Stealth No More: ACC Out of the Closet...

[KaiserUEO]

My first post here. I thought about splitting the ACC tournament about 9 months ago as one of the only ways to alleviate a couple problems. I'm amazed that someone might actually be thinking about it. There's a couple things that I think you must consider (you being, you yanks ) when thinking about it.

For me, you have to go back to how great the ACC tournament was. "Great" meaning that you couldn't get a ticket. "Great" meaning that they were used as the ultimate fund raising tool. That, I think, is the goal. It's one of the reasons why it's in Greensboro because it can be sold out more often. But even in Greensboro, it's difficult to sell out now. It's "easy" to get a ticket because there "were" 12 teams in the league so of course some teams that are so far away or not very good or don't have "strong" traditions just don't stick, those seats end up being sold or empty. And those seats will always be available especially for the first games. Add that it has also become more corporate... more corporate seats. So how do you make the tournament tickets hard to get while at that same time growing to 15 members? Answer: split the sites. Keep Greensboro Keep NYC and make the finals in NYC. But what about the ACC traditionalist that don't want to play in NYC? Well, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, there's a answer. You don't seed things traditionally. So however the league is broken out in the regular season, the records only seed your standing in the tournament. So the Greensboro seeds are for the traditional ACC schools and the NYC seeds are for the traditional Big East schools. Greensboro would always get UNC, NCState, Duke, WF, Clemson, UVa, FSU, GT. NYC would always get Syr, VT, BC, Miami, Lville, Pitt, ND, and XX. Two rounds to get to 2 teams that advance. I can't speak of whether the first two rounds in NYC would be hot tickets but I can guarantee that the Greensboro tickets would be golden, they would be like the old ACC tournament tickets, cherished. Unfortunately, Syracuse wouldn't ever play in Greensboro. I don't know how you would feel about that. I think maybe you might like it that way. I don't know whether the first two games could be played in MSG, probably not. Maybe Barclays. But the finals would be in MSG and would be super corporate and the highlight of ALL the conference tournaments, as it should be. I think you get a lot of bang this way. You get mini ACC and Big East tournaments, and a HUGE final two games. Otherwise I don't know how you keep the excitement of having NCState play the opener on Wednesday night in NYC or BC play the opener on Wednesday in Greensboro. What do you think? Welcome to the ACC!

no.

 

[All4SU]

It is absolutely true that New Yorkers are bigger - much bigger, is fair to say - on college basketball than college football. That makes them very odd compared to almost the entire rest of the country, but if you add basketball and ND football AND SYRACUSE FOOTBALL, you have New York in terms of college sports.

That is the reason we will see the ACC basketball tournament in NYC.

The main problem is MSG and the newest form BE. MSG is going to demand a tournament every year, and it is not going to prefer to dump the BE. And I do not see sharing the venue with the BE in a given year as good for the ACC. MSG WOULD WET THEMSELVES FOR THE CHANCE TO HAVE SYRACUSE BACK, AGAINST DUKE, UNC, LOUISVLLE, PITT, AND NOTRE DAME. THE OLD BIG EAST IS GONE. SJU, GTown, Nova and Providence/Marquette/ et al are not going to tip the needle for MSG like the ACC would.

So, the wise move would be to have the 3 parties agree to have the BE play in MSG in even years and the ACC in odd years. MSG gets an annual tournament. The BE gets to keep MSG half the time. The ACC gets to add MSG. Nobody's limelight is stolen.

A few edits and thoughts inserted above. IMHO, the problem is not MSG or the Old BE. the problem is/would be the old money ACC folks. James Robert "Jim Bob" Thurgood III would role over in his grave if the good ole ACC tourney moved to New Yawk. That's the tough sell that faces Swofford.

 

[All4SU]

I believe its 100 percent MSG. The ACC is not going to turn its back on tradition for Barclays Center. No disrespect to that venue, and, its operators, but, if we leave the comforts of Greensboro/Charlotte/Atlanta, its going to be for MSG.

Agreed. The ACC does not want to play off Broadway. It's MSG or nothing.

 

[Texas Otto]

Why are we discussing the ACC hoops tourney on the football board?

 

[cpatrocks]

My first post here. I thought about splitting the ACC tournament about 9 months ago as one of the only ways to alleviate a couple problems. I'm amazed that someone might actually be thinking about it. There's a couple things that I think you must consider (you being, you yanks ) when thinking about it.

For me, you have to go back to how great the ACC tournament was. "Great" meaning that you couldn't get a ticket. "Great" meaning that they were used as the ultimate fund raising tool. That, I think, is the goal. It's one of the reasons why it's in Greensboro because it can be sold out more often. But even in Greensboro, it's difficult to sell out now. It's "easy" to get a ticket because there "were" 12 teams in the league so of course some teams that are so far away or not very good or don't have "strong" traditions just don't stick, those seats end up being sold or empty. And those seats will always be available especially for the first games. Add that it has also become more corporate... more corporate seats. So how do you make the tournament tickets hard to get while at that same time growing to 15 members? Answer: split the sites. Keep Greensboro Keep NYC and make the finals in NYC. But what about the ACC traditionalist that don't want to play in NYC? Well, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, there's a answer. You don't seed things traditionally. So however the league is broken out in the regular season, the records only seed your standing in the tournament. So the Greensboro seeds are for the traditional ACC schools and the NYC seeds are for the traditional Big East schools. Greensboro would always get UNC, NCState, Duke, WF, Clemson, UVa, FSU, GT. NYC would always get Syr, VT, BC, Miami, Lville, Pitt, ND, and XX. Two rounds to get to 2 teams that advance. I can't speak of whether the first two rounds in NYC would be hot tickets but I can guarantee that the Greensboro tickets would be golden, they would be like the old ACC tournament tickets, cherished. Unfortunately, Syracuse wouldn't ever play in Greensboro. I don't know how you would feel about that. I think maybe you might like it that way. I don't know whether the first two games could be played in MSG, probably not. Maybe Barclays. But the finals would be in MSG and would be super corporate and the highlight of ALL the conference tournaments, as it should be. I think you get a lot of bang this way. You get mini ACC and Big East tournaments, and a HUGE final two games. Otherwise I don't know how you keep the excitement of having NCState play the opener on Wednesday night in NYC or BC play the opener on Wednesday in Greensboro. What do you think? Welcome to the ACC!

While I like the idea of playing in NYC way more than Greensboro...having Duke and NC on the other side of the draw every year would blow...and I don't think ESPN would go for that setup.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Why are we discussing the ACC hoops tourney on the football board?

well, a quick peak at the active threads here shows we have:

3, yes fluckin 3 on video games, 2 on former players from 10 years ago and 1 of those threads is two-parter rehash...part I from 2000 on whether said player shouldve had his redshirt burned and part II from 2003 with hindsight, 1 on hotdogs, 1 on golf and 1 with a new twist on the hoop boards classic 'whos your favorite player who parted his hair to the right?'...but this time with the tag line 'which game do you want to win the most?' queue DC...whoop de damn do.

and then i gave up.

id say having the ACCT thread on the wrong board is the least of our problems....

:bang::bang: :bang:

Oh Lord

 

[Texas Otto]

well, a quick peak at the active threads here shows we have:

3, yes fluckin 3 on video games, 2 on former players from 10 years ago and 1 of those threads is two-parter rehash...part I from 2000 on whether said player shouldve had his redshirt burned and part II from 2003 with hindsight, 1 on hotdogs, 1 on golf and 1 with a new twist on the hoop boards classic 'whos your favorite player who parted his hair to the right?'...but this time with the tag line 'which game do you want to win the most?' queue DC...whoop de damn do.

and then i gave up.

id say having the ACCT thread on the wrong board is the least of our problems....

:bang::bang: :bang:

Oh Lord

They are all equally irritating to me :bat::bat::bat::bat:

 

[cuseincincy]

Most of this thread is conjecture by former Big East fans (also called Syracuse fans) that are a little stuck on themselves and the tradition of the Big East tournament and Madison Square Garden. I get it. I've been there and its a blast. But the ACC has no tradition to uphold in NYC say nothing about MSG. Sure MSG has tradition over Barclays but in 2013 who else cares. Barclays is hip, shiny and new. And it is just as realistic as MSG. "Tradition" will have no impact on which arena the ACC ends up in ($$$) . The idea of a split tournament between G'Boro and NYC is stupid. It's a pipe dream of those who want this to happen so badly they'll think of any possible scenario. But who would go to G'boro if they knew it wasn't for the whole tournament? I don't think even the people of Greensboro would support it still. And who would buy tix for MSG in advance if there was a chance their team wouldn't make it there and they wouldn't know until a day or so in advance. First rounds on home courts would make more sense (still a bad idea). And Swofford clearly stated that NYC was only in play as part of the "bounce" rotation and didn't say anything about MSG. This is not ND, Pitt and SU's conference and won't ever be. We joined the ACC, the ACC did not join SU, Pitt, Lou and ND. I honestly do not think we will ever see the ACC tournament permanently in NYC or MSG. It doesn't really make any sense. And for those who say the ACC can't be the #1 basketball conference unless it moves its tourney to NYC I ask, Is the AAC or the A-10 going to be a better conference then the ACC because they play their tournament in NYC? (Hint: the anwer is No F N Way!) So get off your arrogant north eastern egocentric vison of the world and sniff some reality. SU will be playing in the best basketball conference in the country and will have to conquer venues in Greensboro, Charlotte and Atlanta if they want to be the best in the conference. With a little luck they'll bounce through NYC every few years so we can relive the glory we have enjoyed as the Beast of the East.

 

[baggerbob]

The one thing left out is this is a new ACC, North Carolina, and Virginia may have 6 teams, and run the conference for years, but that is what caused Florida St, Clemson, to look elsewhere. Those 2 states only have 17,937,940 people, by contrast , Florida, and New York have over 19,000,000 each. The 9 teams outside of North Carolina, and Virginia have a population of 83,858,926 so you do whatever is in their best interest. Of the 15 schools for the 2014 season, 8 came after 1990.

 

[texasorange]

Manhattan vs. Brooklyn? Give me Manhattan!

 

[Resonator]

The one thing left out is this is a new ACC, North Carolina, and Virginia may have 6 teams, and run the conference for years, but that is what caused Florida St, Clemson, to look elsewhere. Those 2 states only have 17,937,940 people, by contrast , Florida, and New York have over 19,000,000 each. The 9 teams outside of North Carolina, and Virginia have a population of 83,858,926 so you do whatever is in their best interest. Of the 15 schools for the 2014 season, 8 came after 1990.

What caused FSU and Clemson to look elsewhere was the attempt by UNC and Duke to try and push UConn into the league. They DID NOT want another basketball-focused school. They wanted a school where football mattered. One that had been successful in recent times. Louisville had that over UConn in spades. Truthfully, UL was the best of both worlds.

 

[RandygoCuse]

What is the main advantage to the tourney being at MSG (or Barclay)? Does the presence in NYC give us a recruting edge? Will more people watch the tournament (and rest of the ACC games) on TV if it is in New York? Will we be able to sell more seats?

 

[orangepassion]

What is the main advantage to the tourney being at MSG (or Barclay)? Does the presence in NYC give us a recruting edge? Will more people watch the tournament (and rest of the ACC games) on TV if it is in New York? Will we be able to sell more seats?

In my opinion, B. Being in Madison Square Garden gives great exposure to the tournament. It could also possibly help some w/ recruiting playing a tournament every in the #1 media market in the world. heck, Johnny Flynn practically became a top 5 pick just from that tournament

 

[cuseincincy]

In my opinion, B. Being in Madison Square Garden gives great exposure to the tournament. It could also possibly help some w/ recruiting playing a tournament every in the #1 media market in the world. heck, Johnny Flynn practically became a top 5 pick just from that tournament

Exposure to who? The vast majority of people exposed to the tournament are exposed via television. That kind of makes the buildign and/or locale irrelevant, its the game on the floor. I'll give you a little bit for the recruiting tht it would be a small benefit. But the AAc and A-10 teams are not going to get better recruits than the ACC teams simply because they play their games in the #1 media market in the world. Doesn't seem to help St Johns, Fordham, Columbia, Manhattan, NYU, NJ State, LIU, or Wagner be relavant and they are located in and play over 1/2 their games in NYC. And Jonny Flynn's play in that tournament on national TV made him a top pick, not the fact it was played in MSG or NYC.
One more point, its nice that the NCAA tournament is returning to NYC but it has done very well despite not having played in NYC since 1961.

 

[Bayside44]

Exposure to who? The vast majority of people exposed to the tournament are exposed via television. That kind of makes the buildign and/or locale irrelevant, its the game on the floor. I'll give you a little bit for the recruiting tht it would be a small benefit. But the AAc and A-10 teams are not going to get better recruits than the ACC teams simply because they play their games in the #1 media market in the world. Doesn't seem to help St Johns, Fordham, Columbia, Manhattan, NYU, NJ State, LIU, or Wagner be relavant and they are located in and play over 1/2 their games in NYC. And Jonny Flynn's play in that tournament on national TV made him a top pick, not the fact it was played in MSG or NYC.
One more point, its nice that the NCAA tournament is returning to NYC but it has done very well despite not having played in NYC since 1961.

All the big media and money types that work and live in NYC would attend, and get the ACC more in that world. More corporate sponsorships, more big media advocates, etc. That ain't happening in Greensboro.

 

[All4SU]

So get off your arrogant north eastern egocentric vison of the world and sniff some reality.

LOL. Don't hold back, Cincy. Tell us what you really think!

 

[omniorange]

Posters are focusing on the minutae and missing the bigger picture.

It's about identity and branding. Pure and simple. Trying to get into the nitty gritty of why it should or shouldn't is pointless, imho.

I'll ask the same question both Coach K and JB have asked in the past.

What would the greatest basketball league in the history of college athletics do?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[orangepassion]

Exposure to who? The vast majority of people exposed to the tournament are exposed via television. That kind of makes the buildign and/or locale irrelevant, its the game on the floor. I'll give you a little bit for the recruiting tht it would be a small benefit. But the AAc and A-10 teams are not going to get better recruits than the ACC teams simply because they play their games in the #1 media market in the world. Doesn't seem to help St Johns, Fordham, Columbia, Manhattan, NYU, NJ State, LIU, or Wagner be relavant and they are located in and play over 1/2 their games in NYC. And Jonny Flynn's play in that tournament on national TV made him a top pick, not the fact it was played in MSG or NYC.
One more point, its nice that the NCAA tournament is returning to NYC but it has done very well despite not having played in NYC since 1961.

Media exposure-Being in the Garden brings cache

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Media exposure-Being in the Garden brings cache

Cache, and cash.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Posters are focusing on the minutae and missing the bigger picture.

It's about identity and branding. Pure and simple. Trying to get into the nitty gritty of why it should or shouldn't is pointless, imho.

I'll ask the same question both Coach K and JB have asked in the past.

What would the greatest basketball league in the history of college athletics do?

Cheers,
Neil

If it will help, I'm all for it. But I don't think it is pointless to ask if and how it will help. I would think that big media types no what kind of exposure the ACCT brings. I would hope that we would not need to bring it to NY to get their attention.

 

[cuseincincy]

If it will help, I'm all for it. But I don't think it is pointless to ask if and how it will help. I would think that big media types no what kind of exposure the ACCT brings. I would hope that we would not need to bring it to NY to get their attention.

No no no! They will only pay attention if it is in NYC and MSG, get that through your skull! That is why the NCAA Tournament has been so under the radar and has gotten no exposure since 1961! :bang:

 

[KaiserUEO]

No no no! They will only pay attention if it is in NYC and MSG, get that through your skull! That is why the NCAA Tournament has been so under the radar and has gotten no exposure since 1961! :bang:

pathetic argument point.

 

[orangepassion]

No no no! They will only pay attention if it is in NYC and MSG, get that through your skull! That is why the NCAA Tournament has been so under the radar and has gotten no exposure since 1961! :bang:

Okay...

 

[DownTheField]

If it will help, I'm all for it. But I don't think it is pointless to ask if and how it will help. I would think that big media types no what kind of exposure the ACCT brings. I would hope that we would not need to bring it to NY to get their attention.

NYC is a big event town and that's what the BET was and the ACCT will be. Most of the media execs, high rollers, celebs, etc. that could take a cab to MSG are not going to be flying to Greensboro for a basketball tournament. There's a certain excitement about seeing Bill Clinton, Spike Lee or any other number of people that show up for a game in The Garden.

And why is cuseincincy so angry?

 

[SUfaninAZ]

MSG>Greenboro plain and simple. Now lock this thread.