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Summer Thoughts

syrBossHogg

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I was never remotely a Paulus fan and yet I have always thought that he would have done fairly well in Dino’s offense. He didn’t have Devito’s arm strength, and he was definitely more turnover prone, but he was more accurate and he was excellent at the short passing game. He made quick reads, he was decisive, and wasn’t afraid to thread the ball into tight places.

I'm not saying I would trade one for the other but I think Paulus would have been interesting in this offense. His ability to read the D and get the ball out quickly might have offset at least some of the massive porosity of the OL too.

I agree, I think Paulus would've done very well in this offense. Having a QB that can scramble and throw on the run are huge components needed going forward.
 

TheCusian

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Nassib showed signs as a starter that TD has yet to show. Add in the change in O and you get 2012's passing attack. Where is TD's:

2010 at USF game winning drive?
2010 Pinstripe Bowl performance?
2011 Wake come from behind (down 15 points with 10 mins left) OT victory?
2011 at USC (although mostly garbage time)?
2011 WV?

Since ND beat him up in 2018, TD hasn't had many good performances. What does he have to hang his hat on? WMU and GA Tech? The UNC game when he came off the bench and saved us is seeing more and more like a fluke. And even then he nearly lost the game by throwing a 2nd INT.
This is not a great way to make your argument. Ryan stayed healthy in his last 3 years which says a lot about his OL play and is a credit to him. But it's also more bites at the apple.

How does Ryan get credit for the Wake Forest win when Tommy won the game vs a ranked FSU and UNC (and you called a fluke lol)? Ryan didn't do anything like that his first year. Tommy's line from the Maryland debacle ended up pretty nice compared to Ryan's USC game.

This get's closer, but obviously Tommy in year 3 he got hurt pretty early and Ryan played the whole season, so I left it off. Happy to add it if folks want me to:

QB/YearCompletion %RatingTD/INTschedule strength
1st Year Nassib (2009)36 out of 68 (52.9%)116.73/140th
1st Year DeVito (2018)54 out of 87 (50.6%)109.55/457th
2nd Year Nassib (2010)202 out of 348 (56.4%)124.219/885th
2nd Year DeVito (2019)213 out of 337 (63.2%)137.719/573rd
 

TheCusian

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TD was good enough vs FSU, UNC, WMU, and Louisville IMO. Your right we haven't seen him play great against a top 25 team yet but Dino and staff haven't built the right infrastructure on offense yet.
FSU was ranked when Tommy beat them off the bench (#19). But it was the start of their implosion so nobody thinks of them as good, which is correct lol.
 

AngryOtto

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TD was good enough vs FSU, UNC, WMU, and Louisville IMO. Your right we haven't seen him play great against a top 25 team yet but Dino and staff haven't built the right infrastructure on offense yet.
Let’s stop placing blame on everyone other than TD. The Oline was a train wreck last season but TD continues to make the same mental mistakes every season.
I agree ND exposed him and he has never shown that he can win consistently.
The GT game was one by the D even though the offense was inept.
The season before we won Duke with the run game. Wake was Welch.
I hope there is great improvement but I do not see it happening. I’m just glad we have back ups that give us a chance to win.
 

HRE Otto IV

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This is not a great way to make your argument. Ryan stayed healthy in his last 3 years which says a lot about his OL play and is a credit to him. But it's also more bites at the apple.

How does Ryan get credit for the Wake Forest win when Tommy won the game vs a ranked FSU and UNC (and you called a fluke lol)? Ryan didn't do anything like that his first year. Tommy's line from the Maryland debacle ended up pretty nice compared to Ryan's USC game.

This get's closer, but obviously Tommy in year 3 he got hurt pretty early and Ryan played the whole season, so I left it off. Happy to add it if folks want me to:

QB/YearCompletion %RatingTD/INTschedule strength
1st Year Nassib (2009)36 out of 68 (52.9%)116.73/140th
1st Year DeVito (2018)54 out of 87 (50.6%)109.55/457th
2nd Year Nassib (2010)202 out of 348 (56.4%)124.219/885th
2nd Year DeVito (2019)213 out of 337 (63.2%)137.719/573rd

TD is a statistical anomaly. His QB ratings are great but his production isn't there. Also he has done a lot of damage in garbage time as a starter, which somewhat explains his stats.

Additionally I was comparing the two as starters. IMO TD's best game was by far the 2018 FSU game, but he did not start that game. UNC he was amazing for a FR and showed great potential, but again he did not start that game. Teams were not prepping for his skill set. I am saying since becoming a starter he has shown very little (really since UNC as vs ND he was a disaster).

Which is why the fluke comment. He has played in 18 games since that 2018 UNC game and in none of them did he remind you of that UNC game we saw from him. So when one of these things is not like the other? The MD game TD was garbage the first few drives. He played great in the 2nd half but the game was well over. The USC game Nassib didn't have a garbage start.

My main point was Nassib led us to victories with his arm as both a Soph and Jr starter in a non QB friendly system. TD in a QB friendly system has led us to only a win over WMU with his arm as a Soph and Jr starter. In fairness he only had 1/3 of a season last year.
 

orangepassion

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I agree, I think Paulus would've done very well in this offense. Having a QB that can scramble and throw on the run are huge components needed going forward.
The guy I've always thought would be perfect in this offense is senior year Jarrod West. He came down with everything that year.
 

syrBossHogg

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Let’s stop placing blame on everyone other than TD. The Oline was a train wreck last season but TD continues to make the same mental mistakes every season.
I agree ND exposed him and he has never shown that he can win consistently.
The GT game was one by the D even though the offense was inept.
The season before we won Duke with the run game. Wake was Welch.
I hope there is great improvement but I do not see it happening. I’m just glad we have back ups that give us a chance to win.

TD def has some blame, some of the sacks given up are on him and his inaccuracy outside of the pocket is an issue. I just try to call it as I see it, to me the biggest issue with the offense is the offensive line play.
 

TheCusian

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Let’s stop placing blame on everyone other than TD. The Oline was a train wreck last season but TD continues to make the same mental mistakes every season.
I agree ND exposed him and he has never shown that he can win consistently.
The GT game was one by the D even though the offense was inept.
The season before we won Duke with the run game. Wake was Welch.
I hope there is great improvement but I do not see it happening. I’m just glad we have back ups that give us a chance to win.
Good gravy. Blame is on everyone - including TD. He had an ok season in 2019. We ran less plays (less tempo) and he put up numbers that are pretty good historically.

Tommy had 2 TD and 1 INT vs GTech. 141 passer rating.

Tommy had 3 TD vs Duke.

He was hurt vs Wake and got pulled.
There’s zero doubt that he’s been disappointing relative to the hype and that he’s got a ton of issues to work on… but people here are really loathe to give him credit for anything which is weird
 

TheCusian

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TD is a statistical anomaly. His QB ratings are great but his production isn't there. Also he has done a lot of damage in garbage time as a starter, which somewhat explains his stats.

Additionally I was comparing the two as starters. IMO TD's best game was by far the 2018 FSU game, but he did not start that game. UNC he was amazing for a FR and showed great potential, but again he did not start that game. Teams were not prepping for his skill set. I am saying since becoming a starter he has shown very little (really since UNC as vs ND he was a disaster).

Which is why the fluke comment. He has played in 18 games since that 2018 UNC game and in none of them did he remind you of that UNC game we saw from him. So when one of these things is not like the other? The MD game TD was garbage the first few drives. He played great in the 2nd half but the game was well over. The USC game Nassib didn't have a garbage start.

My main point was Nassib led us to victories with his arm as both a Soph and Jr starter in a non QB friendly system. TD in a QB friendly system has led us to only a win over WMU with his arm as a Soph and Jr starter. In fairness he only had 1/3 of a season last year.
I’m loathe to give QBs credit for wins and losses. Playing well in defeat is still playing well. There’s no doubt that Nassib played better through 3.5 years than Tommy has in 1.5. But the stats aren’t so different and the OL and running game was better under Marrone. We’ve not seen Tommy with a mediocre line.
 

Cuse12

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He will not have two games. If he cannot move the ball against Ohio immediately he will be replaced.
If he isn’t then that’s a major issue. Give him the first quarter unless it’s so bad he can’t even make it a quarter. Tommy’s seat should be the hottest QB seat in the country.
 

javadoc

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IMO you can't learn much from last year that can be applied to this. Last year was like playing against a 1AA - you don't learn a lot about the team. Looking closely, the few things you can learn from last year are positive.
 

Geode

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It’s always about this time of year that I start to feel the itch. Camp’s around the corner, pre-season NFL’s creeping up… Hard to explain it, but you can feel it.

It’s my favorite time of the year, always the optimist, there’s endless possibilities.

Here are my thoughts on the ‘21 version of the best gd collegiate football team in NY.

I’ll start with defense bc we’ve been beating the offense to death with a 2x4.

Its hard not to be optimistic about the defense.

Year 2 of the Tony White era. Certainly overachieved during his first season. A full Spring and a season worth of seasoning in his system should pay dividends. I don’t know that it will materialize statistically (bc alot of that is determined by offensive efficiency) but our defense will be formidable and give our offense opportunities. I’m bullish on Tony - home run hire.

We return the majority of the DL, who is experienced. This was a big W for us as a lot of talent in the secondary departed. It is crucial for the front to be effective against the run.

At LB we have talent all over the place. I’m really excited to see the young Buck’s with another year of development flying around and laying sticks. Mikel & Marlow are studs. Stefan Thompson’s not too far off. I like these guys.

The Secondary is going to need to be lead by G and Ja’Had. After that, bow you heads and hope with me. The front 6 or 7 are going to really have to support these guys as they get their sea legs.

ST’s - after Szmytster - a lot of variables. We’ll be fine at returner, but P has me a little scurred… We’ve overperformed here over the years, let’s hope that continues.

Offensively - you guys really wanna cover this again?

I think the line play will be markedly improved. With that being said, we were pretty terrible, so it’s all relative. More depth, health and experience should all be positives. Wrap those rosary beads one more time here.

We will be absolutely fine at RB. Between Tucker (really good), Jarveon and Pena/ThunderousThunder, we’ll be okay.

At WR - I like Queeley’s stability and Taj’s ability. After that, we gonna find out, but I think Courtney Jackson has potential and I’m always excited to see young guys fly around.

The $1M question - who’s slinging it? It’s TD to start with Shredder on the sideline helmet buckled. Short leash and probable committee duty, we’ll see both early. Like most definitely against Ohio.

Honestly, I think Dino’s coaching for his job early. Handle biz in OOC, and get the train rollin’. If not, we ain’t goin’ bowlin’. And then, Wildhack’s gonna be pink slip dolin’.

I do think this squad can get rolling and eligible for a bowl game. But there’s going to have to be monumental improvement from the offense for that to happen.

Here’s to a great season ladies & gents…
I appreciate the optimistic viewpoint here. I still follow the preseason build up but I have less and less faith in demonstrable progress as the years seem to flow by. Appreciate the positive outlook here and the reminder that this is a new season.
 

TheCusian

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People’s assessment of Tommy has really really fallen off a cliff. His 2019 numbers were pretty good historically - especially for a first year starter.

I think he has more rope. Shredder will play some regardless, IMO.
 

money3189

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People’s assessment of Tommy has really really fallen off a cliff. His 2019 numbers were pretty good historically - especially for a first year starter.

I think he has more rope. Shredder will play some regardless, IMO.
I agree I have my critiques about him but some act like Tommy is a scrub. He has some great qualities he just has to put it all together. He's the type that needs everyone else to do their job well. He is not going create on his own.
 

orangepassion

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I agree I have my critiques about him but some act like Tommy is a scrub. He has some great qualities he just has to put it all together. He's the type that needs everyone else to do their job well. He is not going create on his own.
Exactly my thoughts-Reminds me of Ken O'brien of NY Jets lore.
 

cusefan88

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Not mentioned often but I'll take a shot in the dark: Jason Simmons the transfer DB becomes a starter within 3 games and becomes one of the defensive leaders. Son of an NFL coach, HS football in Texas.

He is going to be a big-time player.
 

SuFTW

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People’s assessment of Tommy has really really fallen off a cliff. His 2019 numbers were pretty good historically - especially for a first year starter.

I think he has more rope. Shredder will play some regardless, IMO.
Yes we know Devito still has potential but Dino’s job may be on the line depending how the season goes.

While his numbers may have been historic for SU, Devito’s 2019 numbers were not what many expected for a highly touted, 4 star, 3rd year player with significant game experience and who garnered some preseason dark horse Heisman buzz.

Maybe that’s a fault of the expectations and the hype and not on Devito.
People’s current assessments of Devito are based on watching him the last two years. It’s no wonder they fell of a cliff, regardless of the O-line issues. If the O-line is good and Devito is gunslinging people will be back on the bandwagon in no time.


For 2019 on Sports-Reference Devito was ranked based on passing efficiency rating 57 out of 102. Not horrendous.
2019 Passing Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com


On ESPN’s rankings he did not fare as well. For 2019 on ESPN, Devito’s ranking based on PAA was 104 out of 122.
For Ranking based on QBR he was 92 out of 122.

2019 College Football Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

2019 College Football Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN
 

HRE Otto IV

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People’s assessment of Tommy has really really fallen off a cliff. His 2019 numbers were pretty good historically - especially for a first year starter.

I think he has more rope. Shredder will play some regardless, IMO.

We have struggled to move the ball and score points when he has been in at QB. That isn't all on him but he is a factor. Sacks are partially on him. Those kill drives but do nothing to his QB rating. The fact is we have struggled to score 20 points when he is in. If you aren't progressing the drive or scoring pints the QB stat is meaningless. You can't win games scoring 20 ppg.
 

baggerbob

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We have struggled to move the ball and score points when he has been in at QB. That isn't all on him but he is a factor. Sacks are partially on him. Those kill drives but do nothing to his QB rating. The fact is we have struggled to score 20 points when he is in. If you aren't progressing the drive or scoring pints the QB stat is meaningless. You can't win games scoring 20 ppg.
Kicking Field Goals doesn't win games in college, scoring Touchdowns does. We haven't scored a lot of TD's the last 2 years.
 

IthacaMatt

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I'm going to be optimistic regardless. I personally think if Shrader is better in practice he should get the shot to change things up, but if TD is better I am fine with him there again. Just make it a legit open competition where the better player gets the start is all I ask


The team will know who's playing best.
 

IthacaMatt

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I’m loathe to give QBs credit for wins and losses. Playing well in defeat is still playing well. There’s no doubt that Nassib played better through 3.5 years than Tommy has in 1.5. But the stats aren’t so different and the OL and running game was better under Marrone. We’ve not seen Tommy with a mediocre line.

The 2019 should have been at least "mediocre", coming off a 10 win season, and only losing 1 starter.
 

JRHEETER

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I agree I have my critiques about him but some act like Tommy is a scrub. He has some great qualities he just has to put it all together. He's the type that needs everyone else to do their job well. He is not going create on his own.

So are you saying he’s the kinda guy where everyone else needs to play well to make him look good?

Tommy has had happy feet when he drops back, he’s been scared for his life ever since he came into that Notre Dame Game at Yankee Stadium, which to be fair, isn’t all his fault. But he hasn’t trusted his line or his teammates for the last two years.

Dino says that seemed to have calmed this off-season, hoping to see that. Hoping to see TD excel.

But if he doesn’t, I’m not going to waste any tears over seeing Shrader come in or even Morgan.
 

TheCusian

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Yes we know Devito still has potential but Dino’s job may be on the line depending how the season goes.

While his numbers may have been historic for SU, Devito’s 2019 numbers were not what many expected for a highly touted, 4 star, 3rd year player with significant game experience and who garnered some preseason dark horse Heisman buzz.

Maybe that’s a fault of the expectations and the hype and not on Devito.
People’s current assessments of Devito are based on watching him the last two years. It’s no wonder they fell of a cliff, regardless of the O-line issues. If the O-line is good and Devito is gunslinging people will be back on the bandwagon in no time.


For 2019 on Sports-Reference Devito was ranked based on passing efficiency rating 57 out of 102. Not horrendous.
2019 Passing Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com


On ESPN’s rankings he did not fare as well. For 2019 on ESPN, Devito’s ranking based on PAA was 104 out of 122.
For Ranking based on QBR he was 92 out of 122.

2019 College Football Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

2019 College Football Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN
Yep. Expectations were high and when he didn’t carry them people jumped ship. There’s still a lot of good there and it’s possible he puts it together. If he doesn’t we’re in better shape than the last two seasons.

19 TD and 5 INT with a 60% or so completion rate isn’t nothing. Better OL, better RB should help him.
 

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