Someone tell that Wichita St. Coach

[jncuse]

I think that's an absurd standpoint to have. UMass (with Calipari) played anyone anytime, and they won games, and no one questioned their legitimacy.

If you're coming off a FF, and have a legitimately good team with a chance to get back there, sacrifice a little bit and play a no return road game that can prove you're a great team.

I made this point in a thread a while back. Wichita St's scheduling philosophy appears to be that of a mid major that wants to get treated properly on selection Sunday in terms of making the tournament. It is not scheduling to prove its a #1 seed - it is scheduling to prove its a tourney tam.

You have to remember that power conference teams get good mid majors at home in OOC and get some chances for some really nice home wins in conference. Scheduling extra road games would hurt the Shockers

Beating 2 out of the 3 (St Louis, Tennessee, and BYU) is good stuff for a bubble team. Winning all 3 is not enough to justify a #1 seed.

I'm not sure how easy it would have been for Wichita St to adjust their 2013/2014 schedule after the final 4 run. Maybe it would have been - I am not sure of the process.

 

[Knicks411]

I think it's hard to change the schedule that close to the season, and I think you make a really good point here

I made this point in a thread a while back. Wichita St's scheduling philosophy appears to be that of a mid major that wants to get treated properly on selection Sunday in terms of making the tournament. It is not scheduling to prove its a #1 seed - it is scheduling to prove its a tourney team

.

 

[jncuse]

My only response is to say re read my post. I believe you may have misread it.

I re-read it, and I did misread it Your right, there is not much of a difference in terms of accomplishments in terms of quality wins.

But I think Wichita St could have accomplished more with the same opportunity as Pitt. But its all assumption based. You never where the committee will go when faced with that.

 

[jncuse]

Let the WSU boys have their day in the sun. It's going to get cloudy for them pretty quick come March.

With 5 Final Four Teams from real mid majors the last 8 years (VCU, Butler (2), Wichita St and George Mason), I think it is a mistake to discount any mid major just because Gonzaga blew it last year.

 

[Orangemen]

I re-read it, and I did misread it Your right, there is not much of a difference in terms of accomplishments in terms of quality wins.

But I think Wichita St could have accomplished more with the same opportunity as Pitt. But its all assumption based. You never where the committee will go when faced with that.

I think you're right. I think witchita would have done better. What I find frustrating about evaluating Wichita is that they've left their resume so open to interpretation. An argument could be made that Pitt has a similar profile to them. Right of wrong, it could be made. And for a 1 seed, that's not good enough.

I think of a 1 seed as a major accomplishment. Regardless of how the tourney plays out, you can always look back and look at the 1 seeds and know who had the best seasons. If the criteria is who did you beat and where did you beat them, Wichita's resume starts and ends with at St. Louis. 15 teams will have a more impressive list of victories by the end of the regular season.

I think they are very good, maybe even great, but they won't be earning a 1 seed based on their resume, and I don't necessarily think that's right.

 

[mike32768]

Whether they deserve a #1 is of course debatable.

But Boeheim would never have rooted openly against WSU.

Class vs A55

 

[Knicks411]

Pitt doesn't have a win anywhere near close to @St. Louis though. And Tennessee at home is better than anything Pitt has also.

Fwiw, Pomeroy has Wichita 11 and Pitt 16

 

[SoBeCuse]

I agree. This team is solid schedule aside. Van Vleet would be getting way more press if it wasnt for Ennis. Kid is legit

Yep. So is Early and Baker.

 

[jordoo]

With 5 Final Four Teams from real mid majors the last 8 years (VCU, Butler (2), Wichita St and George Mason), I think it is a mistake to discount any mid major just because Gonzaga blew it last year.

Gonzaga didn't blow it the committee did IMO. Anyone could have told you they were not a 1 seed. The committee went against their stated methods and gave them a 1 seed.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Does anyone know if Wichita State tries to schedule stronger?

I am 99.9% sure they try. I heard their coach on the radio last year. Nobody wants to agree on the return trip to Koch Arena. Most big name powers struggle early in the season molding their teams and are afraid to get early losses. That is a TOUGH game to play in their house against a seasoned team early in the season.

 

[Rocco]

It's this simple IMO: if Wichita St played in the ACC, B1G or Big East... are they still undefeated at this point? No way to actually tell for sure, but I'm going to go with a big, fat NO.

 

[Orangemen]

Pitt doesn't have a win anywhere near close to @St. Louis though. And Tennessee at home is better than anything Pitt has also.

Fwiw, Pomeroy has Wichita 11 and Pitt 16

Witchitas second best win is RPI 44 at home. Pitts best win is RPI 46 at a neutral site. I think that's pretty comparable.

 

[im4cuse]

I think its more for him getting a big time job than for his recruiting. Just the way I read it, who knows though. Undoubtedly it was a strange thing to see during the season and he has to be more diplomatic than agreeing he wants us to lose that's just weak and counters his own point about them deserving a 1 seed. If he really believes that why rout for another team across the country to lose?

Bingo. This dude is out of there come April. This was a flipping job fair, sponsored by the world wide leader.

 

[jncuse]

Whether they deserve a #1 is of course debatable.

But Boeheim would never have rooted openly against WSU.

Class vs A55

I agree.

A coach should always posture for favourable seeding. Some will be fairly diplomatic, some will have strong opinions (even if they do not believe them) if asked a question about it. It's sort of like getting in a ref's ear. No issue with him answering the #1 seed question.

But that is not the same as rooting for another team (publicly)

 

[Knicks411]

I was looking at Pomeroy, which like UT a lot better.

But St. Louis is miles better than any win Pitt has. Though if you look at Pomeroy, they are pretty close. So maybe you're right...

 

[jncuse]

I think you're right. I think witchita would have done better. What I find frustrating about evaluating Wichita is that they've left their resume so open to interpretation. An argument could be made that Pitt has a similar profile to them. Right of wrong, it could be made. And for a 1 seed, that's not good enough.

I think of a 1 seed as a major accomplishment. Regardless of how the tourney plays out, you can always look back and look at the 1 seeds and know who had the best seasons. If the criteria is who did you beat and where did you beat them, Wichita's resume starts and ends with at St. Louis. 15 teams will have a more impressive list of victories by the end of the regular season.

I think they are very good, maybe even great, but they won't be earning a 1 seed based on their resume, and I don't necessarily think that's right.

One thing I will not do this year is emphatically argue that Wichita St deserves a #1. A debate can be had on both sides, and a case can be made for it.

My only clear position is that if they are undefeated no matter what they will get a #1 seed... whether it is deserved or not.

 

[jncuse]

Gonzaga didn't blow it the committee did IMO. Anyone could have told you they were not a 1 seed. The committee went against their stated methods and gave them a 1 seed.

I still believe they deserved that #1 last year. They had a much better win profile than Wichita St can accomplish, and lost to Butler on a questionable call.

Part of the reason was a weak 2 seed line. Miami had some bad losses. Bad losses matter - committee did not veer to off their methods... they would have to veer off more to justify Wichita St.

1 seeds lose from time to time in the 2nd round.

 

[jordoo]

I still believe they deserved that #1 last year. They had a much better win profile than Wichita St can accomplish, and lost to Butler on a questionable call.

1 seeds lose from time to time in the 2nd round.

I didn't think they deserved a 1 seed what were their OOC wins last year? I can't say I remember to be honest.

 

[Knicks411]

OOC they beat Oklahoma (eh), Baylor at home, OK state away, and Kansas State. Pretty good

 

[jncuse]

It's this simple IMO: if Wichita St played in the ACC, B1G or Big East... are they still undefeated at this point? No way to actually tell for sure, but I'm going to go with a big, fat NO.

They would have a loss / losses.

But they would not need to be undefeated, to be discussed as a #1 seed. 3 losses in one of those conferences would still have them in the race.

Right now its Syracuse, Arizona, Florida (only 2 losses but an empty resume), and ??

They would not be fighting us for the #1 overall seed. They would be fighting for the end of the line.

 

[jordoo]

OOC they beat Oklahoma (eh), Baylor at home, OK state away, and Kansas State. Pretty good

Not bad and they had losses to Butler and someone else right? That just doesn't make a 1 seed IMO. reward them for a great season with lots of wins by making them a protected seed in the west but not a 1.

 

[Knicks411]

Not bad and they had losses to Butler and someone else right? That just doesn't make a 1 seed IMO. reward them for a great season with lots of wins by making them a protected seed in the west but not a 1.

Yeah they lost to Illinois at home. St Mary's was a decent team and they beat them 3 times as well.

Not saying they deserved a 1, just saying those were there wins.

 

[jncuse]

OOC they beat Oklahoma (eh), Baylor at home, OK state away, and Kansas State. Pretty good

The other big thing they had was two other tourney teams in conference. They were able to beat St. Mary's and BYU on the road, and beat another one on a neutral court in their tourney.

It's 5 wins against tourney teams in conference (albeit lower end teams), Wichita St can get 0 instead of 5.

 

[jordoo]

Yeah they lost to Illinois at home. St Mary's was a decent team and they beat them 3 times as well.

Not saying they deserved a 1, just saying those were there wins.

I hear you and my arguments aren't to discredit Gonzaga or Witch St this year just to say that Gonzaga was over seeded compared to their resume last year and it appears Witch St will be this year. Both very good teams one had a great season and the other is having a great season. They should both be rewarded with protected seeds in their geographical region but with 3 or 4 seeds maybe a 2 depending on the strengths of the other top 12 teams that season.

 

[jordoo]

The other big thing they had was two other tourney teams in conference. They were able to beat St. Mary's and BYU on the road, and beat another one on a neutral court in their tourney.

It's 5 wins against tourney teams in conference (albeit lower end teams), Wichita St can get 0 instead of 5.

I think a 2 last season for Gonzaga wouldn't have bothered anyone. 3 would have been fine as well IMO. We have to wait and see how things play out with Wich St this year but if they suffer even one loss the resume just isn't there. To have any chance at a 1 seed they need to be undefeated which in and of itself should make people understand how questionable that resume is. Again this is a resume thing not a how good are they thing IMO.