St Rose Postgame thoughts

[OrangeinDC]

The thing I’m most happy about early on and I know the opponents are bad, but the defense is going to keep them in games. They are going to be bad on offense some games, but I think the steals and good defense will keep them competitive. Recently when the team didn’t score they had no chance at all. I think that changes with this group and style of play

Agree, there are going to be good/bad games both offensively and defensively early on while they work things out.

 

[tbonezone]

competent

competent ain't gonna get you to the next level . you best be drilling deep.
and from my seat i'm watching red more than the players. he's the true freshman. how is he handling this group and his new mantle. that's more interesting to me than beating up some underfunded undermanned nobodies.

 

[bballbeadle]

I suspect we are going to experience some wild emotions as fans this year. This team is definitely a mystery in terms of what to expect. My biggest concerns are the forwards and three point shooting. LGO!

I, myself, am feeling extremely calm.

 

[AlaskaSU]

That sounds like hyperbole to me. I did watch the exhibition games. He didn’t attempt any or many threes. Maybe his shoulder injury last year did impact his shooting, but I can’t imagine he won’t be able to get it back or fix what’s going on.

If he can't hit from the line how can he hit from the arc? I guess that we will be a low scoring team. Against a tomato can we were 20% from 3 and 40% from the floor. How are we going to replace the scoring we lost? This 'we will get better' is meaningless. Every team gets better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That sounds like hyperbole to me. I did watch the exhibition games. He didn’t attempt any or many threes. Maybe his shoulder injury last year did impact his shooting, but I can’t imagine he won’t be able to get it back or fix what’s going on.

The fact that he didn’t shoot any was even more concerning. MCW struggled from the perimeter but he kept defenders honest because he would make a few occasionally.

 

[Orangezoo]

If he can't hit from the line how can he hit from the arc? I guess that we will be a low scoring team.

He was 4-5 from the line.

 

[Orangezoo]

The fact that he didn’t shoot any was even more concerning. MCW struggled from the perimeter but he kept defenders honest because he would make a few occasionally.

Yeah- I'd like to see them get him some spot up 3s and get him in the habit of taking a couple. He still hasn't done so in a game so we don't really know what that looks like. Off the bounce is not good for sure.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The fact that he didn’t shoot any was even more concerning. MCW struggled from the perimeter but he kept defenders honest because he would make a few occasionally.

MCW was our point guard. JJ is playing the 2 guard. He scored about 12 pts per last yr. We need more considering that we will get less pts from the 5 than last yr.

 

[orangefog]

Psst…Judah…

 

[Symphony Steve]

My early take is that, while we could well start slow, and struggle in Maui, we could turn into the kind of team that nobody wants to play from, say, mid-January on.

Much more optimistic about this team's potential than I was last year. It's just a matter of getting experience playing together, developing their defensive personality, and ultimately gelling.

And I'm not the most optimistic guy. We're still all gonna die, right?

 

[tee1222]

My early take is that, while we could well start slow, and struggle in Maui, we could turn into the kind of team that nobody wants to play from, say, mid-January on.

Much more optimistic about this team's potential than I was last year. It's just a matter of getting experience playing together, developing their defensive personality, and ultimately gelling.

And I'm not the most optimistic guy. We're still all gonna die, right?

Yup!

 

[Sherman20]

I guess I just don’t see it, would be nice to make the tournament but I don’t see how we’re much better than last year, if we are.

Starling still hasn’t shown his ability from high school and neither him or Judah have proved they can shoot at all, this whole “best backcourt in the nation” nonsense needs to slow down.

You’re like the only person I’m hearing that from, except for a few naysayers on here like Alaska who’ve been popping off as of late. On Dean’s Spaces thing after Daemon, most people felt like we could make the tourney. But I agree best backcourt in the nation feels a tad overblown but we should have one of the best in the ACCat least. I am confused by all the hand wringing over Starling from some Debbie Downers. He was a top 10 transfer.

 

[bballbeadle]

I’m not as worried as others. We’ll be fine and be very good and yes we’ll make the NCAA’s. We have plenty of players returning but we have many new players too and it’ll take some time to acclimate to each other. We played the 1st exhibition without Judah and most of the game without Brown. We played the 2nd one without Brown and Benny, our two PFs. Hopefully everyone is available these next 3 games and they can start to gel and everyone learns their role. The talent is there.

Please make it so!

 

[Sherman20]

If he can't hit from the line how can he hit from the arc? I guess that we will be a low scoring team. Against a tomato can we were 20% from 3 and 40% from the floor. How are we going to replace the scoring we lost? This 'we will get better' is meaningless. Every team gets better.

Jesse is a big loss, imo. It sucks that he left and he would have made us a solid top 25 team. But do you think we should have recruited Joe to stay for a fifth year instead of adding JJ? Or should we have tried to have both? If you think we should have kept Joe, you must not have been happy with Red’s off-season moves.

 

[Sherman20]

The fact that he didn’t shoot any was even more concerning. MCW struggled from the perimeter but he kept defenders honest because he would make a few occasionally.

And JJ has better form than MCW. I think he’ll be fine from 3. Maybe not the best shooter on the team but we just need him to be solid.

 

[Orangezoo]

Jesse is a big loss, imo. It sucks that he left and he would have made us a solid top 25 team. But do you think we should have recruited Joe to stay for a fifth year instead of adding JJ? Or should we have tried to have both? If you think we should have kept Joe, you must not have been happy with Red’s off-season moves.

Everyone is still locked into the JB years of SU hoops. It's what we know and see when we compare to. It's why I think it's important we take this game by game and let the new era develop. It was never going to be overnight and not going to look at all much like the previous.

 

[721Comstock]

My early take is that, while we could well start slow, and struggle in Maui, we could turn into the kind of team that nobody wants to play from, say, mid-January on.

Much more optimistic about this team's potential than I was last year. It's just a matter of getting experience playing together, developing their defensive personality, and ultimately gelling.

And I'm not the most optimistic guy. We're still all gonna die, right?

Indeed.

And, we’re all just made of water.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Jesse is a big loss, imo. It sucks that he left and he would have made us a solid top 25 team. But do you think we should have recruited Joe to stay for a fifth year instead of adding JJ? Or should we have tried to have both? If you think we should have kept Joe, you must not have been happy with Red’s off-season moves.

I am happy with Red. He was my first choice. I am also happy with his recruits. I will support him even if our season is not up to most people's expectations. We had no choice with Joe and Jesse.
Never-the-less, our best bigs are Benny and Brown. I expect Benny and Judah to hit threes. JJ and Chance are unlikely to hit threes. I hope that Cope and Cuffe will hit threes but so far I am disappointed. We shall see.

 

[jdubs30]

Surprised to be seeing a lot of negativity in this thread after two exhibition games that I think were more net positive than anything. This team surely has some deficiencies, but what team in the country doesn't? There will absolutely be some rough shooting nights but I'm not overly concerned here because I think we have enough players who can get their own in other ways. Taylor and Bell should be legitimate threats and I think there's plenty of other guys who at least can be serviceable from distance. Duke is widely considered a top 5 team but look at their roster and tell me what shooter on that squad scares you from deep. Proctor shot 32% last year on a high volume. When the rotations tighten and roles get established, I think our offense will generally be good to very good.

Rebounding... yea I can admit I'm probably pretty concerned here. I think it's fair to be. I just don't think our centers and Benny have the motor to be dominant rebounders. Athleticism on the wings is going to hurt us against top competition. It'll be really important for guys like JJ and Cope and JT/Bell to crash the boards consistently. Especially given that this team is going to look to push and get out in transition... rebounding will be a big swing skill for this team.

And then there's the defense... the biggest question mark and the utmost most critical factor to this team's success. I go back and forth on this team's defensive chops. I like our guards defensive potential a lot. The rest I'm less confident in. As mentioned above, I think a lack of athleticism on the wings and combined with motor questions will rear its ugly head at times. Copeland is the guy to me who could make this team better defensively and hope Red is preaching to him that his defense will be what gets him the most minutes. He has the potential to guard atleast three positions and do so effectively. It's hard to factor in Chance at this stage since it's anyone's guess as to when we'll see him play meaningful minutes. Rebounding I mentioned is the swing skill but rebounding is only going to matter if this team plays strong enough defense to collect those boards.

But even with these things, there are a lot of positive elements to this team. Ultimately, if I'm taking anything away from these past two games, it's that we have the most depth since likely the 2012-2013 final four team. And that's without Chance. The depth matters and it'll give us a solid early read on Red's coaching chops as to how me manages his rotations and exploits matchups based on the opposing team's personnel. Like I mentioned, defense I see as the absolute key to our season but also think how quickly JJ and Judah figure out how to play with one another effectively will be the other major key. Super excited for the season, will be critical to get some momentum in year 1 and Red knows it. Go orange!

This is a wild post. You say you’re surprised there’s so much negativity, yet you question the shooting, the rebound and defense only to say you like the depth? I actually do agree with most of what you said but to me that’s more of a negative outlook than a positive one

 

[Niastri]

I am happy with Red. He was my first choice. I am also happy with his recruits. I will support him even if our season is not up to most people's expectations. We had no choice with Joe and Jesse.
Never-the-less, our best bigs are Benny and Brown. I expect Benny and Judah to hit threes. JJ and Chance are unlikely to hit threes. I hope that Cope and Cuffe will hit threes but so far I am disappointed. We shall see.

I think the shooting fears are simultaneously valid and overblown.

We haven't a Boeheim, Rautins, Nichols, Shumpert or McNamara on this team.

We've nobody who you absolutely want taking a three for you if you're down three points and down to your last possession.

But we do have Bell, Williams and Taylor, each of whom I would give at least 50% odds of sticking a three given time and space. They are good shooters, they'll do enough. Two of them are going to be on the court most of the time we are playing, unless somebody else really steps up.

We also have Starling, Mintz and Cuffe who have demonstrated some ability to hit a three (although Cuffe was a surprise winning the the point contest). They probably won't be great, but we aren't talking Rajon Rondo type bad. They'll hit enough where teams aren't going to just let them shoot.

The other guys, Copeland and Brown, and our centers, aren't going to be expected to shoot threes. But even Brown and Copeland have demonstrated the ability, at least in practice and in highlights.

All things considered, we're probably going to get a lot of open threes, because our team wide ability to get to the basket is superior to our shooting. The open man is going to be found very often as teams hedge hard to shut off the drive. We're going to hit enough.

I'm a crazy optimist, though. We did what we were supposed to do against overmatched teams, which we haven't always done. And we did it without our full team, as Brown, Mintz and Williams are at least in our top 6. I'm assuming Westry won't really play much this calendar year, if at all.

Add in a bunch of new players, new roles, new coaches... I thought the results were pretty good considering the circumstances.

 

[OmahaCuse]

We will see how JG does at Clemson on D.

What I like seeing so far against inferior completion is we are not letting them get wide open 3’s like with the zone. Considering we have played without Brown, Hima, Williams, Mintz and Westry for all or some of the games, so far so good. Seems like this team has enough talent that on any given night someone will be hot. My only gripe is that I would prefer less 1on1, ISO, instead more movement without the ball, cutting and passing for easy dunks and layups.

In the past we have struggled with smaller teams as they picked apart or passed around zone, think those days are done with our size, athletic ability and Man D…Also like developing and seeing 10 guys play, more fun as a fan.

 

[two3zone]

Everyone is still locked into the JB years of SU hoops. It's what we know and see when we compare to. It's why I think it's important we take this game by game and let the new era develop. It was never going to be overnight and not going to look at all much like the previous.

I’m not, I’m just talking common basketball sense.

You don’t lose two of your three best players and replace them with McLeod and Starling, completely overhaul the defense and offense and all of a sudden get significantly better. Could they be better? Sure. Could they be worse? Sure.

I like the change, I like the moves and I think we’re being built up for sustained success unlike before, but there are growing pains more often than not and this team is extremely young, I don’t know why people are taking such offense to my posts.

 

[Orangezoo]

I’m not, I’m just talking common basketball sense.

You don’t lose two of your three best players and replace them with McLeod and Starling, completely overhaul the defense and offense and all of a sudden get significantly better. Could they be better? Sure. Could they be worse? Sure.

I like the change, I like the moves and I think we’re being built up for sustained success unlike before, but there are growing pains more often than not and this team is extremely young, I don’t know why people are taking such offense to my posts.

Actually I wasn't really speaking to yours tbh. I didn't gather that from your takes.

I was mainly getting at those who already have a ceiling or floor picked out after two exhibition games. We simply just don't know much of anything at this point. There are observations in the moment both good and bad but otherwise it's one game at a time honestly.

 

[Fat tire 13]

I’m not, I’m just talking common basketball sense.

You don’t lose two of your three best players and replace them with McLeod and Starling, completely overhaul the defense and offense and all of a sudden get significantly better. Could they be better? Sure. Could they be worse? Sure.

I like the change, I like the moves and I think we’re being built up for sustained success unlike before, but there are growing pains more often than not and this team is extremely young, I don’t know why people are taking such offense to my posts.

Agree 144%

People aren't realizing the growing pains of a new coach. JAB, for many years, had Cuse "punching above their weight." No losing seasons. Great seasons with no real NBA talent. As an coach, he was one of the best. Arguably that part only became a liability in the final few years.

Lots of reasons to be optimistic about Red. The offseason of Judah coming back, and transfers was a big win (besides Jesse).

The coaching will take time. We could easily lose 4-5 winnable games as he figures it out. That is reasonable and should be expected.

As a fan, if the team plays hard, and the product is exciting, that is more important. That is what will attract recruits and keep Cuse relevant.

 

[Newhouser]

judah pulled out of the draft. why ? i'd guess he was told he needs to be better from outside. he scored 20 pts last night. great. 14 from the ft line.
i would think he'd be showcasing his improved jumper over his drive.
we all know he can get into the lane and flop. saw it last year. if he wants to get himself in the draft he best develop an outside threat. and pass the ball.

Your last three words should be in bold. IF he plays at the next level it will be as a facilitator not a scorer.