous season they had a losing record, and two seasons before that was another losing season.

 

[pearl31]

I'd be careful saying that. He's having a good year this season, but the previous season they had a losing record, and two seasons before that was another losing season.

"seemingly"

recruits like Wesley and Starling and xfers like Atkinson can turn things around v quickly

 

[Consigliere]

1979-2014. 13 loss seasons- 1
2015 thru 2022 13 loss seasons- 7

The only season we didn’t lose 13 was last year and we only played 26 games not 31.

Amazing.

Honestly don't understand the tendancy to minimize post season success as a series of anomalies. Making it to the Sweet Sixteen 7 of the last 10 times we have been eligible for the tournament is more of a trend than an anomaly. Actually 8 of 11 but I didn't want to use an arbitrary cut off.

Yes we'd rather be 25-6 at the end of the regular season. Yes we'd rather have a protected seed. Yes, we'd rather not be sweating out selection Sunday on the bubble. But there is something to And if it were an either/or situation I would take the tournament success every day.

 

[DCUNITED13]

There is no probably. Worst L this year was Georgetown, easily. That second half was a travesty.

Worst L of any Year would be to Georgetown. Nothing better than beating that team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Honestly don't understand the tendancy to minimize post season success as a series of anomalies. Making it to the Sweet Sixteen 7 of the last 10 times we have been eligible for the tournament is more of a trend than an anomaly. Actually 8 of 11 but I didn't want to use an arbitrary cut off.

Yes we'd rather be 25-6 at the end of the regular season. Yes we'd rather have a protected seed. Yes, we'd rather not be sweating out selection Sunday on the bubble. But there is something to And if it were an either/or situation I would take the tournament success every day.

Respect your opinion and I do agree the tournament success is not an aberration, but this year in combination with the past futility has broke me.

The coach needs to stop saying we are going to be good in the offseason and then we stink. It's happened multiple times the past 5-6 years and he's already starting it with next years class.

We are basically entering every season with a guaranteed 4-5 conference losses because we have zero shot at beating UNC/Duke or UVA. We are Syracuse. We are not NC State. This is a resume NC State should be proud of.

 

[MikeSU02]

Honestly don't understand the tendancy to minimize post season success as a series of anomalies. Making it to the Sweet Sixteen 7 of the last 10 times we have been eligible for the tournament is more of a trend than an anomaly. Actually 8 of 11 but I didn't want to use an arbitrary cut off.

Yes we'd rather be 25-6 at the end of the regular season. Yes we'd rather have a protected seed. Yes, we'd rather not be sweating out selection Sunday on the bubble. But there is something to And if it were an either/or situation I would take the tournament success every day.

I don't think anyone is minimalizing post-season success. It's awesome to experience.

The best chance at success in the tourney goes hand in hand with seeding, which goes hand in hand with regular season success. So, to give us the best shot, we need to get back to what we all, or most of us, would expect Syracuse to be.

I mean, we're not even a bubble team this year. I remember when that used to be considered outrageous.

It's that all of this is connected.

 

[Consigliere]

I don't think anyone is minimalizing post-season success. It's awesome to experience.

The best chance at success in the tourney goes hand in hand with seeding, which goes hand in hand with regular season success. So, to give us the best shot, we need to get back to what we all, or most of us, would expect Syracuse to be.
through this period of mediocrity
I mean, we're not even a bubble team this year. I remember when that used to be considered outrageous.

It's that all of this is connected.

We agree completely, but there are many media analysts, and posters here, who treat our post season success as a fluke even though there is a sustained pattern of beating the odds and advancing to the second weekend as a bottom half of the bracket seed.

Again, I'm not rationalizing or trying to discount concern over the state of the program. I think there are real concerns over recruiting misses and national perception. And I don't feel that Sweet Sixteen berths are all we should aspire to. Just think that part of the conversation has to be that we have a pretty impressive track record come March.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We are 6-11 against our former BE rivals and do not have a winning record against any of those schools since we left. Here's our record against opponents we play the most:

	W	L
UVA	3​	10​
UNC	3​	10​
duke	4​	11​
FSU	5​	5​
Louisville	4​	3​
Notre Dame	6​	4​
NC State	7​	5​
Virginia Tech	7​	4​
Wake Forest	9​	2​
Georgia Tech	6​	5​
Pitt	11​	9​
BC	15​	3​
miami	6​	5​
clemson	6​	5​
Georgetown	3​	4​
St Johns	0​	3​
Villanova	1​	2​
Uconn	2​	2​
	98​	92​

Taking out the Top 3 from the bad and the Top 2 from the good and we are 64-56. Given that most of those programs have been down, it makes the .533 W% even worse. If we can't have a higher W% against ND, Pitt, GTown, St Johns, UConn when they are down, what is going to happen if they get good again? Imagine if the ACC lived up to its potential and was Big East like? Where would we be?

 

[MikeSU02]

We agree completely, but there are many media analysts, and posters here, who treat our post season success as a fluke even though there is a sustained pattern of beating the odds and advancing to the second weekend as a bottom half of the bracket seed.

Again, I'm not rationalizing or trying to discount concern over the state of the program. I think there are real concerns over recruiting misses and national perception. And I don't feel that Sweet Sixteen berths are all we should aspire to. Just think that part of the conversation has to be that we have a pretty impressive track record come March.

I agree on that point. Listen, I think if you give JB a random team vs a lot of other coaches, that he can still outcoach them in the 40 mins it takes to play a game. For sure. And, why I'm saying that is that you give JB a draw in the tourney against a team where we're even relatively as talented with in the early rounds, I think he can still make the other guy look like a fool. And that is why it isn't an accident we make these runs. JB has still forgotten more basketball than a lot of these other guys will ever know.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We agree completely, but there are many media analysts, and posters here, who treat our post season success as a fluke even though there is a sustained pattern of beating the odds and advancing to the second weekend as a bottom half of the bracket seed.

Again, I'm not rationalizing or trying to discount concern over the state of the program. I think there are real concerns over recruiting misses and national perception. And I don't feel that Sweet Sixteen berths are all we should aspire to. Just think that part of the conversation has to be that we have a pretty impressive track record come March.

Postseason runs have been awesome but a reason they were awesome is because they weren’t expected. We haven’t had a championship level team for sometime. And most teams don’t, I get it. But it’s just a bummer, mannnn.

 

[Newhouser]

I agree on that point. Listen, I think if you give JB a random team vs a lot of other coaches, that he can still outcoach them in the 40 mins it takes to play a game. For sure. And, why I'm saying that is that you give JB a draw in the tourney against a team where we're even relatively as talented with in the early rounds, I think he can still make the other guy look like a fool. And that is why it isn't an accident we make these runs. JB has still forgotten more basketball than a lot of these other guys will ever know.

you still think that after watching this year? Just curious. I used to think that too but this year ...

 

[pearl31]

I agree on that point. Listen, I think if you give JB a random team vs a lot of other coaches, that he can still outcoach them in the 40 mins it takes to play a game. For sure. And, why I'm saying that is that you give JB a draw in the tourney against a team where we're even relatively as talented with in the early rounds, I think he can still make the other guy look like a fool. And that is why it isn't an accident we make these runs. JB has still forgotten more basketball than a lot of these other guys will ever know.

Yep.
No one who knows anything is claiming JB can't do the in-game part anymore. But unfortunately that's just one part of the overall job of being a college basketball coach. And to be a successful college basketball coach at the highest level, you've got to remain good at all the parts.

 

[RF2044]

These. These are the stats.

No serious fan of Syracuse basketball, with even an ounce of objectivity, can look at these and say that things are OK, that we should not expect better.

Man... your opinion has certainly changed significantly since our dust-up back in November.

There was a time when the general temperature of the forum was overwhelmingly in favor or "JB I trust." It's worth paying attention to that many long time JB defenders [self included, and I think you as well, given what you've posted lately] are now beginning to grumble.

It also makes the blind faith crowd seem out of synch with this long trend of decline.

 

[MikeSU02]

you still think that after watching this year? Just curious. I used to think that too but this year ...

That's fair. And, listen, I've been as vocal as anyone with my issues with JB (I don't think anyone would argue that).

I think there are a lot of issues with JB as the GM, JB with blinders for his kids, JB settling for mediocrity during the regular season lately.

But when it just comes to sheer Xs and Os when he is in that situation, when he locks in, when he *knows* he has the team that can compete on the floor, I absolutely think he can still outcoach most guys in pressure situations, especially.

It's weird, because way back when, I used to think the opposite when he was younger: Dude can coach, get talent, but then would underachieve on the big stage. Now it seems to be the opposite. I truly think he can still throw fastballs if he has the right crew on the floor and still make other coaches look like fools. Truly, I do.

 

[MSOrange]

Man... your opinion has certainly changed significantly since our dust-up back in November.

There was a time when the general temperature of the forum was overwhelmingly in favor or "JB I trust." It's worth paying attention to that many long time JB defenders [self included, and I think you as well, given what you've posted lately] are now beginning to grumble.

It also makes the blind faith crowd seem out of synch with this long trend of decline.

Exactly, it's not just the normal people who never have anything good to say that are voicing concerns.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We agree completely, but there are many media analysts, and posters here, who treat our post season success as a fluke even though there is a sustained pattern of beating the odds and advancing to the second weekend as a bottom half of the bracket seed.

Again, I'm not rationalizing or trying to discount concern over the state of the program. I think there are real concerns over recruiting misses and national perception. And I don't feel that Sweet Sixteen berths are all we should aspire to. Just think that part of the conversation has to be that we have a pretty impressive track record come March.

We want championships, not a couple wins

 

[RF2044]

We want championships, not a couple wins

Agreed [with all due respect to Consigliere].

The program slippage is palpable. But I think a segment of the fanbase has adjusted their expectations, and are rationalizing this level of performance as being "acceptable," when in actuality we aren't competitive -- in conference or nationally.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We have NOT even made it out of the ACCT Quarterfinals yet. We have won at most one game and this conference has been significantly weaker overall than the old Big East where we made like 15 tournament finals.

 

[pearl31]

Man... your opinion has certainly changed significantly since our dust-up back in November.

There was a time when the general temperature of the forum was overwhelmingly in favor or "JB I trust." It's worth paying attention to that many long time JB defenders [self included, and I think you as well, given what you've posted lately] are now beginning to grumble.

It also makes the blind faith crowd seem out of synch with this long trend of decline.

One can hold out hope for only so long.

 

[orangedave]

We want championships, not a couple wins

Doesn't everybody?