Stadium Answers for Miner

[CuseOnly]

Please read page 4 on property tax in the letter

They have no clue at this point if it will be taxed and my gut feeling is that state all ready owns most of the land they will have a sweetheart deal.

That is the letter from SU, Mahoney has stated publicly that the facility would be fully taxable.

 

[GoSU96]

Please read page 4 on property tax in the letter

They have no clue at this point if it will be taxed and my gut feeling is that state all ready owns most of the land they will have a sweetheart deal.

The best thing for the project is to keep the cost basis as low as possible if people are freaked out about the financing.

Which means keep land acquistion costs as low as possible, keep taxes as low as possible, keep labor as low as possible.

You do that and the same people complaining about debt will bitch about sweetheart land deals, gov't tax give aways, and labor getting screwed.

The Kennedy site his held for the most part by a private charitable trust for the benefit of SUNY Upstate. I have no idea what would be involved for the state to deed if over for an in kind contribution, which would keep financing costs down.

 

[xc84]

That's what I'm trying to do!! I'm asking!

I really don't get your point though.

Sorry. There have just been a lot of people saying things related to beer sales changing due to fictitious rules. e.g. They can't sell beer on campus (nevermind SU does it now) or They can't sell beer if they play off-campus (nevermind that lots of schools do that) or They won't have troughs so that means they won't sell beer. It just gets tiring to read (I know, I don't have to read it)

 

[retro44]

The Kennedy site his held for the most part by a private charitable trust for the benefit of SUNY Upstate. I have no idea what would be involved for the state to deed if over for an in kind contribution, which would keep financing costs down.

These are the ones....

Partners and stakeholders: Upstate Medical University, City of Syracuse Department of Economic Development, Metropolitan Development Agency, PEACE, Inc., Home Headquarters, American Friends Service Committee

 

[OrangeTarheel]

How much money is being generated by that are in the city now? Answer, Zero.

The infrastructure would be paid for by taxing the new structure and the city would be earning the sales tax revenue on it as well, just like they do from Destiny which has been said is way more than the taxes that they would be paying if they didn't get a tax break there.

I pay taxes, what do they go to...infrastructure and services I am pretty certain.

Financing means having the funds before the infrastructure goes in the ground. That typically means fund balance, which is a problem for Syracuse right now, or municipal bonds, but the city might pay a lot more if its credit rating is less than stellar (not too unusual if the city is almost broke) or private financing. The TIF financing is a way around this problem by having loans backed by the future
potential of a development. Taxes would be one way of repaying this type of loan.

 

[OttoMets]

Financing means having the funds before the infrastructure goes in the ground. That typically means fund balance, which is a problem for Syracuse right now, or municipal bonds, but the city might pay a lot more if its credit rating is less than stellar (not too unusual if the city is almost broke) or private financing. The TIF financing is a way around this problem by having loans backed by the future
potential of a development. Taxes would be one way of repaying this type of loan.

It's a nice funding mechanism, but I can't call to mind any use of TIF for a football stadium development. Problem with this type of project is that acres of surface parking won't drive up adjoining property values.

 

[GoSU96]

These are the ones...

Partners and stakeholders: Upstate Medical University, City of Syracuse Department of Economic Development, Metropolitan Development Agency, PEACE, Inc., Home Headquarters, American Friends Service Committee

I believed I was looking at the right block on the tax maps and the Upstate trust hold MOST of the land, which is what I said.

 

[KellySyracuse]

From my perspective (as someone who hasn't lived in the area full time since 1981): Congel turned an ugly (brownfield) area of Syracuse into something much easier on the eyes. Huge Retail Mall>>>Oil Tanks and Salvage Yards. His Mall has helped bring a varied choice of retail, dining and entertainment that wouldn't be here without his Mall. The Lodging industry in Onondaga County has increased to support the Mall. That is bringing in taxes. We have more Canadians and Upstate NY'ers than ever shopping in the area.

You really want to create synergy and efficiency? Put the Dome between Downtown and the Mall (Kennedy SQ works too but not as well IMHO). Link it with light rail (University, Downtown, Stadium, Mall, Baseball Stadium/regional Market/Train Station, Airport).

Industry is never coming back until NY State changes their work and tax policies. I don't see it happening as NYC is doing well in finance and could care less about Industry in Upstate.

I love this mentality, NYC was bankrupt in the 1970's and it was the prosperity of Upstate NY that bailed their ass out. NYS government, ruled by NYC and Wall St has pretty much screwed everyone that lives here. NYC residents are lucky enough to be the last ones to feel the despair.

And by the way, Congel worked his magic to clean up a brownfield but set development in Syracuse back by at least a decade while everyone waited to see what was going to happen at the mall. But hey, we're finally getting our Cheesecake Factory!!

 

[retro44]

maybe a trust had to be created as you read this


" But efforts to redevelop the rest of the property have been delayed by state regulations that made it difficult for Upstate, which is part of the State University of New York, to sell the property or enter into partnerships with private developers "

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/upstate_medical_teams_up_with.html

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Sorry. There have just been a lot of people saying things related to beer sales changing due to fictitious rules. e.g. They can't sell beer on campus (nevermind SU does it now) or They can't sell beer if they play off-campus (nevermind that lots of schools do that) or They won't have troughs so that means they won't sell beer. It just gets tiring to read (I know, I don't have to read it)

You do understand that my crack about the lack of troughs being proof that beer won't be sold was a JOKE didn't you?

Weak, perhaps, but a joke nonetheless.

 

[TexanMark]

It's a nice funding mechanism, but I can't call to mind any use of TIF for a football stadium development. Problem with this type of project is that acres of surface parking won't drive up adjoining property values.

Great point...with the Kennedy site the reality is lots of garages and few lots. If we can get light rail it would be able to move hundreds at a time.

 

[TexanMark]

I love this mentality, NYC was bankrupt in the 1970's and it was the prosperity of Upstate NY that bailed their ass out. NYS government, ruled by NYC and Wall St has pretty much screwed everyone that lives here. NYC residents are lucky enough to be the last ones to feel the despair.

And by the way, Congel worked his magic to clean up a brownfield but set development in Syracuse back by at least a decade while everyone waited to see what was going to happen at the mall. But hey, we're finally getting our Cheesecake Factory!!

Well in defense of Congel (and yes I have distrust for him) the project was slowed by typical political shenanigans with the city/county as much as Congel's Wizard of Oz drawings. Then the project almost died with the financial crisis of 07-08.

BTW, don't laugh things like the Cheesecake Factory, etc...wouldn't be here without Destiny. Today's CNY kids have a ton of entertainment options now compared to 10 years ago.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Well in defense of Congel (and yes I have distrust for him) the project was slowed by typical political shenanigans with the city/county as much as Congel's Wizard of Oz drawings. Then the project almost died with the financial crisis of 07-08.

BTW, don't laugh things like the Cheesecake Factory, etc...wouldn't be here without Destiny. Today's CNY kids have a ton of entertainment options now compared to 10 years ago.

that's my point. Rochester and Albany have seen retail growth for the past 20 years but Syracuse was stuck waiting for Destiny to become reality. In part do to the economy. But you can't convince me Congel isn't a scheister and with all of his talk about miracles he was the biggest reason that Syracuse is a decade behind every other city in the state. He talked a big game and got his tax breaks. And our political representation has been pretty dismal for too long.

 

[KellySyracuse]

By the way, Syracuse used to be the 10th largest city in the nation. Just like Syracuse University was one of the first colleges to field a football team. So for those of you that want to discount this city as being small minded and behind the times intellectually, you're not giving us enough credit. And stop reading the comments on Syracuse.com

 

[TexanMark]

By the way, Syracuse used to be the 10th largest city in the nation. Just like Syracuse University was one of the first colleges to field a football team. So for those of you that want to discount this city as being small minded and behind the times intellectually, you're not giving us enough credit. And stop reading the comments on Syracuse.com

Actually Syracuse was never in the Top 10...Buffalo was, Rochester was close but the highest Syracuse got was in the low 20s.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html

I agree that the delay in Destiny stunted retail commitments but it is doing well now.

Syracuse.com comments are 75% trash...sad some spend years there before they discover this place.

 

[TheCusian]

So the city doesn't get a dime from the dome or war memorial in property taxes - but this property would all be taxed? And the city just has to figure out infrastructure to support it? That's the hold up?

 

[KellySyracuse]

Actually Syracuse was never in the Top 10...Buffalo was, Rochester was close but the highest Syracuse got was in the low 20s.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/twps0027.html

I agree that the delay in Destiny stunted retail commitments but it is doing well now.

Syracuse.com comments are 75% trash...sad some spend years there before they discover this place.

Damn, I once did research on the city and thought for sure during the days of salt production it was in the top 10. But I cannot deny census data. In any regard, this argument makes me crazy. I want the new stadium but cannot understand why the gas pedal is at the floor and people are suddenly losing their minds over it.

 

[TexanMark]

So the city doesn't get a dime from the dome or war memorial in property taxes - but this property would all be taxed? And the city just has to figure out infrastructure to support it? That's the hold up?

I think it is about who gets the jobs.
Local vs non-local, union vs. non-union and prevailing wage or not.

 

[retro44]

I have no idea what the tax implications would have been between the COR proposal and the Hart-Lyman one, but just look what Bass Pro has done to Auburn N.Y. and other areas. They would have kept the store in Auburn as a clearance center for the Northeast.

A huge Bass pro would have generated a ton of sales tax revenue and not to mention other destination stores that would be fighting to get in on the action they generate.

Instead they will put a OCC campus west that will eventually house 4,000 students along with a hotel. GUESS WHAT!!!!! The OCC west campus academics is going to focus on Hotel hospitality and services.

Someone is getting one hell of deal there.

http://innovationtrail.org/post/developer-unveils-big-plans-syracuses-inner-harbor

 

[Crusty]

I love this mentality, NYC was bankrupt in the 1970's and it was the prosperity of Upstate NY that bailed their ass out. NYS government, ruled by NYC and Wall St has pretty much screwed everyone that lives here. NYC residents are lucky enough to be the last ones to feel the despair.

And by the way, Congel worked his magic to clean up a brownfield but set development in Syracuse back by at least a decade while everyone waited to see what was going to happen at the mall. But hey, we're finally getting our Cheesecake Factory!!

That is just so wrong its silly. My boss was the lead banker on the committee that engineered the city turnaround. NYC was brought to its knees by the city unions and a horrible economy. It was the 1974 recession and Abe Beame was the mayor. I remember my boss coming back from a meeting at city hall and telling me that during the meeting when the discussion was at its worst Beame leaned over to him and said. "Charlie, don't worry - God will provide - he always has." Beame didn't have a clue. The bankers ran the city fro, 1975 until Ed Koch was elected Mayor in 1977. His constant answer to the press was simply "We're broke." Koch simply said no to everyone on anything and got the city's finances in order.

BTW the entire country's economy including upstate sucked during that period.

Cuomo wants to make a substantial invested of hundreds of millions of downstate dollars (that's where the money comes from) in Syracuse the mayor responds with extortion to take care of her union cronies. Whose fault it that - NYC?

When CNY stops blaming everybody else for its problems they will have a chance of solving their problems Until then, the downward spiral will continue.

 

[KellySyracuse]

That is just so wrong its silly. My boss was the lead banker on the committee that engineered the city turnaround. NYC was brought to its knees by the city unions and a horrible economy. It was the 1974 recession and Abe Beame was the mayor. I remember my boss coming back from a meeting at city hall and telling me that during the meeting when the discussion was at its worst Beame leaned over to him and said. "Charlie, don't worry - God will provide - he always has." Beame didn't have a clue. The bankers ran the city fro, 1975 until Ed Koch was elected Mayor in 1977. His constant answer to the press was simply "We're broke." Koch simply said no to everyone on anything and got the city's finances in order.

BTW the entire country's economy including upstate sucked during that period.

Cuomo wants to make a substantial invested of hundreds of millions of downstate dollars (that's where the money comes from) in Syracuse the mayor responds with extortion to take care of her union cronies. Whose fault it that - NYC?

When CNY stops blaming everybody else for its problems they will have a chance of solving their problems Until then, the downward spiral will continue.

NYS and the feds loaned money to NYC to bail them out until they could balance their budget by the late 70's by hiking taxes and laying off massive amounts of people. There is a really good article here with details. The state money had to come from somewhere.

http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/95/notes/v3n1.pdf

I see no problem with Cuomo investing in upstate. Maybe he's finally figured out that you can't govern the state based on what works for NYC. He has to show that he revived upstate for when he makes his presidential bid.

 

[gocusecaz]

I think it is about who gets the jobs.
Local vs non-local, union vs. non-union and prevailing wage or not.

The same requirements were being discussed about the original convention center hotel, and we can see how many jobs were created and tax dollars generated. And around the same time the first discussions were being held about renovating the Hotel Syracuse. What a magnificent waste of time.

 

[RMH44]

NYS and the feds loaned money to NYC to bail them out until they could balance their budget by the late 70's by hiking taxes and laying off massive amounts of people. There is a really good article here with details. The state money had to come from somewhere.

http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/95/notes/v3n1.pdf

I see no problem with Cuomo investing in upstate. Maybe he's finally figured out that you can't govern the state based on what works for NYC. He has to show that he revived upstate for when he makes his presidential bid.

Two things:

You and I hope that Cuomo invests in Upstate projects but it might be a tough sell to Sheldon Silver et al. Good Ole Shelly is the single biggest road block for robust statewide economic growth.

Andy Cuomo for POTUS is a pipe dream. Michael Dukakis bad.

 

[supp]

Are you in favor of anything?

I'm in favor of thinking government that's looking to serve the interests of all its constituents. I'm against dumb people.

 

[Crusty]

I'm in favor of thinking government that's looking to serve the interests of all its constituents. I'm against dumb people.

And in this case that is exactly what?