Stealth No More: ACC Out of the Closet...

[orange79]

I don't see a split tournament working at all. Its either all in Greensboro, or, all at MSG.

While I am for sure an ACC traditionalist, wanting the ACCT to still be held in venues where we've held it before...Greensboro, Charlotte, and, Atlanta...I know this is not the ACC I grew up watching.

So, the league has to do whats best for ALL members. If that means moving it to MSG on a permanent basis, so be it. We will deal with it.

Stop being so reasonable.

We were told you wouldn't be.

 

[All4SU]

Thanks for the update Arb!! If there is going to be a split site tourney, I have an acceptable model for fans and MSG.

Teams 6-15 play on a Tuesday in Greensboro (6/15, 7/14, 8/11, 9/10). Play quarters, semis, and finals at MSG starting Thursday. This gives top teams with a bye a real advantage unlike prior BE tourneys. The big time hoop schools will play in NYC and their fans will buy the tickets. The quarterfinals are a great day for hoop fans and for TV watchers. ACC misses a big opportunity if it plays quarters in Greensboro.

The solution is simple. The ACC plays a first round in Greensboro. Then Syracuse, Duke, UNC, Notre Dame, Pitt, Louisville, NCSt, and one other team play in MSG.

 

[All4SU]

Pods of 5 yields a perfect 18 game schedule. Play everyone in your pod twice, then a home pod and an away pod. Winner of each pod plus the best runner up go to MSG with BYES. Thats your top 4. Games in Greensboro have to get down to FOUR team and reseed to match the top 4. Eight teams...four games Friday, semis on Sat, championship on Sunday.

 

[longtimefan]

Pods of 5 yields a perfect 18 game schedule. Play everyone in your pod twice, then a home pod and an away pod. Winner of each pod plus the best runner up go to MSG with BYES. Thats your top 4. Games in Greensboro have to get down to FOUR team and reseed to match the top 4. Eight teams...four games Friday, semis on Sat, championship on Sunday.

Actually, Swofford has publicly stated that the league is considering the Sat night final. Sunday finals face a lot of competition from other leagues and the Selection Sunday excitement. Plus, Saturday night sure worked for the (real) Big East.

 

[Jake]

A couple of points.

I don't know if the big east Catholics have a Saturday final guarantee in their contract.

I could see that conference wrapping up on Friday.., giving the possibility of an acc Saturday final( which the entire conference would approve). The only question would be if the ACC semis could be held at the garden on the same day as the big east finals. Don't see any reason why not - the big east does separate Thursday sessions now.

The Greensboro games would just be "the road to NYC"...how ing cool would that be!?!?!

Ans: Very cool!

 

[Btstimpy]

A couple of points.

I don't know if the big east Catholics have a Saturday final guarantee in their contract.

I could see that conference wrapping up on Friday.., giving the possibility of an acc Saturday final( which the entire conference would approve). The only question would be if the ACC semis could be held at the garden on the same day as the big east finals. Don't see any reason why not - the big east does separate Thursday sessions now.

The Greensboro games would just be "the road to NYC"...how cool would that be!?!?!

Ans: Very cool!

The NIT might object, but it would be cool and a good marketing opportunity for the tournament.

 

[orangepassion]

A couple of points.

I don't know if the big east Catholics have a Saturday final guarantee in their contract.

I could see that conference wrapping up on Friday.., giving the possibility of an acc Saturday final( which the entire conference would approve). The only question would be if the ACC semis could be held at the garden on the same day as the big east finals. Don't see any reason why not - the big east does separate Thursday sessions now.

The Greensboro games would just be "the road to NYC"...how cool would that be!?!?!

Ans: Very cool!

You could have the Semis on Saturday and Final on Sunday

 

[Resonator]

I think Swofford is going to steer the ship in that direction. I know he has stated that it's up to the presidents of the universities to decide, but I have to think that only goes so far. My guess is that he proposes two business plans to the member schools with full pro and con analysis and it will come down to two things: $$$ and keeping the BiG out of NYC. This is still a chess match, and tradition will take a back seat to conference stability and the almighty dollar.

I would wager that the ACC Tourney will be in MSG by 2016, and the decision will be unanimous.

Agree totally. Its in the ACC's best interests to move it there. There will be complaints and griping from a lot of the old guard, but, once they see the benefits of MSG, they'll come around.

Maybe this will force the NC schools to restart the Big Four Tournament. I'd REALLY like that.

From an outsider's perspective, NYC is a HUGE college hoops town, and, we'll have the best league tournament playing there.

 

[Resonator]

Glad you're on our board, what all of the fans of the conference, not just in North Carolina need to realize is, the conference just added Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Partial Notre Dame. Its not enough just to survive as one of the 5, but we must shoot to be the best in everything Football, Basketball, Baseball, Lacrosse, Golf etc. The goal has to be when fans of any college sport think of their sport, they need to think ACC. That takes care of the dollars, and the future stability, not holding onto the past, but the [ Glorious Future Of The ACC ]. Turning 67 in a week makes me look at the future as bright, the past is there in the record books, the future has a brand new canvas to create a better picture.

Well brother, I turned the big 5-0 back in February, so, I can see where you're coming from. And, I agree totally. The ACC has the opportunity of a lifetime. It just has to go and grab it. Its all down to all 15 of our members performing on the field, and, court. If we do that, the future will take care of itself.

 

[Resonator]

Stop being so reasonable.

We were told you wouldn't be.

LOL...sorry to disappoint you. If you go to any of the NC schools' boards after a decision to move the ACCT to MSG is made, you'll find plenty of unreasonable folks.

 

[Resonator]

More good news. The ACC hoops Tourney in NYC at MSG would be gigantic! After a few short years in NYC, most ACC traditionalists would forget that their tourney was ever held in ... where was it?

Respectfully disagree. And, show at least a little respect towards GREENSBORO.

Just helping you remember the city's name is all...lol.

Greensboro is home to the ACCT. We will NEVER forget what that great old arena means to the history of this league. But, we have a great future ahead of us. And, NYC is in the league's plans. I will miss G'boro for sure. But, NYC awaits with a great new history to be written.

 

[texasorange]

Well brother, I turned the big 5-0 back in February, so, I can see where you're coming from. And, I agree totally. The ACC has the opportunity of a lifetime. It just has to go and grab it. Its all down to all 15 of our members performing on the field, and, court. If we do that, the future will take care of itself.

Turning 51 on July 28th myself and darn happy to be in the ACC!!

 

[KaiserUEO]

im done being concerned about the ACCT and NYC.

its coming.

likely the last 2 days to start, then all of it once the mid-majors realize they dont want to be on the hook for all the empty seats the Garden will be sporting for their tourny and they move to smaller, better fitting locations.

it will work out great for the Garden too as the other ACC bigfish will all want to start pulling a 'Syracuse or dook' and play a game or 2 there before march.

sorry to stick a hoop only post in here on the football board.

now back to your regularly scheduled private convsersations, yet done in public...about video games and such. :noidea: :crazy:

Oh Lord

 

[WickedOrange]

ACC continues to explore tournament in New York
Nicole Auerbach, USA TODAY Sports 5:41 p.m. EDT July 1, 2013

NEW YORK — Atlantic Coast Conference officials were clear why they chose New York City as the location for the official kickoff event for their new-look, 15-team league.

"This is a very prominent city from a media standpoint, from a sports standpoint," ACC commissioner John Swofford said Monday. "It has not been in our footprint in our past, but it is now, as of today. We want to treat it with the appropriate level of importance we think it has."


With the ACC officially adding Syracuse and Pittsburgh in all sports and Notre Dame in all sports but football, the league is making it a priority to make its presence felt in New York City.

The next step? Playing in New York City. Ideally for the ACC tournament.

"If you're going to be the best basketball conference, you have to rotate through New York City," Notre Dame men's basketball coach Mike Brey said. "I will be confident that we'll get through here. I don't know how long. Obviously, we're in Greensboro, (N.C.) for two more years. But I think it's something that's going to have to happen given how this league has changed as of today."


Syracuse basketball coach Jim Boeheim, Virginia Tech football coach Frank Beamer, former Pitt football All-American Larry Fitzgerald, ACC commissioner John Swofford, Florida State football coach Jimbo Fisher, and Notre Dame basketball coach Mike Brey attend the ACC press conference at the Nasdaq Marketsite.(Photo: Debby Wong, USA TODAY Sports)
There are a few roadblocks to the ACC fulfilling its desire of holding its postseason tournament in NYC: the two arenas are already spoken for. The Big East will continue to host its postseason tournament at Madison Square Garden, and the Atlantic 10 will remain at the Brooklyn's Barclays Center, which opened last year, through 2017.

So, even if the ACC schools decide they'd like to rotate the postseason basketball tournament through New York City, it may not be for awhile.

"We've been having this discussion for over a year now, and it's been a very thorough one," Swofford said. "There are still what I would call venue availability questions that we don't have answers for yet. As soon as we have those answers, the sooner our schools can make a decision. (The decision) needs to be made reasonably soon because you've got to be reserving arenas, and maybe in terms of the timing, you've also got to be reserving hotel space."

Whenever talk of changing the tournament's site has come up during the past few months, ACC officials agreed on one point. It remain likely that the ACC will continue to adhere to the philosophy it has relied on with its tournament all these years: Greensboro will host most of the tournaments, but every few years, the event will bounce out to another area within the ACC footprint. Greensboro is where the conference was founded, and it remains home to the league office. So even if New York is chosen to host the tournament, it would likely be one of the "bounce out" sites – to "rotate through," as Brey said – not a mainstay.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2013/07/01/tournament-new-york-city/2480831/

 

[phil77]

If you only want to bring 8 teams to NYC, you have to eliminate 7 teams before then.


Tues in NC:
10 vs 15
11 vs 14
12 vs 13.

Wed in NC:
5 vs (12/13)
6 vs (11/14)
7 vs (10/15)
8 vs 9.

Thur in NYC:
1 vs (8/9)
2 vs (7/10/15)
3 vs (6/11/14)
4 vs (5/12/13)

Friday OFF

Sat in NYC:
Semifinals

Sun in NYC:
Finals.

My changes above...
This way they only send 4 teams to NY. Have the Catholic 7 play their final on Friday night. Then it is "ACC Weekend @ MSG".

 

[WickedOrange]

The ACC needs to be aggressive and go all in for the tournament in NYC, with a Saturday night final. Anything less does not maximize one of conference's natural advantages. The dissenters can go play in Chicago.

 

[buffalorange]

Interesting concept with the BB Tourney. I am guessing that the elimination rounds would be played in GSO to keep those folks happy? Scheduling would be interesting as the ACC always played the final game on Sunday.

Is it possible that NYC means the Barclays Center rather than MSG? Atlantic 10 has its tournament there now.

 

[Resonator]

Turning 51 on July 28th myself and darn happy to be in the ACC!!

Early Happy Birthday Wishes, my friend.

Kickoff cannot get here fast enough, so, the year as a whole can begin.

 

[Resonator]

Is it possible that NYC means the Barclays Center rather than MSG? Atlantic 10 has its tournament there now.

I believe its 100 percent MSG. The ACC is not going to turn its back on tradition for Barclays Center. No disrespect to that venue, and, its operators, but, if we leave the comforts of Greensboro/Charlotte/Atlanta, its going to be for MSG.

 

[WoadBlue]

It's pretty obvious that something's up when you send all the ACC mascots cruising down the Hudson River and spending all day running around Manhattan with their photos flashing in Times Square that more is up than a bowl game and the new members. The ACC wants a New York presence, and New Yorkers care more about college basketball than they do college football.

It is absolutely true that New Yorkers are bigger - much bigger, is fair to say - on college basketball than college football. That makes them very odd compared to almost the entire rest of the country, but if you add basketball and ND football, you have New York in terms of college sports.

That is the reason we will see the ACC basketball tournament in NYC.

The main problem is MSG and the newest form BE. MSG is going to demand a tournament every year, and it is not going to prefer to dump the BE. And I do not see sharing the venue with the BE in a given year as good for the ACC.

So, the wise move would be to have the 3 parties agree to have the BE play in MSG in even years and the ACC in odd years. MSG gets an annual tournament. The BE gets to keep MSG half the time. The ACC gets to add MSG. Nobody's limelight is stolen.

 

[orange79]

It is absolutely true that New Yorkers are bigger - much bigger, is fair to say - on college basketball than college football. That makes them very odd compared to almost the entire rest of the country, but if you add basketball and ND football, you have New York in terms of college sports.

That is the reason we will see the ACC basketball tournament in NYC.

The main problem is MSG and the newest form BE. MSG is going to demand a tournament every year, and it is not going to prefer to dump the BE. And I do not see sharing the venue with the BE in a given year as good for the ACC.

So, the wise move would be to have the 3 parties agree to have the BE play in MSG in even years and the ACC in odd years. MSG gets an annual tournament. The BE gets to keep MSG half the time. The ACC gets to add MSG. Nobody's limelight is stolen.

This may, in fact, be the way it turns out. But I'm hoping something can be worked out.

 

[Chris02M]

only ways Barclays center should be considered if if msg can't get out of there contact with bigeastpart of the time

 

[BlazeOrange]

Tues in NC:
10 vs 15
11 vs 14
12 vs 13.

Wed in NC:
5 vs (12/13)
6 vs (11/14)
7 vs (10/15)
8 vs 9.

Fri in NYC:
1 vs (8/9)
2 vs (7/10/15)
3 vs (6/11/14)
4 vs (5/12/13)

Sat in NYC:
Semifinals

Sun in NYC:
Finals.

I like this approach. Although the Sunday final isn't optimal, I think you need the Thursday for travel between the venues. The NCAA seeding committee has worked with Sunday finals for years, so the drawback is minimal.

I'd like this schedule every year, but would be okay if the venues were flip-flopped from time to time to give NC the final three rounds. Or even hold the preliminary rounds at other locations around the conference from time to time before moving on to Greensboro or the Garden. Not sure whether it would be better to double up with northern or southern locations during those years or spread the locations apart during those (hopefully rare) years.

I haven't looked to see if there's a companion thread to this on the hoops board yet. If not, this thread should probably just be moved there since the FB talk is limited.

 

[Niastri]

If you only want to bring 8 teams to NYC, you have to eliminate 7 teams before then.

That means 7 games in Greensboro.

Tues in NC:
10 vs 15
11 vs 14
12 vs 13.

Wed in NC:
5 vs (12/13)
6 vs (11/14)
7 vs (10/15)
8 vs 9.

Fri in NYC:
1 vs (8/9)
2 vs (7/10/15)
3 vs (6/11/14)
4 vs (5/12/13)

Sat in NYC:
Semifinals

Sun in NYC:
Finals.

I like these brackets... As with the Big East Tournament, it should be set up in such a way as to maximize tournament bids. Any given year, the ACC will have a number of locks going into the tournament. In the ACC's best years, the best 9 teams will be locks, and 10, 11 and 12 will be bubble teams. This set up gives those bubble teams a much better chance of getting critical nuetral site wins prior to getting their shot at better teams as play in games. If 5, 6, or 7 are locks, any of those seeds getting upset could earn the ACC an extra bid.

Conversely, when the ACC is having a crappy year, the 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 teams could all be bubble teams (yes we are talking a very down year if the 5 seed isn't a lock, but it could happen). Thus these teams all get a chance to pad their win total against a lesser team with a shot at a ranked team as a play in game. No matter the quality, this bracket set up gives the teams with the most to gain a shot at getting quality wins and getting into the NCAA tournament. It also ensures that the stories for the Friday games are good. Talk of Cinderella for the low seeds who have gotten hot, or conversation about top teams battling so early.

You could conceivably have top 10 teams playing against each on Friday night in the 5 vs 4 game, which would make for a hell of a night cap with two days left to play. You also have what will often be the number one team in the country playing its first tournament game against an 8/9 team that is desperate to get into the dance, when that lower team is still relatively fresh having played only one game. And the number 1 team will be rusty from not having played in a week. The games at MSG could be very exciting on those Fridays.

I think all the games should be played in NYC, not in NC, but I am just a dumb Yank, so who cares what I think.

 

[wrigley]

My first post here. I thought about splitting the ACC tournament about 9 months ago as one of the only ways to alleviate a couple problems. I'm amazed that someone might actually be thinking about it. There's a couple things that I think you must consider (you being, you yanks ) when thinking about it.

For me, you have to go back to how great the ACC tournament was. "Great" meaning that you couldn't get a ticket. "Great" meaning that they were used as the ultimate fund raising tool. That, I think, is the goal. It's one of the reasons why it's in Greensboro because it can be sold out more often. But even in Greensboro, it's difficult to sell out now. It's "easy" to get a ticket because there "were" 12 teams in the league so of course some teams that are so far away or not very good or don't have "strong" traditions just don't stick, those seats end up being sold or empty. And those seats will always be available especially for the first games. Add that it has also become more corporate... more corporate seats. So how do you make the tournament tickets hard to get while at that same time growing to 15 members? Answer: split the sites. Keep Greensboro Keep NYC and make the finals in NYC. But what about the ACC traditionalist that don't want to play in NYC? Well, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, there's a answer. You don't seed things traditionally. So however the league is broken out in the regular season, the records only seed your standing in the tournament. So the Greensboro seeds are for the traditional ACC schools and the NYC seeds are for the traditional Big East schools. Greensboro would always get UNC, NCState, Duke, WF, Clemson, UVa, FSU, GT. NYC would always get Syr, VT, BC, Miami, Lville, Pitt, ND, and XX. Two rounds to get to 2 teams that advance. I can't speak of whether the first two rounds in NYC would be hot tickets but I can guarantee that the Greensboro tickets would be golden, they would be like the old ACC tournament tickets, cherished. Unfortunately, Syracuse wouldn't ever play in Greensboro. I don't know how you would feel about that. I think maybe you might like it that way. I don't know whether the first two games could be played in MSG, probably not. Maybe Barclays. But the finals would be in MSG and would be super corporate and the highlight of ALL the conference tournaments, as it should be. I think you get a lot of bang this way. You get mini ACC and Big East tournaments, and a HUGE final two games. Otherwise I don't know how you keep the excitement of having NCState play the opener on Wednesday night in NYC or BC play the opener on Wednesday in Greensboro. What do you think? Welcome to the ACC!