Stop blaming the fans for attendance

[syracuse95]

This lack of capacity-restricted demand has led to a fan base that never has urgency to buy tickets.

This is absolutely true. I've actually had people that live in Syracuse ask me why I buy season tickets, because you can just buy tickets to the games you want and sit wherever you want to.

 

[Scooch]

This is absolutely true. I've actually had people that live in Syracuse ask me why I buy season tickets, because you can just buy tickets to the games you want and sit wherever you want to.

Bingo.

I had season tickets from 1995-2003, along with 10 friends. That last season is when I had my first kid, and I made it to one game (I live 300 miles away from Syracuse).

A HUGE part of my calculation in deciding to give up my season tix was that I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I could always attend any game I wanted to. And I would never have to pay a ton to do so.

Now, if there was actual demand for tickets and there was no assurance I'd get into games in the future, I'd have 100% kept my seasons.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Overmatched players will look unprepared. When you're a step slower or a bit weaker, you get to your spot late or get pushed around. Our biggest deficiency is in the trenches, as usual, which is where we have the widest talent gap.

Being one of the most penalized teams every year doesn’t help. I didn’t realize how bad it was, It’s brutal.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football penalties per game, by team.

www.teamrankings.com

 

[djcon57]

I think there’s fewer and fewer people who look at sports that way, as time passes.

I would assume if you take a polling of the ages of people who do the "good fan, bad fan" debate they are easily over 60. They just aren't up to speed on current day options of entertainment or disagree with them. *shrug*

 

[djcon57]

FWIW, I think some folks (myself included) sometimes get pissy about the front runner fan takes and the idea of "blame", but I think if you take people on this board and true diehards out, it's not a crazy thing to say about your general Syracuse area fan and ESPECIALLY Alumni. I've been shocked by the amt of people who checked out the last couple years with the basketball team during their down years.

But I can also appreciate that it's a diff climate for entertainment. So you better win.

 

[Millhouse]

Bingo.

I had season tickets from 1995-2003, along with 10 friends. That last season is when I had my first kid, and I made it to one game (I live 300 miles away from Syracuse).

A HUGE part of my calculation in deciding to give up my season tix was that I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I could always attend any game I wanted to. And I would never have to pay a ton to do so.

Now, if there was actual demand for tickets and there was no assurance I'd get into games in the future, I'd have 100% kept my seasons.

that and if you're already planning to go to a dozen basketball games, are you really in a hurry to buy football tickets when you're not sure if they're good.

i could make an argument that syracuse football attendance is pretty good considering the population and the competition from basketball

 

[Scooch]

that and if you're already planning to go to a dozen basketball games, are you really in a hurry to buy football tickets when you're not sure if they're good.

i could make an argument that syracuse football attendance is pretty good considering the population and the competition from basketball

I've always thought your point about football and hoops sharing a fanbase to be a good one.

That dynamic is so different in CNY than I think it is for just about any other school. Probably only Louisville and Kansas compare in that way.

 

[Millhouse]

FWIW, I think some folks (myself included) sometimes get pissy about the front runner fan takes and the idea of "blame", but I think if you take people on this board and true diehards out, it's not a crazy thing to say about your general Syracuse area fan and ESPECIALLY Alumni. I've been shocked by the amt of people who checked out the last couple years with the basketball team during their down years.

But I can also appreciate that it's a diff climate for entertainment. So you better win.

can you blame people for taking a break, it's all the same people filling the dome all those years for basketball and they all took a breather at the same time.

 

[djcon57]

can you blame people for taking a break, it's all the same people filling the dome all those years for basketball and they all took a breather at the same time.

NO! I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying I was surprised when I would talk to friends or family and they'd be like "eh I dont really watch". I dont buy the fandom is guaranteed theory so, yeah, no blaming.

 

[Millhouse]

NO! I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying I was surprised when I would talk to friends or family and they'd be like "eh I dont really watch". I dont buy the fandom is guaranteed theory so, yeah, no blaming.

i didn't mean it that way, sorry.

 

[djcon57]

i didn't mean it that way, sorry.

Ya, I reread my post and I didnt clarify well at all either.

I think we're all mostly agreeing. Yes, the fans are not showing up, so we better win and if you expect them to be part of the solution, it's not going to happen.

 

[capeorange]

Being one of the most penalized teams every year doesn’t help. I didn’t realize how bad it was, It’s brutal.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football penalties per game, by team.

www.teamrankings.com

So the ACC conspiracy is against SU and FSU. The only difference is that FSU is good enough to overcome the penalties.

 

[orangecuse]

To answer your question, I literally hear about this to this very day, as the reason some left and never came back because of this idiot with no PR sense, "he told me to get a life, so I did", etc.
View attachment 232041

I'm going to attempt to draw a correlation of this along with General Motors. It has a personal tilt, so it may not be that accurate or on point at all. My father (still alive today at age 93) worked in middle management for GM for nearly 4 decades, commencing in its heyday.

At one time, GM had nearly 60% of the market share. The GM brass mind set/train of thought, etc. around this time was one of arrogance, ungratefulness, etc., and certainly lacked any true vision. Generally, chuckling at the idea/thought that the Japanese/foreign auto competitors would ever really make much of a dent, if any at all, into their market dominance, etc.

By the time the GM powers that be shifted from their myopic mindset, the momentum, wherewithal, etc. of its foreign competitors had so much kinetic force, the damage not only was done, but it was irreversible. Whenever the name Roger Smith comes up, my dad still to this day...well, let's just say in his 100% Italian/Sicilian way...fugetabouit!

The "only game in town" and "get a life" mantra from the SU brass has no doubt, IMO, played a contributing role in SU's demise of its football program. This mindset that the product is fine the way it is, or good enough, etc. deeply seeded the culture at Syracuse University. Its affect has been long lasting. Decades of losing, the laissez faire type attitude for the most part has not only lost generations of past interested local constituents, moreover, it halted any viability in expanding/growing its fan base.

Furthermore, consistently being behind the eight ball and reactionary in nature just to maintain any semblance of relevance/staying afloat nowadays is a mighty and practically futile uphill battle. The damage has been so significant, the reality is, it's highly improbable that Syracuse University will ever be a true player again on the major college football landscape.

 

[Scooch]

I don’t know, anyone still referencing that “get a life” comment is (a) old, and (b) using it to rationalize their behavior.

For the most part, people decide to do (or not do, or believe or not believe) something, and then find things that rationalize their decision.

So my hunch is that a lot of people who had already decided to draw down their SU fandom found a comment that justified that action. Its very unlikely that someone who was a rabid fan who attended every game quit cold turkey the day after Buzz spewed that nonsense.

 

[Orangezoo]

There are plenty of lots and a huge tailgate on the quad. If people want a Sunday experience this is college. Many of the schools we play against have a similar setup - like UNC.

If people are bailing on games because of ad breaks well then I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah this has zero to do with attendance from my circle

 

[IthacaMatt]

Maybe it wouldn’t be 18-41 if we had gung ho fan support.

Maybe if they did some grown up public relations and provided better media access, it might help, too.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think that we need to do everything in our power to convince top recruits to play for us, instead of showing recruits that we're a dead program with poor fan support.

But that's just me.

Maybe if we stopped putting up really embarrassing efforts in so called "big games", fans will show up in greater numbers. Fans expect the collapse now.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There are plenty of lots and a huge tailgate on the quad. If people want a Sunday experience this is college. Many of the schools we play against have a similar setup - like UNC.

If people are bailing on games because of ad breaks well then I don't know what to tell you.

The stuff on the Quad is not real tailgating, IMO. It's pep rally crap, meant for kids.
Television has ruined the viewing experience, too.
There are sixteen commercial breaks between 3:00 and 3:20 in every game.
Sixteen.
You know how many in European soccer? Zero. None. Nada. Just a 15 minute halftime and no timeouts.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is true and makes total sense. There are other fanbases, however, that don't follow that philosophy as strongly as ours. I'm not saying we should be more like them because to them football is their religion and their team is their god, but I'm just pointing out it's different in other places.

Imagine you attended a state school with 40,000 or 50,000 graduates every year, and most of you still live within driving distance of your college, still live in the same state. Those bonds remain strong, and get stronger after graduation. SU is a commuter school compared to those kinds of school, where literally everybody goes to either the U or State.

For a private school, we have an outstanding following, especially considering how few grads remain in CNY.

 

[Bayside44]

The stuff on the Quad is not real tailgating, IMO. It's pep rally crap, meant for kids.
Television has ruined the viewing experience, too.
There are sixteen commercial breaks between 3:00 and 3:20 in every game.
Sixteen.
You know how many in European soccer? Zero. None. Nada. Just a 15 minute halftime and no timeouts.

I’m pretty old and I like it! Agree the dead time is insufferable.

 

[Bayside44]

Yeah this has zero to do with attendance from my circle

Was in response to someone else

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t know, anyone still referencing that “get a life” comment is (a) old, and (b) using it to rationalize their behavior.

For the most part, people decide to do (or not do, or believe or not believe) something, and then find things that rationalize their decision.

So my hunch is that a lot of people who had already decided to draw down their SU fandom found a comment that justified that action. Its very unlikely that someone who was a rabid fan who attended every game quit cold turkey the day after Buzz spewed that nonsense.

While those who were offended by Buzz Shaw and the obvious decline in the later Pasqualoni years may be "old", a terrible product on the field in the aftermath of the end of that era of success turned off MANY people. How many years do you keep going to the game just to watch us get crushed?

Getting bombed in the parking lot before the game doesn't make up for the lack of any entertainment once you got inside.

SU has missed out on a generation of fans like me who know all the stories, know all the history, and attended so many great games over the years. We could have introduced our sons, daughters, grandkids, nieces / nephews, etc., to the enjoyment of SU sports, but my Gawd, we picked a really bad time to be indifferent, if not outright hostile to fans.

Greg Robinson was a nice man, but a historically bad choice. After his first or second year, Marrone had turned into a surly guy who was planning his escape to the NFL, and Shaffer was in over his head. Out of desperation, we have a somewhat charismatic coach who has two winning years out of our last 8 seasons.

So, you can say we're rationalizing, but 20 years is a long time to wait for us to be generally competitive on a regular basis, with occasional shots at beating a great team on national TV.

 

[Scooch]

While those who were offended by Buzz Shaw and the obvious decline in the later Pasqualoni years may be "old", a terrible product on the field in the aftermath of the end of that era of success turned off MANY people. How many years do you keep going to the game just to watch us get crushed?

Getting bombed in the parking lot before the game doesn't make up for the lack of any entertainment once you got inside.

SU has missed out on a generation of fans like me who know all the stories, know all the history, and attended so many great games over the years. We could have introduced our sons, daughters, grandkids, nieces / nephews, etc., to the enjoyment of SU sports, but my Gawd, we picked a really bad time to be indifferent, if not outright hostile to fans.

Greg Robinson was a nice man, but a historically bad choice. After his first or second year, Marrone had turned into a surly guy who was planning his escape to the NFL, and Shaffer was in over his head. Out of desperation, we have a somewhat charismatic coach who has two winning years out of our last 8 seasons.

So, you can say we're rationalizing, but 20 years is a long time to wait for us to be generally competitive on a regular basis, with occasional shots at beating a great team on national TV.

Not following the team as closely because of poor performance is not the same as dropping one’s fandom because the Chancellor said something stupid 20 years ago.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not following the team as closely because of poor performance is not the same as dropping one’s fandom because the Chancellor said something stupid 20 years ago.

Sure, but a hostile administration that never allows any publicity and that goes after reporters who are "too mean" is a bush league operation. I mean, how many freaking times on "Tribute Nights" have we misspelled the jersey of the player we are honoring?

Or how about the lack of security that turned our basketball "Midnight Madness" into an opportunity for gang fights? We do pretty much everything poorly in support of our sports program, from an administration point of view.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

I don’t know, anyone still referencing that “get a life” comment is (a) old, and (b) using it to rationalize their behavior.

For the most part, people decide to do (or not do, or believe or not believe) something, and then find things that rationalize their decision.

So my hunch is that a lot of people who had already decided to draw down their SU fandom found a comment that justified that action. Its very unlikely that someone who was a rabid fan who attended every game quit cold turkey the day after Buzz spewed that nonsense.

You'd be surprised, I guess, at how many people went from being fans/attending games to from not caring to outright hating them for that. Remember that was in response to a lot of those same fans complaining that they didn't think the school cared about the program to begin with. Those people stopped going, never brought their kids to games and the product on the field sure as never gave those younger locals any reason to become interested on their own, that's for sure