Sophomore class is killing this program

[wiCuse]

Why is everyone so hard on BJ? He wasn't that highly rated out of high school (by our standards) and had to be viewed as more of a glue guy by the coaching staff. If McCullough returns I don't see how BJ doesn't transfer.

Patterson has been a major offensive disappointment in my opinion. You need to be able to hit an open shot as a guard.

 

[cuseguy]

How would you have any clue what is in BJ's best interests? That would presume that you knew what his expectations and goals coming in were and what they may have evolved into.

Do you see him playing?

If he likes SU and is fine with sitting, then it's the place for him

But with the players we have returning and he incoming freshmen, I just don't see him playing much the next two years.

It happens.

 

[Eric15]

The all time leading scorer in the Big East would like to have words with you.

Whoops my bad - 6 players. Moten topped 20 as a junior.

 

[Trueblue25]

Some of you guys act like he tried to miss or that he didn't put enough effort into making a 3. Stuff happens. He had a bad shooting day.

Nah you just read things the way you wanted to see them.

Cooneys a veteran guard. If hes not hitting threes he should adjust and find other ways to contribute. Hes much better of a player and basketball mind than he showed last night. I know you all get protective over bashing, but noones above criticism

 

[rrlbees]

Nah you just read things the way you wanted to see them. Cooneys a veteran guard. If hes not hitting threes he should adjust and find other ways to contribute. Hes much better of a player and basketball mind than he showed last night. I know you all get protective over bashing, but noones above criticism

You don't read the board much.

 

[OrangeDW]

Coleman and McCullough(both 5 star recruits) being injured has hurt the program. Ennis and Grant leaving early hurt the program.

And yes, Johnson and Patterson not being ready to really do much hurts...not sure it was unexpected though. If we had all 4 of the guys listed above, we'd be a 30+ win team and NC contender like we often have been in recent history. If we just had 2 of those guys we'd be a solid top 25 team, ACC contender, and tourney lock(provided that Ennis was one, and any of the big men was the other). It's losing all 4 of them that is really hurting...it would be awesome if guys who would otherwise be projected to be 11th-12th men were capable of stepping in and producing, but they aren't there yet. What are you going to do? They aren't that good, and I doubt they were expected to be as soph's when they were recruited. Johnson seems like your classic college "late bloomer", even though he's actually really young. That guy with length and athleticism who flies under the radar and who comes on strong as a Junior/Senior. I doubt he was recruited with the expectation that we'd need him to start games as a sophomore. Patterson...well, we KNOW what happened there. Again, a grinder who you hope works his butt off for 4 years and maybe as an upperclassman becomes a solid contriutor, like a Mike Hopkins or something. If instead he's Louie McCroskey level, oh well.(as long as he's a good egg and doesn't throw chairs at the coach)

Roberson is doing fine. He's either our best or second best rebounder. He'll be a bigtime all ACC type player by the time he's done, in my opinion.

 

[tee1222]

He's also become a very good defender and watching yesterday's game we got destroyed by their offensive put backs. His rebounding was very much needed.

Big time. After they update the conference stats, he is now tied for second with Okafor at 10.6 rebounds per. We're not getting offensive production out of many. Might as well have the rebounding and defense in the game.

 

[alphaorange]

Nah you just read things the way you wanted to see them.

Cooneys a veteran guard. If hes not hitting threes he should adjust and find other ways to contribute. Hes much better of a player and basketball mind than he showed last night. I know you all get protective over bashing, but noones above criticism

What do you think he should have done? Or what do you think he should have done that would have been within the framework of what the coach wanted?

 

[OrangeDW]

Nah you just read things the way you wanted to see them.

Cooneys a veteran guard. If hes not hitting threes he should adjust and find other ways to contribute. Hes much better of a player and basketball mind than he showed last night. I know you all get protective over bashing, but noones above criticism

Cooney has played about as well as can be expected. He clearly works hard and plays hard. He's improved his game every year. I have no problem with him.

Hard to get mad about a bad shooting game. Nobody tries to miss shots. He was 0-7, not 0-20. He was blanketed, and wasn't capable of an answer...and neither was anyone else on the squad. Limted weapons.

I was much more upset with Cooney's late game defensive breakdowns against Wake and Villanova because he knows better and has 100% control over those, than I am with a bad shooting game.

 

[doc05]

MCW and Dion are exacting some of the players who didn't blossom early. Dion and Grant showed promise in their frosh seasons but certainly hadn't turned into flowers by the end of their first season. Ennis is much more the exception than the rule.

They didn't necessarily get the minutes though their frosh year (Dion got some run but had a short lease with JB). It wasn't necessarily their time to step up. Still you could see promise in each of them and they exploded their soph year when they got the minutes and opportunity. With these guys you don't really see it yet and they have the opportunity now to shine -- but these are different types of recruits and aren't capable of just stepping in and stepping up like we have been accostomed to.

 

[Trueblue25]

What do you think he should have done? Or what do you think he should have done that would have been within the framework of what the coach wanted?

I don't know, be a guard and help create opportunities for those better suited to attack the presented defense (Rak, Gbinije and Joseph).

 

[Ghost]

Cooney has played about as well as can be expected. He clearly works hard and plays hard. He's improved his game every year. I have no problem with him.

Hard to get mad about a bad shooting game. Nobody tries to miss shots. He was 0-7, not 0-20. He was blanketed, and wasn't capable of an answer...and neither was anyone else on the squad. Limted weapons.

I was much more upset with Cooney's late game defensive breakdowns against Wake and Villanova because he knows better and has 100% control over those, than I am with a bad shooting game.

Agree with all of this.

He has improved each year, and that's about all you can ask. He's a solid player - very solid.

As always, his biggest problem is we need him to do more than he's capable of when the three is taken away. It's not like he shrugs and sulks - he's just not dynamic enough to find other ways to score/create for others. He's still improving though - last game was tough one, hopefully he responds by knocking down 5 or 6 threes next game.

 

[Cowtown]

"killing the program? ... please ...

 

[cuseincincy]

Agree entirely about the soph class. What is unfortunate is the timing in that they are not ready when they are needed. Normally I don't give any excuse about players leaving early, it happens at most of the top programs and you have to be able to deal with it. But SU lost 2 players it shouldn't have. Say all you want about the money blah blah blah bull$h!t. They weren't ready to leave. Ennis and Grant are nowhere near the players MCW & Dion were. Then subtract 2 5*'s in Coleman and McCullough and here we are. BJ's age is not an excuse. Neither is his weight. Plenty of skinny players are able to play well in D1. He's not getting it done but likely will keep getting chances, he's the only guy on the bench that can play F. Patterson is playing some pretty good defense and made a beautiful dish to Rak when he drove against Clemson. What really hurts is how really bad BJ and Buss are shooting. Can't have your bench players shooting 25%. Basically we have a 5 man team right now and 2 of them should be coming off the bench. I know many of you think freshmen shouldn't play early and like experienced players. Well get ready for next year when Richardson, Diagne and Lydon play big minutes. If they can't come in and immediately play ahead of BJ and Buss SU is in more trouble than I thought. Roberson is the only one I give a chance to staying in the rotation. He's a rebounding machine and as I've said many times he is tantalizing close to breaking out on offense (I hope). Sooner or later though he has got to stop missing such easy looks.
I really don't think it is a matter of recruiting projects so much as they recruited role players. But Obokoh and BJ are not providing even the roles they were recruited for. I would say that Buss is filling his role. The problem is SU needs more than that from him this year. I mean lets be serious, we have 8 scholarship players suiting up for the remainder of the season. The "end of the bench" is in the rotation. Now, before I go to bed here is how I see things working out next year:

PG - Joseph, Gbinije
SG - Cooney, Richardson
C - Ummm, Diagne, McCullough
PF - McCullough, Roberson, Lydon
SF - Gbinije, Richardson, Lydon

That's the 8 man rotation, 3 of them freshmen. Huge HUGE hole at the 5. I can't bring myself to project anything about Coleman but he obviously has the potential to fill that hole. Bryant would look nice there but he's just a wish right now. If have either Coleman or Bryant then Lydon falls out of the rotation but I doubt he redshirts. Patterson would be the next most likely to get minutes unless Howard shows a handle, a shot and can play enough defense. LGO!

 

[SoBeCuse]

Agree entirely about the soph class. What is unfortunate is the timing in that they are not ready when they are needed. Normally I don't give any excuse about players leaving early, it happens at most of the top programs and you have to be able to deal with it. But SU lost 2 players it shouldn't have. Say all you want about the money blah blah blah bull$h!t. They weren't ready to leave. Ennis and Grant are nowhere near the players MCW & Dion were. Then subtract 2 5*'s in Coleman and McCullough and here we are. BJ's age is not an excuse. Neither is his weight. Plenty of skinny players are able to play well in D1. He's not getting it done but likely will keep getting chances, he's the only guy on the bench that can play F. Patterson is playing some pretty good defense and made a beautiful dish to Rak when he drove against Clemson. What really hurts is how really bad BJ and Buss are shooting. Can't have your bench players shooting 25%. Basically we have a 5 man team right now and 2 of them should be coming off the bench. I know many of you think freshmen shouldn't play early and like experienced players. Well get ready for next year when Richardson, Diagne and Lydon play big minutes. If they can't come in and immediately play ahead of BJ and Buss SU is in more trouble than I thought. Roberson is the only one I give a chance to staying in the rotation. He's a rebounding machine and as I've said many times he is tantalizing close to breaking out on offense (I hope). Sooner or later though he has got to stop missing such easy looks.
I really don't think it is a matter of recruiting projects so much as they recruited role players. But Obokoh and BJ are not providing even the roles they were recruited for. I would say that Buss is filling his role. The problem is SU needs more than that from him this year. I mean lets be serious, we have 8 scholarship players suiting up for the remainder of the season. The "end of the bench" is in the rotation. Now, before I go to bed here is how I see things working out next year:

PG - Joseph, Gbinije
SG - Cooney, Richardson
C - Ummm, Diagne, McCullough
PF - McCullough, Roberson, Lydon
SF - Gbinije, Richardson, Lydon

That's the 8 man rotation, 3 of them freshmen. Huge HUGE hole at the 5. I can't bring myself to project anything about Coleman but he obviously has the potential to fill that hole. Bryant would look nice there but he's just a wish right now. If have either Coleman or Bryant then Lydon falls out of the rotation but I doubt he redshirts. Patterson would be the next most likely to get minutes unless Howard shows a handle, a shot and can play enough defense. LGO!

Excellent post.

 

[Gotothehole]

#10 PF Union, NJ
Roselle Catholic High School 6'7'' 200 89


Lower Merion High School
#17 SF 6'7'' 165 84


SG Indianapolis, IN
Brewster Academy 6'3'' 195 POST

#19 C Rochester, NY
Bishop Kearney High School 6'10'' 220


Replace the class with who? Give them some time.. Look at where they are ranked coming out of HS.

 

[alphaorange]

I don't know, be a guard and help create opportunities for those better suited to attack the presented defense (Rak, Gbinije and Joseph).

In other words, you have no idea. How would Cooney create opportunities for others if he is not hitting shots? If he is not getting and hitting shots, Rak gets no room. He is not a creator.

 

[Guinness]

Some of you guys act like he tried to miss or that he didn't put enough effort into making a 3. Stuff happens. He had a bad shooting day.

More than that the kid covering him was absolutely in his jock all day. People forget that the other team does play too and sometimes their guy is just better than your guy.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

BJ and Ron aren't ready to be big offensive contributors this season. The fact that we've lost players that have pushed them further up the rotation isn't going to suddenly make them ready. For those saying we shouldn't have to take guys that are multiple year projects...really?? When JB recruited these classes, I think his expectation would have been to have a far different rotation than what we have now. As late as this time last season (too late to do much about bringing in guys for this season) he was probably anticipating having the following guys available: PG - Ennis So. SG - Cooney RSJr Sf - Grant Jr. PF - McCullough Fr. C - Rak Sr. Bench - MGB RS Jr. Roberson (So.) Joseph (Fr.) Coleman (not sure how he figured in as he's been injured for a while) At the time they were recruited that puts BJ, Patterson and Chino pretty far down the bench. How many guys that were ready to step in and play do you think we should have been able to get to come here to sit and not play minutes. It is hard to plan in advance for unexpected player losses. This isn't the NBA where you can make a last minute trade or sign a free agent.

I agree with the above post 100%

It's not the sophomore class that is killing us it's the NBA that is killing us!

It's threads like this that make me laugh and shows how some people just don't know this program and its history.

SU has buttered it's bread by the success of its juniors and seniors, period. SU has always had a nice harmony of upper and underclassmen on it's teams. There has only been 8 freshman or sophomore's who left early for the NBA in the last 30 years. My conclusion is that we just hit a year that we weren't able to fill in the gaps because we lost players early to the NBA.

 

[Trueblue25]

In other words, you have no idea. How would Cooney create opportunities for others if he is not hitting shots? If he is not getting and hitting shots, Rak gets no room. He is not a creator.

Cooney is strong, athletic and has a decent handle. He has the ability to drive to the hoop and dish. Jb has even spoken out that he'd like to see cooney drive to the hoop more. His ability to finish is questionable, but as many have expressed on here he has a high basketball iq and can dish downlow to bigs who would be given open space by him cutting the lane. Maybe you have no idea.

 

[CorduroyG]

Cooney is strong, athletic and has a decent handle. He has the ability to drive to the hoop and dish. Jb has even spoken out that he'd like to see cooney drive to the hoop more. His ability to finish is questionable, but as many have expressed on here he has a high basketball iq and can dish downlow to bigs who would be given open space by him cutting the lane. Maybe you have no idea.

Cooney is pretty bad off the dribble and he's a god awful finisher. And he can only go right, overplay him to his right and he's got nothing. I don't see this drive and dish ability, when he drives he's usually putting it up even it he has no angle or there's guys in his face.

 

[Townie72]

Cooney is strong, athletic and has a decent handle. He has the ability to drive to the hoop and dish. Jb has even spoken out that he'd like to see cooney drive to the hoop more. His ability to finish is questionable, but as many have expressed on here he has a high basketball iq and can dish downlow to bigs who would be given open space by him cutting the lane. Maybe you have no idea.

You have to be kidding. I have seen little evidence of this. He isn't so much "driving" to the basket as he is rushing to the basket in an almost out-of-control fashion. That's why he can't make a lay-up at the end. He's not under control.

JB knows that because opponents don't respect TC's ability to go to the basket they are able to crowd him, which greatly affects his ability to make 3's. To TC's credit, he has tried to go to the basket more often. But with a 25% rate of success.

Gbinije actually can drive to the basket with some semblance of control and can dish or shoot the lay-up which usually goes in.

 

[CorduroyG]

You have to be kidding. I have seen little evidence of this. He isn't so much "driving" to the basket as he is rushing to the basket in an almost out-of-control fashion. That's why he can't make a lay-up at the end. He's not under control. JB knows that because opponents don't respect TC's ability to go to the basket they are able to crowd him, which greatly affects his ability to make 3's. To TC's credit, he has tried to go to the basket more often. But with a 25% rate of success. Gbinije actually can drive to the basket with some semblance of control and can dish or shoot the lay-up which usually goes in.

Exactly. Cooney reminds me of me driving. And that's not a good thing.

 

[Ghost]

Cooney is strong, athletic and has a decent handle. He has the ability to drive to the hoop and dish. Jb has even spoken out that he'd like to see cooney drive to the hoop more. His ability to finish is questionable, but as many have expressed on here he has a high basketball iq and can dish downlow to bigs who would be given open space by him cutting the lane. Maybe you have no idea.

I still questions his ability to drive and finish (the latter part being a huge question), but the fact that he's showing that aspect of his game is helpful. He needs to exploit the overplay, and that's how you do it. Show the man crowding you that you can go by - he has to keep showing that he is a threat to go with the blow-by. He's too easy to shut down otherwise with a plus-athlete guarding him.

I like that he's taking it more - hopefully he finishes better going forward. We shall see.

 

[Cuse_1999]

Cooney is pretty bad off the dribble and he's a god awful finisher. And he can only go right, overplay him to his right and he's got nothing. I don't see this drive and dish ability, when he drives he's usually putting it up even it he has no angle or there's guys in his face.

Agree 100%. The only time anything good comes from a Cooney drive is if he gets bailed out by a foul call. His dishes are normally turnovers. For the life of me I can't figure out why the coaches don't drill into him to pull up and shoot a 10 footer rather than driving into no man's land