SU and the ACC

[HOFCeluck]

+1. Some confusing arguing about different things going on.
All I know is I see a lot of denial. The same delusion you'd probably see on any board of any program that's ever fallen.
I don't really see the point in arguing 2005 Big East vs ACC. I think it's fine to say the BE was better. So what. The point that dynamics of everything having changed, being a Northeast team in this league, is a valid one imo (Pitt & BC are dumpster fires). Not sure why the kneejerk is to call that an "excuse". Who is anyone trying to excuse exactly?

What you’re saying isn’t the same as what thenIP is saying though.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Also how do you explain VA Tech and UVA going from NIT caliber programs to becoming a Top 25 and Top 5 team AFTER this so called super ACC? Or does this mythical harder conference only apply to SU?

Well, technically, the ACC is easier for UVA because they don't have to play UVA.

But VT and UVA have gotten much better than they have essentially ever been due to quality coaching at those places. Duke has stepped up to Kentucky level cheating to get #1 recuiting classes. UNC is UNC. I don't think this conference is really more difficult than vintage BE. There is no question the quality of our Syracuse teams is less than we have seen in the past. We're operating at the 2006-2009 level right now, maybe a little worse. Things ebb and flow I guess. We just need to play better and win more. That will resolve many of these debates.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Little more comparison of our last 5 years in each conference:

Post season teams (NCAA or NIT)
Big East 53 (66.25%)
ACC 50 (66.67%)
So they are the same at producing decent teams

NCAA teams
Big East 43 (53.75%)
ACC 37 (49.33%)
Big East was slightly better at producing NCAA teams

NIT teams
ACC 13
Big East 10
ACC was better at NIT teams

Sweet 16 teams
ACC 17
Big East 16
Same at S16

Elite 8
Big East 11
ACC 10
Same at E8

Final Four
Big East 8
ACC 4
Big East a lot better. Surprising given ACC top heavy.

NIT Final Four
ACC 4
Big East 1
ACC had just as many NIT FFs as NCAA

Champions
Big East 2
ACC 2
Same

After looking at that how can anyone in their right mind say moving to the ACC was a step up? The two are basically the same.

 

[teamco]

All I know is that when we were in the Big East basketball was exciting, I mean really exciting. That was like having a big fat Katz's corned beef sandwich on rye with mustard, a sour pickle, and a Dr Brown's Cream soda (or cel ray) every time out. The ACC? It's as exciting as lady finger sandwiches with mayo on white bread with the crust cutoff, accompanied by a glass of milk. Shivers. I know, I know, that was then and this is now . . . I'm just saying I miss my Northeast, NYC style basketball wars.

 

[HoustonCuse]

All I know is that when we were in the Big East basketball was exciting, I mean really exciting. That was like having a big fat Katz's corned beef sandwich on rye with mustard, a sour pickle, and a Dr Brown's Cream soda (or cel ray) every time out. The ACC? It's as exciting as lady finger sandwiches with mayo on white bread with the crust cutoff, accompanied by a glass of milk. Shivers. I know, I know, that was then and this is now . . . I'm just saying I miss my Northeast, NYC style basketball wars.

If Syracuse was playing better you would be just as excited about the ACC.

 

[OrangeDW]

Little more comparison of our last 5 years in each conference:

Post season teams (NCAA or NIT)
Big East 53 (66.25%)
ACC 50 (66.67%)
So they are the same at producing decent teams

NCAA teams
Big East 43 (53.75%)
ACC 37 (49.33%)
Big East was slightly better at producing NCAA teams

NIT teams
ACC 13
Big East 10
ACC was better at NIT teams

Sweet 16 teams
ACC 17
Big East 16
Same at S16

Elite 8
Big East 11
ACC 10
Same at E8

Final Four
Big East 8
ACC 4
Big East a lot better. Surprising given ACC top heavy.

NIT Final Four
ACC 4
Big East 1
ACC had just as many NIT FFs as NCAA

Champions
Big East 2
ACC 2
Same

After looking at that how can anyone in their right mind say moving to the ACC was a step up? The two are basically the same.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'm just saying I miss my Northeast, NYC style basketball wars.

I don’t know what this means, but it makes me think of 2003-11 Pitt basketball. So thanks but no thanks.

 

[hoopsupstate]

The Big East didn’t have the home courts as the ACC. The Big East played a lot of game in NBA arenas. We had the best road record in the Big East. In the ACC you have to play in campus arenas.

 

[MSOrange]

The Big East didn’t have the home courts as the ACC. The Big East played a lot of game in NBA arenas. We had the best road record in the Big East. In the ACC you have to play in campus arenas.

And that's actually one thing I like about the ACC even if it's harder to win.

 

[SUFan44]

Why is it that people don't want to realize that today's ACC is not the same as yesterday's BE? With the breakup of the BE, the ACC got doubly strong from top to bottom. There are 7 former BE teams in the ACC. At some time each was a power in the BE. How has each faired in their new, stronger league? There has been limited success. Very limited. Now, not only does SU have to compete against teams that were tough in the BE, there is a whole new set of teams that routinely sit atop the ACC. And the dynamics of recruiting has changed. Besides the sanctions, it's no longer recruiting BE versus the ACC, its play for SU in the ACC or play for Duke, or UNC or Virginia etc. And that doesn't take into account how recruiting itself has changed. So the whole picture has changed. And it may be difficult for SU to completely regain its former glory.

Bad take. Completely disagree. We are 8-4 in this league right now because it isn't very good outside the top half.

Hopefully we can get a couple more wins down the stretch against the good teams in the league. But it isn't going to be easy.

 

[SBU72]

We have storied history, the biggest college b-ball venue in the game, campus and facilities are being upgraded... the NCAA sanctions hangover is over.

There's no excuse fvor why we can't start to get top tier recruits...

That said, people will and do make excuses.

Sure there is. Maybe the kids don't like snow and prefer to go south. Play for Duke, UNC, Virginia, NCSt. Or can't make the academics. Or don't like the SU record for getting kids to the pros. There are all sorts of reasons

 

[kingtidge]

Sure there is. Maybe the kids don't like snow and prefer to go south. Play for Duke, UNC, Virginia, NCSt. Or can't make the academics. Or don't like the SU record for getting kids to the pros. There are all sorts of reasons

There are excuses.

Somebody has to land the high prospects...

I refuse to accept that we're incapable of doing that.

Michigan gets plenty of snow and cold temps but they can pull in the prospects...

Other schools that land consistent 5-stars have stringent grade requirements.

Poor track record of putting players into the pros... that's kind of self-fulfilling when you don't land good recruiting prospects...

 

[NineOneSeven]

All I know is that when we were in the Big East basketball was exciting, I mean really exciting. That was like having a big fat Katz's corned beef sandwich on rye with mustard, a sour pickle, and a Dr Brown's Cream soda (or cel ray) every time out. The ACC? It's as exciting as lady finger sandwiches with mayo on white bread with the crust cutoff, accompanied by a glass of milk. Shivers. I know, I know, that was then and this is now . . . I'm just saying I miss my Northeast, NYC style basketball wars.

Far out

 

[Madbiker]

I don't think this year the league is that good. Outside Duke, UVA and UNC I think everyone is eh.

And Syracuse is part of the eh.