Syracuse’s Roster Build - Archetypes

[Acesn8s]

We call those teams losers

 

[CuseSaint26]

I think Bryce Zephir is in this category and I assume we may see 1-2 more in this category too. Alex Kline basically confirms that with his tweet. Although from a strictly stats perspective, they may not contribute much, they will be critical pieces of the team.

I am still holding out that Syracuse is targeting one more high NIL/impact type player.

 

[CuseSaint26]

I think Bryce Zephir is in this category and I assume we may see 1-2 more in this category too. Alex Kline basically confirms that with his tweet. Although from a strictly stats perspective, they may not contribute much, they will be critical pieces of the team.

I am still holding out that Syracuse is targeting one more high NIL/impact type player.

Some names I’d monitor…

Daniel Tobiloba - USF
Casper Pohto - Sweden
Jack Seidler - UCLA (Not sure how reliable because not sure he’s actually entered transfer portal)
Rashaun Agee - USC

 

[bnoro]

We call those teams losers

You've never played team sports if you don't understand the importance of glue guys that try hard in practice and are high character. Crazy take.

 

[Acesn8s]

You've never played team sports if you don't understand the importance of glue guys that try hard in practice and are high character. Crazy take.

I’ve played sports at all levels first except pro obviously, second this isn’t amateur sports anymore, teams with high payrolls win, Ohio State had a 20 million dollar roster for football, Florida had a huge payroll for hoops, there won’t be many feel good stories anymore that’s why colleges are hiring GM, that’s why walk ins are a thing of the past, In basketball do you see teams like St. John’s and Dukes and SEC schools with feel good stories as their guys coming off the bench, the answer is no, it’s still guys who cost a pretty penny. So I don’t think my take is crazy, I think there are some people who don’t see what world we live in now and realize winning costs. And for the record I hate it, but I hate losing as well.

 

[Orangezoo]

I’ve played sports at all levels first except pro obviously, second this isn’t amateur sports anymore, teams with high payrolls win, Ohio State had a 20 million dollar roster for football, Florida had a huge payroll for hoops, there won’t be many feel good stories anymore that’s why colleges are hiring GM, that’s why walk ins are a thing of the past, In basketball do you see teams like St. John’s and Dukes and SEC schools with feel good stories as their guys coming off the bench, the answer is no, it’s still guys who cost a pretty penny. So I don’t think my take is crazy, I think there are some people who don’t see what world we live in now and realize winning costs. And for the record I hate it, but I hate losing as well.

I don’t see where your point is at all unless you are changing it. Not a single contender is putting guys that would start or be in another P4 teams rotation at the end of their bench. Since you have played you know there are always a couple guys who are essentially garbage time only who are key in the effort they put into practice and in game planning to prepare for specific opponents. No one is arguing that talent wins but to argue that teams need to be spending big on their roster spots 12-15 makes no sense and show me an example that this is actually happening.

There are two things happening here that make sense for success and that is you have to have a war chest for the guys who are part of the rotation and right on the cusp ( spots 1-11 while filing out with developmental and hard working practice players that cost much less if not anything )

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’ve played sports at all levels first except pro obviously, second this isn’t amateur sports anymore, teams with high payrolls win, Ohio State had a 20 million dollar roster for football, Florida had a huge payroll for hoops, there won’t be many feel good stories anymore that’s why colleges are hiring GM, that’s why walk ins are a thing of the past, In basketball do you see teams like St. John’s and Dukes and SEC schools with feel good stories as their guys coming off the bench, the answer is no, it’s still guys who cost a pretty penny. So I don’t think my take is crazy, I think there are some people who don’t see what world we live in now and realize winning costs. And for the record I hate it, but I hate losing as well.

Actually you do. The end of Dukes bench didn’t play. They played 10 guys. Florida played even less at 7.

 

[Acesn8s]

I don’t see where your point is at all unless you are changing it. Not a single contender is putting guys that would start or be in another P4 teams rotation at the end of their bench. Since you have played you know there are always a couple guys who are essentially garbage time only who are key in the effort they put into practice and in game planning to prepare for specific opponents. No one is arguing that talent wins but to argue that teams need to be spending big on their roster spots 12-15 makes no sense and show me an example that this is actually happening.

There are two things happening here that make sense for success and that is you have to have a war chest for the guys who are part of the rotation and right on the cusp ( spots 1-11 while filing out with developmental and hard working practice players that cost much less if not anything )

Olivier Rioux's nil for Florida was 1.5 million last year he didn’t take a shot all year they paid for his potential. There is your example

 

[Orangezoo]

Olivier Rioux's nil for Florida was 1.5 million last year he didn’t take a shot all year they paid for his potential. There is your example

So you have one example and it’s one guy who just happens to be the tallest guy in college basketball? Sorry but that example does not make your case whatsoever.

I already pointed out guys on the cusp which is not what that tweet was about at all which is about guys like Zephyr.
Not to mention Rioux is an extremely unique player.

 

[Acesn8s]

So you have one example and it’s one guy who just happens to be the tallest guy in college basketball? Sorry but that example does not make your case whatsoever.

I already pointed out guys on the cusp which is not what that tweet was about at all. It’s about guys like Zephyr.

You said give me ONE example I did it without 30 seconds of research. Now you say it doesn’t count. Bottom line the teams that are willing to invest up and down their roster will have a huge advantage, the small guys will get eaten alive. Last year we had fewer upsets in the tourney then I can ever remember. It’s a have vs have nots world that’s it.

 

[Orangezoo]

You said give me ONE example I did it without 30 seconds of research. Now you say it doesn’t count. Bottom line the teams that are willing to invest up and down their roster will have a huge advantage, the small guys will get eaten alive. Last year we had fewer upsets in the tourney then I can ever remember. It’s a have vs have nots world that’s it.

How much did they pay the rest of the guys that filled out the rest of their roster? Also one example wasn’t one player. I’m talking about a team which is my understanding what we are discussing here. You cherry picked a unique player who had no stats. That doesn’t mean UF payed everyone who barely played or not at all well.

 

[Acesn8s]

How much did they pay the rest of the guys that filled out the rest of their roster? Also one example wasn’t one player. I’m talking about a team which is my understanding what we are discussing here. You cherry picked a unique player who had no stats. That doesn’t mean UF payed everyone who barely played or not at all well.

Ok malachi smith from Dayton is going to UConn he will be the 7th or 8th guy on the court depending on what Alex Karaban does rumor is he is getting about 750k. He might be 2nd guard to come off bench.

 

[Niastri]

Olivier Rioux's nil for Florida was 1.5 million last year he didn’t take a shot all year they paid for his potential. There is your example

Yup, if you were donating $1.5 million annually to the Syracuse NIL fund, we could do that too.

What’s keeping you?

 

[Acesn8s]

Yup, if you were donating $1.5 million annually to the Syracuse NIL fund, we could do that too

Yup, if you were donating $1.5 million annually to the Syracuse NIL fund, we could do that too.

What’s keeping you?

10 years salary, bills, kids, wife just that what a ridiculous statement, when did I ever even hint at what I donate? I’ll say this between 7 season football tickets, and three Hoops tickets plus other donations, plus road trips I’d say I give plenty within my means. Enough where I can comment on the situation. But maybe you can swing it and if so salute.

 

[Niastri]

10 years salary, bills, kids, wife just that what a ridiculous statement, when did I ever even hint at what I donate? I’ll say this between 7 season football tickets, and three Hoops tickets plus other donations, plus road trips I’d say I give plenty within my means. Enough where I can comment on the situation. But maybe you can swing it and if so salute.

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear in my point, I wasn’t trying to be offensive, but rather, tongue in cheek. My apologies if you took offense.

My point was, Syracuse doesn’t have that kind of budget… We have to prioritize. This year, Starling, Kingz, George, Kyle and Freeman got most of our funds. That is a very good haul of talent. We’re fortunate to still have enough to get Betsey and be in the market for other good players still.

It sounds like Florida was able to pay market rate for the very best starters, a great 5-8 in the rotation, and still had money left over for a guy they didn’t even play. No wonder they won the National Championship!

In what way do you think that has any relevance to Syracuse’s situation? Especially this past season, when we couldn’t afford a decent 6-8 in the rotation, and had to play low major super seniors instead?

 

[Acesn8s]

I’m sorry I wasn’t clear in my point, I wasn’t trying to be offensive, but rather, tongue in cheek. My apologies if you took offense.

My point was, Syracuse doesn’t have that kind of budget… We have to prioritize. This year, Starling, Kingz, George, Kyle and Freeman got most of our funds. That is a very good haul of talent. We’re fortunate to still have enough to get Betsey and be in the market for other good players still.

It sounds like Florida was able to pay market rate for the very best starters, a great 5-8 in the rotation, and still had money left over for a guy they didn’t even play. No wonder they won the National Championship!

In what way do you think that has any relevance to Syracuse’s situation? Especially this past season, when we couldn’t afford a decent 6-8 in the rotation, and had to play low major super seniors instead?

My humble apologies, I think the relevance is simply it shows what it takes to compete at highest level and it’s very expensive.

 

[bnoro]

Ok malachi smith from Dayton is going to UConn he will be the 7th or 8th guy on the court depending on what Alex Karaban does rumor is he is getting about 750k. He might be 2nd guard to come off bench.

We're not talking about the 7th or 8th guy on the court. We're talking about 12-15. Zephir should hopefully never play meaningful minutes for us unless we have a serious injury. You need guys like that on your roster.

 

[Niastri]

My humble apologies, I think the relevance is simply it shows what it takes to compete at highest level and it’s very expensive.

Yup yup, we were kind of making the same point.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ok malachi smith from Dayton is going to UConn he will be the 7th or 8th guy on the court depending on what Alex Karaban does rumor is he is getting about 750k. He might be 2nd guard to come off bench.

And our 7th man is likely Kiyan Anthony. It’s not Zepher. He’s the 12th guy on the roster. Florida’s 12th guy is someone who’s name I cannot pronounce and played a grand total of 6 games last year.

 

[CuseSaint26]

And our 7th man is likely Kiyan Anthony. It’s not Zepher. He’s the 12th guy on the roster. Florida’s 12th guy is someone whose name I cannot pronounce and played a grand total of 6 games last year.

Our 7th, 8th, 9th guy is probably Kiyan, Sadiq White and Souare/Fennel. I’m assuming Betsey is our 6th man in this scenario

In recent times, have we had a bench even close to that? At least on paper, no. That’s an elite scorer (to be proven), 5 star, quality back up center/international pro

 

[Cusefan0307]

Our 7th, 8th, 9th guy is probably Kiyan, Sadiq White and Souare/Fennel. I’m assuming Betsey is our 6th man in this scenario

In recent times, have we had a bench even close to that? At least on paper, no. That’s an elite scorer (to be proven), 5 star, quality back up center/international pro

The hyperventilating about the amount of money players get instead of actual production is ridiculous. Rioux from Florida is getting NIL from outside companies not even associated with the university because of his height. It’s not coming from Florida boosters.

Aj Storr got 2 million dollars last year from Kansas boosters and was absolutely terrible last year.

 

[CuseSaint26]

The hyperventilating about the amount of money players get instead of actual production is ridiculous. Rioux from Florida is getting NIL from outside companies not even associated with the university because of his height. It’s not coming from Florida boosters.

Aj Storr got 2 million dollars last year from Kansas boosters and was absolutely terrible last year.

NIL $$ does not equal production. If we are concerned with NIL for our bench guys, Kiyan is probably making lots of $$ in NIL, just did an ad with DoorDash

 

[hoopsupstate]

Kiyan is a walking ATM

 

[MikeSU02]

And our 7th man is likely Kiyan Anthony. It’s not Zepher. He’s the 12th guy on the roster. Florida’s 12th guy is someone who’s name I cannot pronounce and played a grand total of 6 games last year.

Agreed.

Also, I'd argue that our bar for next year is different than a Florida who obviously just won a chip.

Totally different expectations.

I think everyone that is pessimistic (and I'm not saying that people shouldn't be after our last 10 years or whatever), which also includes me a bit until I can see Red really coach, should give Red *some* grace based on the off-season, in terms of a goal of just making the NCAAT.

And just having a rounded-out roster, a good locker room, a bit of depth in case some guys get dinged and not worrying about key guys at the last minute should give Red the ammo to have a competent team that should make the NCAAT.

Again, anyone can view my posting history and knows I've been anything but rah rah about Red and the program. But I think it's unfair to not acknowledge that this off-season has been much better than previous ones and, while Red may still have to prove his coaching chops, the steps that have been taken to improve the program do seem to be ones that *should* get us to the NCAAT (again, if Red can prove his coaching worth).

 

[Cusefan0307]

Agreed.

Also, I'd argue that our bar for next year is different than a Florida who obviously just won a chip.

Totally different expectations.

I think everyone that is pessimistic (and I'm not saying that people shouldn't be after our last 10 years or whatever), which also includes me a bit until I can see Red really coach, should give Red *some* grace based on the off-season, in terms of a goal of just making the NCAAT.

And just having a rounded-out roster, a good locker room, a bit of depth in case some guys get dinged and not worrying about key guys at the last minute should give Red the ammo to have a competent team that should make the NCAAT.

Again, anyone can view my posting history and knows I've been anything but rah rah about Red and the program. But I think it's unfair to not acknowledge that this off-season has been much better than previous ones and, while Red may still have to prove his coaching chops, the steps that have been taken to improve the program do seem to be ones that *should* get us to the NCAAT (again, if Red can prove his coaching worth).

Agree 100% and on the same page as you. I only brought up Florida because the previous poster did. Very few teams will have a 12th man that can contribute. That said if Red does not make the tourney this year I put the blame squarely on him. We signed who we targeted early in the portal. Choosing to keep JJ was our decision. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but this is not the same situation as last year where we missed on all the early targets.