Stadium Answers for Miner

[oldpinepoint]

Yes probably a PILOT agreement. State owns the property now so I'm not even sure they receive anything from that area

Or maybe it's SUNY Upstate,

 

[OttoMets]

What is keeping the city from going bankrupt is the sales tax revenue the mall is bringing, even though the county changed the formula.

The hart-Lyman proposal here would be the best by far. In the first article.

As for COR'S my guess since the OCC campus of teaching hotel and hospitality course combined with a hotel I would almost guarantee that the hotel will tax exempt from property taxes

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/post_531.html

and I heard that COR wants to expand to house up to 4,000 students there.

http://innovationtrail.org/post/developer-unveils-big-plans-syracuses-inner-harbor

There is a lot of stuff flying around right now. And it looks like some ground work has been started down there.

The Hart-Lyman proposal was something straight out of 1985. What do we want, an abandoned city street and a big box store or an enhanced street grid, retail, and hundreds of residential units? A no-brainer as far as most were concerned.

As for the hotel, expect to see a PILOT and a fully-taxable property after ten years.

 

[Orangefan1]

What's really sad is she wasn't even challenged this past election so we are stuck with poor decision making for the next 4 years. I'd like to throw a few common counselors into this conversation as well. Miner just shows she's a small time thinker. Missing out on 200 million dollars. Did anyone actually ask themselves why she wasn't included in the first place? Yeah I'll answer it because she questions projects to death with no results and she is not someone people like working with. Think about how hard she made it for Destiny USA to be built. Who cares if they didn't build it all have you seen it over there?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Think about how hard she made it for Destiny USA to be built. Who cares if they didn't build it all have you seen it over there?

She was promised 4 million additional square feet of retail, with a hotel, an aquarium, and an indoor water park.

Based on the promises Congel made, the city agreed to give him a 30 year exemption on property taxes.

Congel only delivered 800,000 additional sq ft of retail, of which probably 1/2 is still vacant.

30 years of property tax revenue sacrificed for only 800,000 sqft of extra retail? You can bet that the city finance people care.

 

[Orangefan1]

Who actually said he was done building? So because they said so publicly they are? Orangextreme what would you prefer an ugly brownfield or 800,000 square feet of a mega mall that is a destination for tourists?

 

[supp]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/01/dear_mayor_miner_heres_our_arena_vision.html

For Gross and other SU officials, the biggest problem the Dome poses isn't parking problems, operating costs, the obstacle it is to further academic expansion on the Quad, or the less than ideal set-up for basketball. The biggest problem is the lack of club seating and lounges. The new stadium will have scads of it. The info provided in the letter is less than transparent but clearly "club areas" will have a big footprint in the arena (about half the size of the retractable basketball stands seating 5K).

Gross and the chancellor want to be able to provide their donors a1st class experience. That's who this proposed stadium is for, first and foremost. Unclear if that is the plan here, but the pre-purchase of luxury suites and PSLs can also offset the costs of stadium construction. Some of the construction costs of the new Meadowlands were paid for with PSLs and club seating. The sale of naming rights should also lighten the financial burden of the state and county (or at least keep it where it is now once inevitable cost overruns are figured in). No doubt, though, that some fans in the area are going to be priced out of the market for season tickets with a new stadium.

 

[supp]

What's really sad is she wasn't even challenged this past election so we are stuck with poor decision making for the next 4 years. I'd like to throw a few common counselors into this conversation as well. Miner just shows she's a small time thinker. Missing out on 200 million dollars. Did anyone actually ask themselves why she wasn't included in the first place? Yeah I'll answer it because she questions projects to death with no results and she is not someone people like working with. Think about how hard she made it for Destiny USA to be built. Who cares if they didn't build it all have you seen it over there?

Oh boy! I don't think you're going to find any takers for this post! You really have to have an irrational hatred of Miner to turn Congel into a hero. He built a freakin' mall and made a lot of money for himself. He didn't save or transform the city or the region in any tangible way. For all the business Carousel/Destiny brought to town, it killed off an equal or greater amount.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Who actually said he was done building? So because they said so publicly they are? Orangextreme what would you prefer an ugly brownfield or 800,000 square feet of a mega mall that is a destination for tourists?

Congel himself said that he was completing only "Phase 1" of the project and he was done.

And it wasn't an ugly brownfield. It was an active parking lot for the existing mall.

 

[Bayside44]

Rutgers got 6.5 Mil over 10 years for the naming rights from High Point solutions, with it's major signage on I95. I really wouldn't add much if anything to that for us.

That being said the club features at the dome are really lacking, not sure what the upgrade should realistically be.

 

[Orangefan1]

So because my opinion is different from yours it's irrational? You are right about one thing I don't care for Miner. And I never said anything about being pro Congel, but my point is if you had looked at the property 25 years ago and look at it today did it improve our city or didn't it?

 

[Orangefan1]

Orangextreme did you actually believe him when he said he would build the entire building including all phases? or more than phase 1?

 

[CuseOnly]

Who actually said he was done building? So because they said so publicly they are? Orangextreme what would you prefer an ugly brownfield or 800,000 square feet of a mega mall that is a destination for tourists?

There was an agreement I thought after Destiny was started that there would be no more building or additions and no more tax breaks for Congel.

 

[supp]

Orangextreme did you actually believe him when he said he would build the entire building including all phases? or more than phase 1?

That's what Congel promised and that's what Bernardi and other other officials at the time signed up for when they gave him the 30-year PILOT (despite the opposition of people like Miner). Congel got rich off the deal and marginalized his competitors in the area like Wilmorite but it's highly debatable whether he did much else for Syracuse, the county, and the general business climate here.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Still not happy they would downgrade from 49K to 44K, I was firmly in favor of the new stadium... but 44K screams small time E Carolina stadium to me.

Keep the dome and renovate.

It will look less empty

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That's what Congel promised and that's what Bernardi and other other officials at the time signed up for when they gave him the 30-year PILOT (despite the opposition of people like Miner). Congel made himself very rich off the deal and marginalized his competitors in the area like Wilmorite but it's highly debatable whether he did much else for Syracuse, the county, and the general business climate here.

IDK, when I go there it is always busy.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That's what Congel promised and that's what Bernardi and other other officials at the time signed up for when they gave him the 30-year PILOT (despite the opposition of people like Miner). Congel got rich off the deal and marginalized his competitors in the area like Wilmorite but it's highly debatable whether he did much else for Syracuse, the county, and the general business climate here.

Pilot deals are almost always done. Syracuse personifies class envy.

 

[Orangefan1]

You can't be serious that it is debatable if it was better or not for the city. You just can't be. Congel is in business to make money, and he didn't have to take a chance on his community to make a state of the art mall on a brownfield. Are there a lot of billionaires doing business in Syracuse? You don't just pass on an opportunity to do business with someone with that kind of money who has lived here most of his life. Now to the other point am I upset that he didn't fulfill his promise and build all phases? yes I was upset that he didn't because he didn't hold up his end of the bargain. Doesn't mean it can't happen down the road.

 

[supp]

You can't be serious that it is debatable if it was better or not for the city. You just can't be. Congel is in business to make money, and he didn't have to take a chance on his community to make a state of the art mall on a brownfield. Are there a lot of billionaires doing business in Syracuse? You don't just pass on an opportunity to do business with someone with that kind of money who has lived here most of his life. Now to the other point am I upset that he didn't fulfill his promise and build all phases? yes I was upset that he didn't because he didn't hold up his end of the bargain. Doesn't mean it can't happen down the road.

IDK, when I go there it is always busy.

That's because there's practically nowhere else to do your shopping in the area. Congel rehabilitated a "brown field" and helped to create 6 others elsewhere. The city, county, and state helped him to monopolize the shopping trade in town. The malls that didn't have the sweetheart deal died on the vine. Good for Congel, I guess! That's good old-fashioned American free enterprise at work!

 

[OrangeDW]

Will they be able to sell beer at a new arena? Before I go any further with any thinking on this issue, I need to know this answer.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Will they be able to sell beer at a new arena? Before I go any further with any thinking on this issue, I need to know this answer.

They are not planning to install pee troughs. Does that answer your question?

 

[OrangeDW]

They are not planning to install pee troughs. Does that answer your question?

Yes, that's a good point and that's very telling.

DW wants to put the kibosh on this. This is a no go.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That's because there's practically nowhere else to do your shopping in the area. Congel rehabilitated a "brown field" and helped to create 6 others elsewhere. The city, county, and state helped him to monopolize the shopping trade in town. The malls that didn't have the sweetheart deal died on the vine. Good for Congel, I guess! That's good old-fashioned American free enterprise at work!

I know lots of people who rarely, if ever, go to Destiny. I think there are a lot of out of towners shopping there. One of my wife's friends now brings her girlfriends over from Rochester for Christmas shopping every year. They weren't going downtown or to Shoppingtown to do that.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I don't know, I love Destiny. Probably because it's a 3 minute drive from my house. But you can't deny that part of the city was a crap hole until Congel worked a deal to remove oil city. Remember the group of people that fought to keep the oil tanks there saying that our gas prices would go up if they were removed? LOL

Some people hate change, I get that. I'm not sure Miner deserves all the heat she's taking for putting the brakes on the stadium deal temporarily. I also am fairly certain that none of us know all of the details or workings behind the scenes either.

 

[Orangefan1]

40 minutes away you can go to the finger lakes to shop, there also malls and stores in liverpool and dewitt. Where did he create 6 other brownfields?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don't get the hate for Congel. I wish we had about 10 other people like him in Syracuse. Mahoney has stated that what Destiny has brought in in sales tax totally exceeds what he would have paid in taxes. I think people are slowly starting to realize what Onondaga Lake can bring to CNY. Not many cities have a lake in its back door. The potential for development is unreal. The Inner Harbor and now the west side lake development is just the beginning that could really explode. Now if they can get the stadium situation right, look out!