Stop blaming the fans for attendance | Page 11 | Syracusefan.com

Stop blaming the fans for attendance

syracuse95 said:
I'm not sure about that. From 1987-2001, we had 15 consecutive winning seasons. In 2001, there were only 4 teams with that many or more consecutive winning seasons...Syracuse, Michigan, FSU, and Nebraska. In 2001, we had gone to bowls in 12 of the prior 15 seasons, in a time when there were only 25 bowl games. We won 10+ games 5 times in that 15 year run, and most of those were 11 game regular seasons. We averaged 3 losses per year during that span, including bowl losses. We appeared in the Top 25 in every one of those seasons, and finished in the Top 25 in 10 of them. So, in the 2001 season we had a pretty longstanding record of success. At an elite level.

Our average home attendance in 2001? 41,103

A) Scooch is right. The Dome is too big.
B) I'm so glad I graduated from SU in '95. My youth corresponds to peak SU Football.
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A lot of it back then seemed to be based on the prior season. 2001 team wasn’t supposed to be good. Home schedule was also terrible except for the Auburn game, which happened right after 9/11 which probably affected the crowd.

1999 and 2000 seasons were very disappointing. Missed a bowl in 2000, got absolutely hammered a few times (VT in 99, Miami shutout at home in 00).

So 2001 - weak home schedule with no VT or Miami, and coming off 2 bad years and not expected to be good.
 
OrangeDW said:
A lot of it back then seemed to be based on the prior season. 2001 team wasn’t supposed to be good. Home schedule was also terrible except for the Auburn game, which happened right after 9/11 which probably affected the crowd.

1999 and 2000 seasons were very disappointing. Missed a bowl in 2000, got absolutely hammered a few times (VT in 99, Miami shutout at home in 00).

So 2001 - weak home schedule with no VT or Miami, and coming off 2 bad years and not expected to be good.
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Point taken, but I guess my point was that long term success doesn't drive attendance at SU. People come out for "event" games. We complain about it on here as if it's a recent phenomenon, but it's always been true at SU.

The only time we've ever even come close to selling out an entire season was 1992. Coming off a 10-2 year with a bowl win over OSU. It was Graves SR year, and we had Texas, Ohio State, Miami, VT, Pitt, and Rutgers at home. We averaged 49k that year, but we were a Top 10 team playing marquee opponents in almost every home game. That can't be replicated.
 
syracuse95 said:
Point taken, but I guess my point was that long term success doesn't drive attendance at SU. People come out for "event" games. We complain about it on here as if it's a recent phenomenon, but it's always been true at SU.

The only time we've ever even come close to selling out an entire season was 1992. Coming off a 10-2 year with a bowl win over OSU. It was Graves SR year, and we had Texas, Ohio State, Miami, VT, Pitt, and Rutgers at home. We averaged 49k that year, but we were a Top 10 team playing marquee opponents in almost every home game. That can't be replicated.
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Agreed. Event games and teams with lots of preseason hype(which might never happen again in football here, let’s face it), are definitely what draw.
 
Fascinating thread with great points from many angles...

Only thing I'd like to contribute, as a former CNYer and current WNYer, is my belief that Bills support is a bad comparison to SU football.

Many Bills fans endured an 18 year stretch of supporting terrible Bills teams in part because of their fear Buffalo would lose the franchise after Ralph's passing.

I have no idea how many current CNY Bills fans are a result of their resurgence but I doubt a significant number has ditched SU football for the Bills.
 
ForCuseSake said:
Fascinating thread with great points from many angles...

Only thing I'd like to contribute, as a former CNYer and current WNYer, is my belief that Bills support is a bad comparison to SU football.

Many Bills fans endured an 18 year stretch of supporting terrible Bills teams in part because of their fear Buffalo would lose the franchise after Ralph's passing.

I have no idea how many current CNY Bills fans are a result of their resurgence but I doubt a significant number has ditched SU football for the Bills.
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I have a neighbor that's a huge Bills fan.

He never attended SU, or any college for that matter.

He buys Bills season tix and attends most if not all of the games.

I think he can count on one hand the number of times he's been in the Dome. Not his team, not his problem.
 
OrangeXtreme said:
I have a neighbor that's a huge Bills fan.

He never attended SU, or any college for that matter.

He buys Bills season tix and attends most if not all of the games.

I think he can count on one hand the number of times he's been in the Dome. Not his team, not his problem.
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So you're saying he's a CNY Bills fan who hasn't ditched SU football because the Bills have become good again.

Right?
 
OrangeXtreme said:
CNY is filled with people who just don't care about college sports. You can't win people back that you never lost. Because you never had them in the first place.
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ZqVTPEs.gif


Agreed.

(Just trying to see understand how this relates to my post about how Bills fan support vs SU SU Football support is a bad comparison)
 
OrangeXtreme said:
CNY is filled with people who just don't care about college sports. You can't win people back that you never lost. Because you never had them in the first place.
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It's true. It is a small pro sports town. In Knoxville people like the Titans, but it's UT that rules. It's hard to say how many people are alumni. And it's harder to say how many chose the school because they were already fans and how many became fans because they attended the school.
 
syracuse95 said:
I'm not sure about that. From 1987-2001, we had 15 consecutive winning seasons. In 2001, there were only 4 teams with that many or more consecutive winning seasons...Syracuse, Michigan, FSU, and Nebraska. In 2001, we had gone to bowls in 12 of the prior 15 seasons, in a time when there were only 25 bowl games. We won 10+ games 5 times in that 15 year run, and most of those were 11 game regular seasons. We averaged 3 losses per year during that span, including bowl losses. We appeared in the Top 25 in every one of those seasons, and finished in the Top 25 in 10 of them. So, in the 2001 season we had a pretty longstanding record of success. At an elite level.

Our average home attendance in 2001? 41,103

A) Scooch is right. The Dome is too big.
B) I'm so glad I graduated from SU in '95. My youth corresponds to peak SU Football.
Expand...

Right, wrong or indifferent, perhaps the main reason why SU hasn't generally routinely packed a 50K home venue (even as you mention when it was good) is simply because it really has no business playing at the P5 level?

The population in the Syracuse & vicinity region clearly has more than enough patrons to support an event that happens once a week a half dozen times a year.

Fact of the matter is, even when Syracuse was good, the SU powers that be were (being kind) rather poor at being stewards of its athletic department.
 
OrangeXtreme said:
CNY is filled with people who just don't care about college sports. You can't win people back that you never lost. Because you never had them in the first place.
Expand...

A few years ago I read an article that said the Capital Region of NY is the least interested in college sports of any large metro area in the country. I don’t think Binghamton or Rochester are hotbeds either. From the standpoint of “interest in college sports”, Syracuse may be in the worst spot in the entire country. (Boston is probably close, although the interest in the Beanpot allows CNY to. “win”.)
 
rrlbees said:
I’ve always put part of the blame on the fans and I always will. Too many front runners.
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Trueblue25 said:
And start preparing our teams not to embarrass themselves on national TV.

Wildhack/Babers,

You want the support of CNY? Do your jobs.

Nothing has changed yet the excuses are equally dispersed on the region and fanbase.

Accountability. Where is
Trueblue25 said:
And start preparing our teams not to embarrass themselves on national TV.

Wildhack/Babers,

You want the support of CNY? Do your jobs.

Nothing has changed yet the excuses are equally dispersed on the region and fanbase.

Accountability. Where is it?
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We’ve been having this argument from the 90s. Fans have a stack I. This team, alum or townie. Fans do have a responsibility, they are the 12th man after all. If you go to the game and sit on your hands, that’s an issue. If you don’t go to a game because of a loss earlier in the year it’s an issue. Clemson was not an embarrassment, maybe NC. I don’t get embarrassed by young men playing a game, I just watch and cheer (well on my couch). But you have the right to see your way, I just have never gotten it. Go to games, cheer at games, if they’re bad it helps them get better. Recruits love teams that are supported by their fans, win lose or draw.
 
SUGIANT said:
We’ve been having this argument from the 90s. Fans have a stack I. This team, alum or townie. Fans do have a responsibility, they are the 12th man after all. If you go to the game and sit on your hands, that’s an issue. If you don’t go to a game because of a loss earlier in the year it’s an issue. Clemson was not an embarrassment, maybe NC. I don’t get embarrassed by young men playing a game, I just watch and cheer (well on my couch). But you have the right to see your way, I just have never gotten it. Go to games, cheer at games, if they’re bad it helps them get better. Recruits love teams that are supported by their fans, win lose or draw.
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I mean I’m always going to go, but in the end these games cost money to attend. Fans don’t get an endless supply of cash for bad decisions like Universities do
 
Cusefan95 said:
I’ve had NJ Devils season tickets for years. Since the new ownership group bought the team in 2013, they have tried about 18 billion things to “market” the team. But the team was generally terrible, so while those things moved the needle a little it wasn’t a massive attendance uptick. Last year the team was unexpectedly good, and a lot of people expect them to challenge for the Stanley Cup this year. Season tickets increased by the greatest number in team history this year, and about half the games it’s effectively impossible to find tickets for - winning is the best form of marketing possible. (Just looking at annual attendance for the last 20 years, I’d say “marketing” had no discernible impact at all).

Another example is the Florida Panthers - usually one of the worst teams for attendance in the NHL, they made the Stanley Cup finals last year and are suddenly a tough ticket many nights. “Marketing” did squat for attendance; winning did a lot for it.

Honestly Syracuse has screwed this up in every possible way though. The time to build the traditions that might have helped keep fans coming even when the team struggled was the 80s/90s, but instead of putting any effort into that the BOT allowed the athletic department revenues to be plundered. Then when the team started losing and attendance dropped, then they started to try marketing efforts - that was just putting lipstick on a pig which irritated fans even more. Insulting fans by telling them to get a life didn’t help, and ideally “tough times” are four win seasons not 1 win seasons. At this point I generally roll my eyes at any “marketing” idea for Syracuse football - if the team can’t at least make bowl games and be competitive in games they lose, that stuff is still just lipstick on a pig. There is absolutely no reason to think “marketing” a 6 or 7 win team that gets blown out in the losses will have a positive impact on attendance.

People are fair weather, they will show up if Syracuse starts to win more and at least not be embarrassed in losses. So I agree that is the only secret sauce here.
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This guy gets it.
 
FasterCuse said:
The CHIPS act was specifically written for them (that's how these bills work) so I have no fear that they'll get the money.
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Them among the other fab producers, I assume they will get it, but with the way government runs nothing would surprise me.
 
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