SU NIL Budget

[Scooch]

If SU basketball doesn't have enough boosters to adequately fund NIL then, in all honesty, we need to reconsider our entire approach to college athletics.

There really is no reason that a program with the historical success we have had, which led to us creating one of the ten largest fanbases in the country, and with an alumni base full of very wealthy people, can't compete at the upper levels of the sport.

I've said this before and I mean it, if we can't generate the money to have a top 25 hoops program then we should consider leaving the ACC and joining the Big East.

 

[Scooch]

In the end, the coach takes the sword. But yesterday falls on……
Nate George- 7 turnovers
Donnie Freeman- 7 turnovers.
And that cannot be disputed.

Players are primarily responsible for determining the outcome, no doubt.

I do think sometimes it's easy to focus on the game-to-game micro issues and lose track of the broader macro issues. Often times they're very much related.

Why do we always seem to have a couple of players with an inordinate amount of turnovers every game? Personally, I think it's because we have a HC who doesn't demand precision and focus.

George, Freeman and Kingz are all averaging more turnovers/game this season than they did last. Maybe that's just a coincidence. Maybe not.

I think it's fine to look at any single loss, or uninspiring win, and put it on the players. But when those losses, or uninspiring wins, keep happening I think it's right to look at the bigger picture.

 

[ChunkyMonke]

I know others don’t want to hear it but Hodgson is that guy. He’s already close with a major university donor who currently doesn’t contribute to basketball I believe.

What donor

 

[Cuse1055]

What donor

Lally

 

[ChunkyMonke]

Lally

True plus season ticket holder for USF. Big fans of BH. They $ support SU women’s bball but don’t think men’s.

 

[MSOrange]

I do believe NG cost them the game for sure. But even with all that. Up 5 with 1:09 to go. Good coaching doesn’t lose that game. Normal coaching doesn’t lose the game. Sure Donnie missed the free throw. Sure the BC guy made the 3. Sure NG had another turnover. But challenging that call to lose the timeout was costly

Appreciate this perspective Bulldog. I've given you a hard time sometimes when my emotions got the best of me, as we're all passionate about SU. I know it's not easy to watch your friends not do as well as we all want them to and to have to be critical of them.

 

[Bulldog04]

Appreciate this perspective Bulldog. I've given you a hard time sometimes when my emotions got the best of me, as we're all passionate about SU. I know it's not easy to watch your friends not do as well as we all want them to and to have to be critical of them.

We’re all insane fans that care lol and friendships don’t change anything, but winning matters more than anything. We have a saying in golf “just play better” because it truly takes care of everything… It’s tough to root for guys like Hurley, but starting to realize a lot of greats in any sport act a “certain way”

 

[IthaCuse]

The NIL budget is clearly not why we lost to Hofstra, but I don’t believe $8-9 million for a single second. The talent was overrated, as it almost always is on this board in the last decade. Other than George and Kingz we brought in zero players with any proven production. It’s not why we lose to the dregs of P4 and even mid majors, but it’s the truth.

I am on the record as an advocate of dropping football and going all in on basketball if this hasn’t worked itself out within 5-6 years. I would give it til then to see if something can change.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The NIL budget is clearly not why we lost to Hofstra, but I don’t believe $8-9 million for a single second. The talent was overrated, as it almost always is on this board in the last decade. Other than George and Kingz we brought in zero players with any proven production. It’s not why we lose to the dregs of P4 and even mid majors, but it’s the truth.

I am on the record as an advocate of dropping football and going all in on basketball if this hasn’t worked itself out within 5-6 years. I would give it til then to see if something can change.

We had a top 15-20 class overall by every recruiting service despite what you think and the number is accurate.

 

[IthaCuse]

We had a top 15-20 class overall by every recruiting service despite what you think and the number is accurate.

Wrong. 247 had us at 36th, On3 had us at 15th based on overrating guys who did nothing at their prior stop and the sheer volume of guys we brought in. They were wrong, even 247 appears to have been a tad optimistic.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wrong. 247 had us at 36th, On3 had us at 15th based on overrating guys who did nothing at their prior stop and the sheer volume of guys we brought in. They were wrong, even 247 appears to have been a tad optimistic.

20th overall on newcomers for 2 4 7. You’re not looking at the same thing I was.

 

[IthaCuse]

20th overall on newcomers for 2 4 7. You’re not looking at the same thing I was.

The only problem with that is that freshmen no longer matter unless they’re immediate impact. Anyone who develops will be poached, anyone who produces immediately will transfer if not paid a ton the next year. The days of program building are over. The portal is the only thing that matters if you’re not pulling top 50 freshmen, which we didn’t.

 

[Iowa044]

The only problem with that is that freshmen no longer matter unless they’re immediate impact. Anyone who develops will be poached, anyone who produces immediately will transfer if not paid a ton the next year. The days of program building are over. The portal is the only thing that matters if you’re not pulling top 50 freshmen, which we didn’t.

Um we have two top 50 freshman in this roster I’m confused

 

[phil77]

If SU basketball doesn't have enough boosters to adequately fund NIL then, in all honesty, we need to reconsider our entire approach to college athletics.

There really is no reason that a program with the historical success we have had, which led to us creating one of the ten largest fanbases in the country, and with an alumni base full of very wealthy people, can't compete at the upper levels of the sport.

I've said this before and I mean it, if we can't generate the money to have a top 25 hoops program then we should consider leaving the ACC and joining the Big East.

I agree especially on the Basketball side of things. There is no way we should be having NIL problems. Maybe we aren't top 10 in NIL but we raising NIL funds shouldn't be an issue. Seems relationships have been ruined at some point hopefully they can be repaired.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Players are primarily responsible for determining the outcome, no doubt.

I do think sometimes it's easy to focus on the game-to-game micro issues and lose track of the broader macro issues. Often times they're very much related.

Why do we always seem to have a couple of players with an inordinate amount of turnovers every game? Personally, I think it's because we have a HC who doesn't demand precision and focus.

George, Freeman and Kingz are all averaging more turnovers/game this season than they did last. Maybe that's just a coincidence. Maybe not.

I think it's fine to look at any single loss, or uninspiring win, and put it on the players. But when those losses, or uninspiring wins, keep happening I think it's right to look at the bigger picture.

i think the offense is very predictable and allows opponents to gamble for steals effectively. i think during the end of games especially the cuse always goes iso heavy and stops passing and ball movement and that creates a lot of turnover situations. when the driver is shut off they have to get rid of the ball and defenders know that. i bet if you could isolate all the possessions when an SU player drives but gets stymied...the offensive efficiency on those possessions is dreadful. and the turnover percentage is astronomical. (fwiw i think BC defense is very good at shutting off drivers and guarding iso plays - much better than one might assume by their record and that is exactly why they had a lot of success vs SU)

also i think george is not that fast and is being made to be a penetrator by red and thats not his game. also when you have very limited guys like suaore in there - defenses know he will only set screens and immediately pass if he gets it...again, its easy to anticipate and go for steals. when you are playing 4 on 5 or 3 on 5 on offense...it really suffocates a team.

i think there is a correlation between turnovers and scheme and its not only on the players but certainly they obviously are culpable as well, and probably bare the majority of the blame

 

[Brooky03]

This is depressing.

I hope college sports, or at least hoops, gets to a point of donor fatigue (no more millions flowing out with no money coming back) sooner than later and NIL becomes what it was meant to be all along, sponsorship money for marketable players who actually generate returns on the investment.

An NBA minor league that doesn’t suck would go a long way, but that’s looking less and less likely.

College hoops will probably never get the magic back. We’re just rooting for a name on the front of the jersey now, not the players wearing the jersey. A bunch of mercenaries playing for a check.

 

[Newhouser]

The NIL budget is clearly not why we lost to Hofstra, but I don’t believe $8-9 million for a single second. The talent was overrated, as it almost always is on this board in the last decade. Other than George and Kingz we brought in zero players with any proven production. It’s not why we lose to the dregs of P4 and even mid majors, but it’s the truth.

I am on the record as an advocate of dropping football and going all in on basketball if this hasn’t worked itself out within 5-6 years. I would give it til then to see if something can change.

Like and totally agree with paragraph one.
Paragraph two I wouldn't drop until we are told we aren't wanted.

 

[elimunelson]

If SU basketball doesn't have enough boosters to adequately fund NIL then, in all honesty, we need to reconsider our entire approach to college athletics.

There really is no reason that a program with the historical success we have had, which led to us creating one of the ten largest fanbases in the country, and with an alumni base full of very wealthy people, can't compete at the upper levels of the sport.

I've said this before and I mean it, if we can't generate the money to have a top 25 hoops program then we should consider leaving the ACC and joining the Big East.

Uconn is in the big east for hoops and are doing just fine. Is it a downgrade or is it geographically more aligned w our fan base and where we want to play as a program.

I hope we go back to the big east. This experience in the acc has debased our hoops program and football is something that is beyond explanation with how it is constructed now. It’s a pay to play operation where getting a qb is the key to the equation.

Again I’m in the minority here. The morgue that is conte forum was alive for a very mediocre Syracuse team. Tells u there is geographical interest that lingers.

 

[grepal]

In the end, the coach takes the sword. But yesterday falls on……
Nate George- 7 turnovers
Donnie Freeman- 7 turnovers.
And that cannot be disputed.

That is the truth. It was rough to watch.

 

[Consigliere]

Uconn is in the big east for hoops and are doing just fine. Is it a downgrade or is it geographically more aligned w our fan base and where we want to play as a program.

I hope we go back to the big east. This experience in the acc has debased our hoops program and football is something that is beyond explanation with how it is constructed now. It’s a pay to play operation where getting a qb is the key to the equation.

Again I’m in the minority here. The morgue that is conte forum was alive for a very mediocre Syracuse team. Tells u there is geographical interest that lingers.

Except UConn’s athletic program ran $56MM in the red last year. I guess a state school can do that. A private school cannot. Unless you want to drop football the Big East is not an option. And, even it it were, it’s not the nostalgic Big East that you’re pining for,

 

[Archbold44]

Except UConn’s athletic program ran $56MM in the red last year. I guess a state school can do that. A private school cannot. Unless you want to drop football the Big East is not an option. And, even it it were, it’s not the nostalgic Big East that you’re pining for,

I don't agree with you about dropping football.

But I also wonder who is missing from the Big East that REALLY matters? The original 9 was Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, UConn, Pitt, and BC. Pitt and BC are gone. to the ACC with us, but the other 6 are there. Pitt was just a thorn in the side for most of the first 10 years and really started mattering more in the 2000s oveaall... and BC with Gary Williams had some good teams with Michael Adams, etc. For the first several years, the formative years, the Big East was primarily GTown, Syracuse, Villanova, and St. Johns making all the noise. At the end of the 1980s, Providence had a run and Seton Hall had a run... and of course UConn went on a very long run. All are still in the Big East.

The second wave of football members is gone now. The third wave of the private schools... DePaul and Marquette are still around. ND is gone.

In a world where Syracuse does not fit the mold of highest-level football, BC and Wake Forest probably do not either. I could see both joining the American for football, with the rest of the sports parked in the Big East (14 teams at that point). ND could park its sports in the Big East as well. Maybe Tulane also. That would be 16 teams

Big East New: ND, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, Wake Forest, and Tulane.
Big East Old: Syracuse, Georgetown, BC, Villanova, St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, UConn

6/16 teams need a football home, Tulane has one and ND is find as independent. Add Wake Forest, Syracuse, BC, and UConn back to the American. 18 teams competing for a G5 spot. Probably a comparable western block would form out of the Pac/MWC... with the champions of the Pac/American playing for the one G5 playoff entrance.

Don't like it. But it is a possibility.

 

[Consigliere]

It’s not who’s gone. It’s who was added. Starting with Marquette and DePaul. If JB struggled finding a good Italian restaurant in the Carolinas, try Omaha, Nebraska. And as tight as money is for the athletic department now, try running it without ACC media rights. There is a reason beyond paying Hurley and Gene that UConn hemorrhages money. And NY State taxpayers won’t be bailing Syracuse out.

 

[JimBoston]

Except UConn’s athletic program ran $56MM in the red last year. I guess a state school can do that. A private school cannot. Unless you want to drop football the Big East is not an option. And, even it it were, it’s not the nostalgic Big East that you’re pining for,

The revenue difference between UConn and Syracuse is due to the ACC conference revenues. There is no excuse for Syracuse not fielding a competitive basketball program year in and year out.

 

[Consigliere]

The revenue difference between UConn and Syracuse is due to the ACC conference revenues. There is no excuse for Syracuse not fielding a competitive basketball program year in and year out.

Not the point of our exchange at all. I responded to a post claiming UConn does just fine playing in the Big East for basketball and maintaining an FBS football program. Not making an “excuse” for Syracuse basketball at all. Simply refuting that the UConn model is a viable option for Cuse.