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SU FB training

nzm136

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A couple of years ago there was a youtube video that said that the SU FB team could bench a combined X more lbs than the previous team, run Y distance in a combined Z less minutes, and so on. Are there any videos like that this year, and/or does anyone have any information regarding the team's fitness when compared to the teams under HCDM?

I would be interested in knowing for two reasons:
1. I want to see how much progress there was in HCDM's recruiting over GRob's
and
2. I want to compare HCDM to HCSS to see which one produces more disciplined and better trained athletes. My gut says that HCDM's teams will be more disciplined* and HCSS's teams will be more fit.**

*However, he was working with less talent because of the GROB years, so it may not appear that his teams were more disciplined.
**He seems to be a better motivator/recruiter).

Here's the old video:
 
I'm thinking this team will be even more conditioned than last year's team. That says something about practice tempo.
 
A couple of years ago there was a youtube video that said that the SU FB team could bench a combined X more lbs than the previous team, run Y distance in a combined Z less minutes, and so on. Are there any videos like that this year, and/or does anyone have any information regarding the team's fitness when compared to the teams under HCDM?

I would be interested in knowing for two reasons:
1. I want to see how much progress there was in HCDM's recruiting over GRob's
and
2. I want to compare HCDM to HCSS to see which one produces more disciplined and better trained athletes. My gut says that HCDM's teams will be more disciplined* and HCSS's teams will be more fit.**

*However, he was working with less talent because of the GROB years, so it may not appear that his teams were more disciplined.
**He seems to be a better motivator/recruiter).

Here's the old video:

Here's the link to this year's summer workout video

http://www.suathletics.com/showcase/#Archive/7127
 
More disciplined? I never seen more false starts and offsides in my life then we did lady year.


Yeah, I think DM talked a lot about discipline but I'm not certain -- on game day at least -- that we actually saw much discipline, let alone some sort of precision military-type outfit. To be fair to DM, maybe this was because he was only a portion of the way through a serious rebuild of the program, but the fact remains that his teams didn't exactly show an inordinate amount of discipline.
 
Yeah, I think DM talked a lot about discipline but I'm not certain -- on game day at least -- that we actually saw much discipline, let alone some sort of precision military-type outfit. To be fair to DM, maybe this was because he was only a portion of the way through a serious rebuild of the program, but the fact remains that his teams didn't exactly show an inordinate amount of discipline.
I think that you have to judge the guy on what he was working with. I think that there was a very stark difference in discipline between HCDM and GROB. It's MUCH easier for HCSS to look disciplined, because there is a foundation in place. Marrone lacked a basic foundation.
 
I think that you have to judge the guy on what he was working with. I think that there was a very stark difference in discipline between HCDM and GROB. It's MUCH easier for HCSS to look disciplined, because there is a foundation in place. Marrone lacked a basic foundation.


Fair point. I agree with this but simply meant to point out that I wouldn't describe many games we played the past four years as 'clean'.
 
Fair point. I agree with this but simply meant to point out that I wouldn't describe many games we played the past four years as 'clean'.
That's an understatement. We looked downright sloppy at times. I would also go a step further and say that we had too many off the field issues as well. That said, discipline comes in many forms, and I think that it is undeniable that the Syracuse team of 2013 thinks that it can win against anyone going into the season, which counts for something. Sure they won't be favorite for some games, but I think that there is an institutional memory of holding our own against #2 USC (early in the season before USC's lack of depth mattered), NW (who was under 5:30 away from being undefeated), UL (who beat #3 UF in the Sugar Bowl), and WVU (who was top 5 for much of the year). I also get the impression that the players of today take games seriously and don't get drunk before games. I can't say the same about the Syracuse team of 2009 heading into the season. Sure there were many very motivated players who were serious about winning, but there were a ton who weren't, and that was reflected in the team's attitude. We didn't think that we could win, so we didn't try like we should have. IMO, HCDM's greatest accomplishment was removing that mindset and instilling enough discipline to focus the team on winning. We now play complete game son both sides of the ball, and we play complete seasons. We do not give up or clown around. That is HUGE.

I think that the penalties and the off the field issues were more a product of the talent of the players that he recruited. If you're not in a position where you can pick the players you want, you have to get creative and compromise to make the most of what you can get. That means taking risk on talent players who might also have baggage in the form of character issues. It also means taking a risk on a player with raw talent but little polish. Obviously players with questionably character traits are more likely to get in trouble with the school/law than upstanding citizens, and unpolished players are more likely to commit penalties or run plays in a sloppy fashion than polished players. Unfortunately, HCDM was not a smooth talker, so the only way he was ever going to be an elite recruiter was by having a name that he could leverage, either in the form of his own name, or his institution's name. Since a combination of a lack of facilities and GRob's tenure annihilated SU's good name, the school wasn't selling itself, and since HCDM was new, his name wasn't a selling point either. That means that HCDM was forced to take recruiting risks, which would explain the sloppy play, penalties, and off field issues.

However, in HCDM's defense, he was an excellent coach and an elite evaluator of talent, so his teams always over-performed and his reputation steadily improved, along with the school's. He just wasn't at Syracuse long enough to cash in on it. Had he been able to build a mystique around him, a la Joe Paterno, I think that he could have delegated the recruiting leg work to Atkins and Schaffer with great success, especially given SU's recent facilities push. It would have been interesting to see what HCDM would have done with 4 more years.
 
That's an understatement. We looked downright sloppy at times. I would also go a step further and say that we had too many off the field issues as well. That said, discipline comes in many forms, and I think that it is undeniable that the Syracuse team of 2013 thinks that it can win against anyone going into the season, which counts for something. Sure they won't be favorite for some games, but I think that there is an institutional memory of holding our own against #2 USC (early in the season before USC's lack of depth mattered), NW (who was under 5:30 away from being undefeated), UL (who beat #3 UF in the Sugar Bowl), and WVU (who was top 5 for much of the year). I also get the impression that the players of today take games seriously and don't get drunk before games. I can't say the same about the Syracuse team of 2009 heading into the season. Sure there were many very motivated players who were serious about winning, but there were a ton who weren't, and that was reflected in the team's attitude. We didn't think that we could win, so we didn't try like we should have. IMO, HCDM's greatest accomplishment was removing that mindset and instilling enough discipline to focus the team on winning. We now play complete game son both sides of the ball, and we play complete seasons. We do not give up or clown around. That is HUGE.

I think that the penalties and the off the field issues were more a product of the talent of the players that he recruited. If you're not in a position where you can pick the players you want, you have to get creative and compromise to make the most of what you can get. That means taking risk on talent players who might also have baggage in the form of character issues. It also means taking a risk on a player with raw talent but little polish. Obviously players with questionably character traits are more likely to get in trouble with the school/law than upstanding citizens, and unpolished players are more likely to commit penalties or run plays in a sloppy fashion than polished players. Unfortunately, HCDM was not a smooth talker, so the only way he was ever going to be an elite recruiter was by having a name that he could leverage, either in the form of his own name, or his institution's name. Since a combination of a lack of facilities and GRob's tenure annihilated SU's good name, the school wasn't selling itself, and since HCDM was new, his name wasn't a selling point either. That means that HCDM was forced to take recruiting risks, which would explain the sloppy play, penalties, and off field issues.

However, in HCDM's defense, he was an excellent coach and an elite evaluator of talent, so his teams always over-performed and his reputation steadily improved, along with the school's. He just wasn't at Syracuse long enough to cash in on it. Had he been able to build a mystique around him, a la Joe Paterno, I think that he could have delegated the recruiting leg work to Atkins and Schaffer with great success, especially given SU's recent facilities push. It would have been interesting to see what HCDM would have done with 4 more years.


Yup. I'm with you. I would actually point to the fitness levels and sheer physicality of the team as a testament to some form of discipline as well. I actually think one of DM's struggles as a recruiter -- and I personally think he was doing a fine job in this regard and building momentum -- was that he simply didn't like it. He likes coaching football and that will be his primary focus in the NFL. Rolling out the red-carpet for 16- and 17-year-old kids was not in his DNA (not that I blame him).

Regardless, I'm with you on all these points.
 

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