Sure enough, they're going to give away the good home games

[IthacaBarrel]

Before we all go off the deepend, we all need to calm down and wonder what the 800 lb gorilla would say. Would ESPN give the ACC more money to move a marque gameday game with Dicki V, where the number 1 and 3 winning coaches in history could play before the largest on campus crowd in history to madison square garden? No matter what the commissioner and Nancy might have said ESPN will always have their say.

Probably a win win for ESPN...

 

[Jake]

I cannot express how pissed off I am that they are even considering moving games from the dome to NYC for hoops. Football is the struggling program…move games to the moon if you have to….but Hoops? We are **king Syracuse. S-Y-R-A-C-U-S-E. You cannot move a conference home game 4 hours away.

 

[SU94]

If 2 weeks ago, I approached any of you and said,

"I can secure SU a spot in the ACC and all of its football riches, but you'd only get UNC and Duke hoops in the Dome twice the first decade---instead of thrice. Would you have taken the deal?

I sure as stuff hope you would have said, "yes, where do I sign."

With the caveat that everything right now is pure conjecture ... I would think this ACC game(s) in NYC would set the tone for the ACC Tournament being played at MSG or in Brooklyn.

Other thoughts:
*UVa moved one home ACC hoops games per year to the Richmond Coliseum back in the late 90s.
*Indiana moved a B10 home game to DC last year against Penn State.
*Years ago, Northwestern played Notre Dame at Soldier Field. Not entirely the same, but not entirely different either.
*Kentucky plays hoops games in Louisville every year. Good oppenents too.
*Maybe certain years we can fill the MSG void with Georgetown.
*Perhaps SU can set up ticket packages or bundles for the hoops and football games in NYC. Something akin to "Get Duke-SU @ MSG and Penn State-SU tickets at Meadowlands for one price of $150 (making this price up)." Add in the Big City Lax tourney too.

A LOT of good can come of this. It already has actually. First, we received the ACC bid. Secondly, just read the end of the CBSSportsline blog:

For nearly a decade Syracuse has somewhat foolishly and hopelessly marketed itself as "New York's College Team," a moniker that few in the fan base ever went out of their way to boast. Seven years ago or so, the Carrier Dome actually had a banner with this logo that ran alongside the Statue of Liberty. But there's no denying New York City -- and the cities and towns around it -- does house thousands of SU alums. The initiative to get more games in that area makes sense, and if the ACC is led into NYC much more frequently because of Syracuse's influence, this move will be as shrewd as anything the progressive Pac-12 has done.

Because, generally speaking, nothing in sports is more valuable than all New York City has to offer.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who have we moved? Seriously, I hate that term - moved. We're talking about games down the line (in football) that were never gonna be played in the Carrier Dome. And they weren't coming because the gate sucks and I am sure some football coaches feel that it's a gimmicky venue for their takeaway.

Bull. Notre Dame came to the Dome, as did Oklahoma, Nebraska, Penn State, Florida, Miami and tons of other big time programs. This is stupid and an insult to the fans.

 

[IthacaMatt]

...let's not get too carried away..."some games with Duke and NC"...is not every game...and NYC has been vital for the 'Cuse strategy for sometime. Certainly this board of fanatic 'Cuse fans such as myself, had to know that the positioning as the NYC team was just not for discussion but as a very real tactic to gain interest in 'Cuse from the ACC/Big Ten...remember last year when the thought was being the NYC team might help 'Cuse with Big 10...

Yes is sucks that some games will not be at the Dome...but it isnt like we havent played home games in NYC...we have joked about the fact it really isnt a home game like ESPN and analysts say...but you cannot have it both ways...if that positioning helped 'Cuse get into the ACC and out of a floundering BE...then here is to Cantor and the good Doc for thinking of it!!!!!

YOU DON'T MOVE YOUR VERY BEST HOME GAMES 250 MILES AWAY FROM HOME IF YOU ARE A BIG TIME PROGRAM !!!!

 

[IthacaMatt]

What is flat out terrible is remaining in the Big East, if playing one game in MSG every year is what pushed over the top, then so be it. I would much rather play in a bastardized Big East conference, earning 30% of the conference revenue... Cantor spoke about packing the dome versus UNC and Duke, so surely there seems to be some compromise working. Whatever needed to be done was done.

If Syracuse is New York's college team then playing a game a year in MSG for hoops and maybe a game a year in the Meadowlands is fine with me, all I know is what we had for 8 years wasn't working as a whole and if we needed to leverage our strengths to land in the ACC then so be it. It's done now. IT HAD TO BE DONE

I am actually enjoying this forward thinking by Cantor and Gross much ike the west coast football trips, keep it up, great job.

Yes, we can play a game or two in the Garden every year - that's what these pre-season tournaments are for. YOU DON'T MOVE YOUR CONFERENCE HOME GAMES 250 MILES AWAY FROM HOME. It screams that we are a second rate team to give up our home games against high profile opponents.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I read here all the time that SU has a tremendous advantage when they play in MSG, not true?

Yes, for neutral court games. Not for home games against conference opponents. If you were Duke or Carolina, would you rather play SU in the Dome, or at the Garden? No contest.

 

[Victory Lap]

Moving any conference game to a neutral venue is complete garbage. I don't care if we move the Wake Forest game to MSG once every decade, it's still awful. Nobody in the ACC does it now, so we will be the only conference school doing this. Its so small time for any major program, especially a program of our stature.

right. playing high profile games in MSG (our "second home" as per JB, KJ and SJ, at least) against two of the top programs in the country is going to really hurt our prestige.

 

[rrlbees]

She did say that she still plans on playing Duke/ UNC in the dome as well. For all we know we wind up playing Maryland in the Garden

I want Smokefree in the Dome.

 

[Bayside44]

Bull. Notre Dame came to the Dome, as did Oklahoma, Nebraska, Penn State, Florida, Miami and tons of other big time programs. This is stupid and an insult to the fans.

They all came ages ago. College football is a far different animal today. There's been a ton written on this topic...certain schools having a hard time getting home and homes because of the lack of balance between venues and payouts, more neutral site games. We see it in the NBE - Cincy moving games, Rutgers refusing Giants Stadium, 2 for 1 type deals, etc. How many times has a NBE school had the experience WVU had last Saturday night in the past eight years?

There was also a time when 18 year old legally bought booze, everyone smoked, and manufacturing was king. Times change.

 

[rrlbees]

They all came ages ago. College football is a far different animal today. There's been a ton written on this topic...certain schools having a hard time getting home and homes because of the lack of balance between venues and payouts, more neutral site games. We see it in the NBE - Cincy moving games, Rutgers refusing Giants Stadium, 2 for 1 type deals, etc. How many times has a NBE school had the experience WVU had last Saturday night in the past eight years?

There was also a time when 18 year old legally bought booze, everyone smoked, and manufacturing was king. Times change.

we've only done this about 6 times before, so i wont drag out the schedules again, but why do the marquee teams show up at rutgers, uconn and others in our peer group or below?

 

[Bayside44]

The next day, the ACC announced the news publicly. In the news release that announced SU’s move, Cantor said, “We look forward to bringing ACC games to the Big Apple.”

“We haven’t gotten that far, but we absolutely have plans to do that – absolutely,” Cantor said of moving some SU home games to a New York City arena, such as Madison Square Garden.
“I wanted to make sure that (the ACC was) interested in playing competitions in the New York City area, because that’s very important to us,” Cantor said. “We see ourselves as New York’s college team.”
That doesn’t mean fans won’t be able to also catch the North Carolina and Duke games in the Carrier Dome some seasons, she said. “I’m really looking forward to the day we get 60,000 Central New Yorkers in the Carrier Dome for Duke or North Carolina,” Cantor said. SU remains committed to keeping those games at the Dome on a regular basis, she said.

Above is Cantor's quote. She wants to compete in NYC. Cannot tell the way it was written, but she doesn't say MSG, the reporter puts that in. She talks about playing Duke and UNC in the Dome. She said they haven't gotten that far - which means she cannot have plans even though she said she has plans...which can lead one to believe that she is babbling.


There's been talk about the ACC hoops tourney in NYC.

 

[Bayside44]

we've only done this about 6 times before, so i wont drag out the schedules again, but why do the marquee teams show up at rutgers, uconn and others in our peer group or below?

The most interesting program that has played at Rutgers that I can remember is UNC and some years ago Michigan State.

What no one has posted here is what is the payout for going to the Carrier Dome verses some of these other venues. We've got about 40 threads on empty seats, cheap seats, free seats, etc.

Right now we have USC, Notre Dame, and a the 1 of the 1-1-1 of PSU at Giants Stadium. If we schedule the UNCs and Purdue's of the world there, sure, I get it. But, if they schedule programs that will never go to Syracuse (and they get a big hit - which they needed when we were in the NBE), that's a different animal.

 

[rrlbees]

The next day, the ACC announced the news publicly. In the news release that announced SU’s move, Cantor said, “We look forward to bringing ACC games to the Big Apple.”

“We haven’t gotten that far, but we absolutely have plans to do that – absolutely,” Cantor said of moving some SU home games to a New York City arena, such as Madison Square Garden.
“I wanted to make sure that (the ACC was) interested in playing competitions in the New York City area, because that’s very important to us,” Cantor said. “We see ourselves as New York’s college team.”
That doesn’t mean fans won’t be able to also catch the North Carolina and Duke games in the Carrier Dome some seasons, she said. “I’m really looking forward to the day we get 60,000 Central New Yorkers in the Carrier Dome for Duke or North Carolina,” Cantor said. SU remains committed to keeping those games at the Dome on a regular basis, she said.

Above is Cantor's quote. She wants to compete in NYC. Cannot tell the way it was written, but she doesn't say MSG, the reporter puts that in. She talks about playing Duke and UNC in the Dome. She said they haven't gotten that far - which means she cannot have plans even though she said she has plans...which can lead one to believe that she is babbling.

There's been talk about the ACC hoops tourney in NYC.

All I have to read is

“We haven’t gotten that far, but we absolutely have plans to do that – absolutely

 

[Bayside44]

All I have to read is

“We haven’t gotten that far, but we absolutely have plans to do that – absolutely

It's a sentence that contradicts itself.

 

[rrlbees]

The most interesting program that has played at Rutgers that I can remember is UNC and some years ago Michigan State.

What no one has posted here is what is the payout for going to the Carrier Dome verses some of these other venues. We've got about 40 threads on empty seats, cheap seats, free seats, etc.

Right now we have USC, Notre Dame, and a the 1 of the 1-1-1 of PSU at Giants Stadium. If we schedule the UNCs and Purdue's of the world there, sure, I get it. But, if they schedule programs that will never go to Syracuse (and they get a big hit - which they needed when we were in the NBE), that's a different animal.

I'm talking future schedules.

 

[shandeezy7]

The easy answer to this is that SU can only propose things that SU has direct control over. We can propose SU games in NYC but we don't have the authority to unilaterally propose most of your other ideas.

Also, my guess is that it has a bit to do with the whining from NYC fans (and possibly NYC $$$ donors) who are upset at losing SU presence in the Big Apple.

Bingo!!! Money talks, and I am sure there are more than a few big time NYC donors who are pi$$ed off that they won't be able to go see SU play in the NYC metro area nearly as much as they could before. This is just a way to appease those donors and keep the $$$$ flowing in.

 

[NKR1978]

“I’m really looking forward to the day we get 60,000 Central New Yorkers in the Carrier Dome for Duke or North Carolina,” Cantor said. SU remains committed to keeping those games at the Dome on a regular basis, she said.

Settle down papa bear. You are attacking a straw man.

It's amazing that people are up in arms and then completely glossing over the fact that she intends to move the court to the middle of the Dome for UNC and Duke. The most surprising thing about this statement is the 60,000 - I would have guessed 54,000 tops.

Also, how do we know that we wont have a series with Duke (or UNC) where over two seasons we play two games at MSG and one each at the Dome and at Cameron. I doubt this is the case, but who knows - everything is speculation.

People screaming that the University doesn't care about fans must have just missed the whole thing where we're going to the ACC and are guaranteed to be a BCS program in perpetuity. I also love that some people are acting like we're the ones who could have been dictating terms. If John Swofford complained that he didn't want another orange team in the ACC we might have gone back to our traditional pink and pea green.

 

[pfister1]

Bingo!!! Money talks, and I am sure there are more than a few big time NYC donors who are pi$$ed off that they won't be able to go see SU play in the NYC metro area nearly as much as they could before. This is just a way to appease those donors and keep the $$$$ flowing in.

It has zero to do with appeasing donors...... donors are typically fans of the program who are all about seeing the program win. A donor wouldn't want SU to give up its home court advantage in a conference game and put itself at less of a competitive advantage in an important game.

There is a world of difference between scheduling a non conference game in a location that is over 4 hours from campus and scheduling a conference game that you are entitled to host on your campus in a location that is over 4 hours from that campus. An arena in NYC is not a home game.

 

[thebigeast44]

And with this, our better days are likely behind us. I have the same feelings as Jake, Bees and others who have posted their displeasure. While IthacaBarrel talks about survival, I'm not interested in surviving, I'm interested in thriving.

Tell me how we are going to thrive in the ACC compared to our history in the Big East. I don't see it. Moving games out of the Dome - are you kidding me$#@! We're the Syracuse Orangemen not the NYC Orange! We lose our home court advantage for some very difficult games and gain what?! Another game(s) for NYC alumni to attend? I know alums are a key group that any President needs to keep happy but there are other ways to have SU play in the Big Apple without giving up home games. If Cantor really wants to live in NYC, apply for a job down there and get the hell out of Syracuse.

To Bees point that the potential division set-ups will likely result in not facing the Duke and North Carolinas very often means we'll be joining a basketball conference that is much less attractive than the current or original Big East.

How all of this affects recruiting is up in the air right now - it certainly does not help us in any battles we have with Duke or North Carolina. I'd imagine it will be a net negative as the impact of moving games decreases overall attendance at home.

We have been asked to give up more and more during Cantor's and Gross's time here. Neither appear to be very strong negotiators. When will it end and how might we view their era in 10+ years? That remains to be seen.

I hope I'm wrong and the next 10+ years are great ones for SU hoops. I do think we'll have a better 10 years in football (not saying much of course) and the rest of our sports programs should be OK. Regardless, I'll still be cheering on my Orangemen, just not as often at big games in the Dome

Edit - JB and Gross now say that Cantor did not mean ANY home ACC games would move out of the Dome - let's hope they are right and Cantor comes out and officially retracts her comments soon. Or better yet, replace Cantor with JB and we'll have someone who really is looking out for the best interests of Syracuse

 

[OttoMets]

As some of us said, nothing to get worked up about: http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/09/home_sweet_dome_boeheim_gross.html

 

[rrlbees]

As some of us said, nothing to get worked up about: http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/09/home_sweet_dome_boeheim_gross.html

That's JB. Not Cantor retracting what she she said.

 

[NKR1978]

That's JB. Not Cantor retracting what she she said.

JB and Gross.

 

[rrlbees]

JB and Gross.

OK, JB and Gross. Still not a retraction by Cantor. Also know that all of these conference moves are being led by Presidents and Chancellors, not the AD's of the world at individual schools. I don't trust Cantor and I'll wait till I hear her admit she misspoke or see a schedule.

PS: Do you remember when SU said we were playing a home and home with USC and would get them in the Dome?

 

[orange79]

JB and Gross.

Important distinction there