Sophomore class is killing this program

[pfister1]

BJ and Ron aren't ready to be big offensive contributors this season. The fact that we've lost players that have pushed them further up the rotation isn't going to suddenly make them ready. For those saying we shouldn't have to take guys that are multiple year projects...really??

When JB recruited these classes, I think his expectation would have been to have a far different rotation than what we have now. As late as this time last season (too late to do much about bringing in guys for this season) he was probably anticipating having the following guys available:

PG - Ennis So.
SG - Cooney RSJr
Sf - Grant Jr.
PF - McCullough Fr.
C - Rak Sr.

Bench - MGB RS Jr.
Roberson (So.)
Joseph (Fr.)
Coleman (not sure how he figured in as he's been injured for a while)


At the time they were recruited that puts BJ, Patterson and Chino pretty far down the bench. How many guys that were ready to step in and play do you think we should have been able to get to come here to sit and not play minutes. It is hard to plan in advance for unexpected player losses. This isn't the NBA where you can make a last minute trade or sign a free agent.

 

[jdubs30]

Buss and Roberson both have a place here. I actually really like what Buss shown, but he's more of a 4th guard than a 3rd; some of our best drive+dishes on the year have come from Buss, and he's really good at the top of the zone for the most part. His shot may never come, but he's a good piece to have for the next 2 years.

Roberson will be a monster by his senior year; the only thing that's missing is the offense, but you gotta believe that will come; he's just a beast on the boards. Again, he's probably only ready for 15-20mpg this year, but with the CMac injury he has to play 35+ minutes now. He'll learn and get a lot better from being thrust into a role he's not ready for.

Jury still out on the other 2 (like most of you said). Just not sure where BJ fits in here, if he can't get PT now, I can't imagine him getting PT next year with CMac (probably) coming back, Richardson (could be a SG though), G, Roberson, Lydon, etc. I really hope it works out for BJ though, even if it's not here. Chino is Chino, he'll be here 4 years, he'll probably peak senior year when he averages 10mpg in a true backup role where he's strong on defense but a liability on offense; nothing wrong with that though.

 

[jdubs30]

BJ and Ron aren't ready to be big offensive contributors this season. The fact that we've lost players that have pushed them further up the rotation isn't going to suddenly make them ready. For those saying we shouldn't have to take guys that are multiple year projects...really??

When JB recruited these classes, I think his expectation would have been to have a far different rotation than what we have now. As late as this time last season (too late to do much about bringing in guys for this season) he was probably anticipating having the following guys available:

PG - Ennis So.
SG - Cooney RSJr
Sf - Grant Jr.
PF - McCullough Fr.
C - Rak Sr.

Bench - MGB RS Jr.
Roberson (So.)
Joseph (Fr.)
Coleman (not sure how he figured in as he's been injured for a while)


At the time they were recruited that puts BJ, Patterson and Chino pretty far down the bench. How many guys that were ready to step in and play do you think we should have been able to get to come here to sit and not play minutes. It is hard to plan in advance for unexpected player losses. This isn't the NBA where you can make a last minute trade or sign a free agent.

You're exactly right. We aren't Kentucky. Could you imagine trying to recruit a PG for 2014? Any PG that thought about comign here saw Ennis and Kaleb infront of them, all of sudden we look a lot less attractive. Had they know Ennis would leave, maybe it makes it easier, but it doesn't work like that.

Kids look at who's at their position now and who's committed to go to that school at their position. Like you said, that's a loaded roster that (thought) we'd have. If a kid is fringey top 100 player and sees Grant/McCullough/G/Roberson all on the roster, he's probably gonna look elsewhere. You can prepare for kids leaving or staying all you want, but it's impossible to predict. If you told people 16 months ago that Ennis would be here for 1 year and McCullough would be here for 2, I don't think many people would take that bet.

 

[Trueblue25]

And there's Cooney going 0 for from the field as a veteran junior leader.

But that's none of my business.

 

[rrlbees]

And there's Cooney going 0 for from the field as a veteran junior leader. But that's none of my business.

Some of you guys act like he tried to miss or that he didn't put enough effort into making a 3. Stuff happens. He had a bad shooting day.

 

[ORRange]

It's hard to sugar coat the numbers.
BJ/Buss career combined %
3pt 21/105 20%
fg 51/182 28%

Their numbers are so similar it's not worth the time to break them down. Also, quite of few of those 3 point attempts are wide open. I keep hoping that one of them will break out of their funk.

 

[midloviking]

I'll be blunt. I like BJ.

Me too!


Sorry for my lack of maturity, I couldn't let that go.

 

[alphaorange]

The problem is, will it ever click for him for SU? I'm losing faith that it will with each passing game..

I have no idea, but we as fans should know by now that every player who get a schollie here doesn't always end up a major contributor. It's that way at every single school. Just because we need it this year doesn't mean it will happen. People talked the same way about Rak as a sophomore. He's pretty important now, it seems.

 

[doc05]

3 of the recruits in that class were long term projected players -- you could probably say projects. We've been so used to guys just coming in and blossoming immediately when they get the minutes that we aren't used to the lack of a freshman - sophomore jump. Ennis jumped and I did expect more from Roberson offensively at this point. But the other 3 recruits were more in the 'project mold' when they were recruited.

 

[TBCuse11]

Roberson... doesnt fit with this years team. He can do nothing but rebound. We need scorers. He will be a beast in the next couple years when we have more than 2-3 guys who can make buckets.

 

[rrlbees]

Roberson... doesnt fit with this years team. He can do nothing but rebound. We need scorers. He will be a beast in the next couple years when we have more than 2-3 guys who can make buckets.

He's also become a very good defender and watching yesterday's game we got destroyed by their offensive put backs. His rebounding was very much needed.

 

[br801]

I hate to say it, but I don't think any of the 4 sophs are very good at basketball. None of them really look like they belong at a program that considers itself elite. Roberson is more of a bench guy, rotational forward who can come in and grab some boards. His offensive game is terrible and he just can't keep missing short on 80% of his jump shots. Buss is a solid driver and passer, but also can't shoot and really doesn't add the punch needed from a guard. BJ just isn't very good at this point. Chino may never contribute much. It's a really bad class and may never really add much more, or have as big an opportunity as this season.

Our offense is pretty bad this year, and I simply can't imagine how much worse it's going to be without a legit interior scorer next year.

That's really what you see when you look at Roberson?

I see an exceptionally good offensive rebounder who continues to make great strides after playing little as a freshman, struggling through injury earlier this season, and being forced into playing big minutes due to McCullough's slump and subsequent injury. He's now averaging 7 boards per game, and actually averages the same per 40 minutes as Christmas (about 11) and just as importantly, he seems to be developing into a solid zone defender. Sure, his offensive game is a work in progress, but he's shown flashes of being able to hit a mid-range jump shop and looks like he could develop into a tremendous weapon in transition. I'm certain the coaching staff is pleased with his development and happy to have him.

 

[Flacusian]

Sheesh... we enter the season with a roster which is seriously truncated by the early departure of several kids we ostensibly expected would be key contributors to this years team. We also learn that we will be without the services of a "big" who came to Syracuse much ballyhooed and anticipated but who has had their contributions and development limited by injury. We all watch the early part of the season and see that there clearly needs to be some ratcheted back expectations for this year and then our most promising recruit in nearly a decade goes down with a torn ACL.

In spite of all this we nearly pulled off an upset against Nova and by most accounts could have/ should have won the game. The team, seemingly infused by the Nova game rather than mailing it in, go on a modest win streak albeit not against the top of the conference and then have a very poor showing against a conference foe on their home court.

Subsequent to the game, some posters begin to think it's OK to eat their young and begin making premature and judgmental and ill conceived appraisals of the kids who have been thrust into roles that EVERYONE knows they are not really prepared or ready for. Perhaps some of the things noted have a kernel of truth but the harsh criticism doesn't serve anyone towards any positive end. These kids are carrying the Orange mantle for our program under less than favorable circumstances and they've done a pretty damn good job of it if you ask me. It never ceases to amaze me how people go after our players as if they are intentionally playing poorly. Some of the most emblematic players in our programs history come under fire by our own fanbase. GMAC is the perfect case in point. Now Cooney is having to be targeted with the same nonsense. These kids put enough pressure on themselves I'm sure and none of them feel good about having a game in which they are ineffective. I'm proud that they go out there and give the effort they do and have the courage to face the scrutiny they are subjected to.

Being dismissive of the sophmore class when they are viewed within the context of what was expected of them at this point in time when they were recruited is premature at best and mean spirited at worst. If any of those kids are to prosper within our program it will be far more likely if they receive our unconditional support rather than harsh and premature criticism. And I"m not saying that they can't be criticized. I'm saying that assuming they won't develop and become valuable contributors to the program and weren't worthy of being recruited is wrong.

 

[Oakland]

Actually, I think we have surprisingly few players blossoming immediately. This is one of SU's problems.

3 of the recruits in that class were long term projected players -- you could probably say projects. We've been so used to guys just coming in and blossoming immediately when they get the minutes that we aren't used to the lack of a freshman - sophomore jump. Ennis jumped and I did expect more from Roberson offensively at this point. But the other 3 recruits were more in the 'project mold' when they were recruited.

 

[tptcuse]

Being dismissive of the sophmore class when they are viewed within the context of what was expected of them at this point in time when they were recruited is premature at best and mean spirited at worst. If any of those kids are to prosper within our program it will be far more likely if they receive our unconditional support rather than harsh and premature criticism. And I"m not saying that they can't be criticized. I'm saying that assuming they won't develop and become valuable contributors to the program and weren't worthy of being recruited is wrong.

Amen! Its mind-boggling how people can put their blinders on to the unexpected loss of players and be completely unable to contextualize those losses.

 

[longislandcuse]

That's really what you see when you look at Roberson?

I see an exceptionally good offensive rebounder who continues to make great strides after playing little as a freshman, struggling through injury earlier this season, and being forced into playing big minutes due to McCullough's slump and subsequent injury. He's now averaging 7 boards per game, and actually averages the same per 40 minutes as Christmas (about 11) and just as importantly, he seems to be developing into a solid zone defender. Sure, his offensive game is a work in progress, but he's shown flashes of being able to hit a mid-range jump shop and looks like he could develop into a tremendous weapon in transition. I'm certain the coaching staff is pleased with his development and happy to have him.

What other top 25 schools would Roberson start at? He could become good and is a solid player but, right now, yea he's a bench guy.

 

[cuseguy]

I hate to chase kids out, but it would be in BJ's best interest to transfer. He'd sit out a year and still have two years.

 

[doc05]

Actually, I think we have surprisingly few players blossoming immediately. This is one of SU's problems.

Well, you can take a guy like Rak who didn't really blossom until this year -- but he still contributed. From more recent recruiting classes, Dion, MCW, Grant etc all stepped up big time when they got the minutes. This sophomore class by and large were not comprised with those type of "tier 1a/1b" recruits besides Ennis and Roberson. So it's just a bit shocking to some when they see a clear need from these guys now, and the production just isn't there. But as stated above I don't even think the staff expect the need for them to contribute to the extent we would think they should contribute this year. Losing Grant and Ennis has hurt.

 

[tptcuse]

Another point:

In practice, if things had gone as expected, these players: Ennis, Cooney, Grant, Christmas, and Coleman
would likely be practicing against:
Joseph, Gbinije, Roberson, McCullough, and Chino. With Patterson, Johnson and the walk-ons filling in for different rotations, dependent upon the upcoming opponent.

 

[Oakland]

MCW and Dion are exacting some of the players who didn't blossom early. Dion and Grant showed promise in their frosh seasons but certainly hadn't turned into flowers by the end of their first season. Ennis is much more the exception than the rule.

Well, you can take a guy like Rak who didn't really blossom until this year -- but he still contributed. From more recent recruiting classes, Dion, MCW, Grant etc all stepped up big time when they got the minutes. This sophomore class by and large were not comprised with those type of "tier 1a/1b" recruits besides Ennis and Roberson. So it's just a bit shocking to some when they see a clear need from these guys now, and the production just isn't there. But as stated above I don't even think the staff expect the need for them to contribute to the extent we would think they should contribute this year. Losing Grant and Ennis has hurt.

 

[Eric15]

He strikes me as a guy who'll put up 20+ PPG his senior year after making a big junior-senior jump like Rak and Nichols.

Only 5 players in the Boeheim era have ever averaged 20 ppg (Melo, Shumpert, Warrick, Wallace, Owens). I want nothing but the best for BJ, but I think his realistic ceiling is 10 ppg.

 

[triplethrea]

Only 5 players in the Boeheim era have ever averaged 20 ppg (Melo, Shumpert, Warrick, Wallace, Owens). I want nothing but the best for BJ, but I think his realistic ceiling is 10 ppg.

Good point. Maybe 20ppg was too ambitious. 15-20 range then. I saw "something" in him during a few non-conference games. An "it" factor. Hopefully I was right.

 

[oli44]

Only 5 players in the Boeheim era have ever averaged 20 ppg (Melo, Shumpert, Warrick, Wallace, Owens). I want nothing but the best for BJ, but I think his realistic ceiling is 10 ppg.

The all time leading scorer in the Big East would like to have words with you.

 

[pfister1]

I hate to chase kids out, but it would be in BJ's best interest to transfer. He'd sit out a year and still have two years.

How would you have any clue what is in BJ's best interests? That would presume that you knew what his expectations and goals coming in were and what they may have evolved into.

 

[RF2044]

Only 5 players in the Boeheim era have ever averaged 20 ppg (Melo, Shumpert, Warrick, Wallace, Owens). I want nothing but the best for BJ, but I think his realistic ceiling is 10 ppg.

His ceiling is higher than that. But his physical development will either hold him back or enable his potential at the collegiate level.

Really wish BJ had redshirted.