Syracuse and GM Alex Kline / Entire Staff Part Ways

[Scooch]

And then the George question - I don't think it was an evaluation mistake, or a mistake getting him (based on his performance last year), so in other words not on Kline. I just want to know if it was a coaching issue or something going on with George personally (physical and/or mental) that caused such a relatively dismal season for him

The problem was that our offensive approach was horrendous in every possible way. Who knows how good ANY of our guys really are when they were directed to execute in that slop.

 

[RF2044]

And then the George question - I don't think it was an evaluation mistake, or a mistake getting him (based on his performance last year), so in other words not on Kline. I just want to know if it was a coaching issue or something going on with George personally (physical and/or mental) that caused such a relatively dismal season for him

Here is my take, this is not based on any insider info.

The program recognized that they needed a PG. Last year's team was a debacle, in no small part due to the struggles of Carlos, and their inability to land any other PG prospect [Lefew and others] of quality. When Carlos struggling as badly as he was, the season was toast.

So this year, they made landing a more productive PG a priority, and they overpaid to land one.

But I think a significant factor in George's struggles were the complete and utter lack of offensive system. Bad coaching.

In reality, George is somewhat slow afoot, and struggles to beat people off of the bounce in half court sets. BUT he is good in transition, he has above average court vision, and despite how he shot against SMU he ended up proving to be a better shooter than I expected.

A better coach / offensive system could have coaxed more productivity out of him, even with the flaws.

 

[RF2044]

The problem was that our offensive approach was horrendous in every possible way. Who knows how good ANY of our guys really are when they were directed to execute in that slop.

Beat me to it...

 

[pearl31]

Here is my take, this is not based on any insider info.

The program recognized that they needed a PG. Last year's team was a debacle, in no small part due to the struggles of Carlos, and their inability to land any other PG prospect [Lefew and others] of quality. When Carlos struggling as badly as he was, the season was toast.

So this year, they made landing a more productive PG a priority, and they overpaid to land one.

But I think a significant factor in George's struggles were the complete and utter lack of offensive system. Bad coaching.

In reality, George is somewhat slow afoot, and struggles to beat people off of the bounce in half court sets. BUT he is good in transition, he has above average court vision, and despite how he shot against SMU he ended up proving to be a better shooter than I expected.

A better coach / offensive system could have coaxed more productivity out of him, even with the flaws.

yep, I'd agree

 

[cuseincincy]

Which tells me that the candidates they've spoken with have all put "clean house" as one of their demands.

This is even more so because of the new AD. I think people would be surprised how deep the staff turnover can go when a new AD is hired. Marketing, ticket sales, game day operations, administration etc. People in any support position should be wary until they are told otherwise by the new hires. I'd tie the AK release to the new AD wanting a clean sweep, not the new coach, of which I seriously doubt has less than 3 candidates right now. This isn't like college football and I'd hope any coach we hire will be still be working their current job next week.

 

[Fly Rodder]

And then the George question - I don't think it was an evaluation mistake, or a mistake getting him (based on his performance last year), so in other words not on Kline. I just want to know if it was a coaching issue or something going on with George personally (physical and/or mental) that caused such a relatively dismal season for him

I think Red was really reactive about roster building. He watched NC State make it to the final four with a huge center who could pass and not much else and decided he needed a huge center who could pass and they got Lampkin. Then he looked at the roster last season and was like, I've got it, we really need a shot blocking center and a real PG to support JJ and saw that Nait was the ACC leader in assists and went and spent big for him without planning for how he would fit into this team versus at GTech. Nait's statistics are nearly identical to his career numbers.

ETA: yeah, what RF and Scooch posted.

 

[pearl31]

Nait's statistics are nearly identical to his career numbers.

This is an interesting call out, I was not aware of it

 

[Fly Rodder]

This is an interesting call out, I was not aware of it

I wasn't really either until I just went and looked. It's eerie.

I would wager that Nait will go to another team next season and have a similar or better season than here - probably a more winning team, but who knows.

 

[FrancoPizza]

There are other Klines in the world.

Precisely. I used to wear Calvin because that’s all I ever knew. Then I met boxers and never looked back.

 

[OptimusOtto]

Clean break is cleanest for better or worse. Know it’s not 1:1 with the pros but how many times do you see an owner keep the GM but fire the coach or vice versa. Given the importance and power of the head coach you want to give him as clean a cupboard to be successful as possible.

 

[DoctahLexus]

And then the George question - I don't think it was an evaluation mistake, or a mistake getting him (based on his performance last year), so in other words not on Kline. I just want to know if it was a coaching issue or something going on with George personally (physical and/or mental) that caused such a relatively dismal season for him

George's efficiency numbers were no bueno at Georgia Tech. His field goal percentages were not even that far off from JJs. People said that would be less of a big deal since he is our pg, not a shooting guard, but I think the writing was on the wall that he would struggle to create open looks against better defenders. I think his market value in the portal was based on looking at his assist numbers in a vacuum. Also because there are a zillion teams who feel like they desperately need a pg so the price gets jacked up. Georgia Tech was a .500 team in George's last year. That should have been a concern with his stock too.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

There are other Klines in the world.

 

[littlereg]

I Just don’t really care either way about this and I don’t get why others do besides emotions. I want to perform and I want to win. It can be a kid from Syracuse it can be a kid from Uzbekistan.

 

[pearl31]

George's efficiency numbers were no bueno at Georgia Tech. His field goal percentages were not even that far off from JJs. People said that would be less of a big deal since he is our pg, not a shooting guard, but I think the writing was on the wall that he would struggle to create open looks against better defenders. I think his market value in the portal was based on looking at his assist numbers in a vacuum. Also because there are a zillion teams who feel like they desperately need a pg so the price gets jacked up. Georgia Tech was a .500 team in George's last year. That should have been a concern with his stock too.

yeah... It's more his TOs and just general lackadaisical effort that perplexes me

 

[Newhouser]

I wasn't really either until I just went and looked. It's eerie.

I would wager that Nait will go to another team next season and have a similar or better season than here - probably a more winning team, but who knows.

He may but he's played for two horrible teams back-to-back. He may be part of the problem.

 

[Millhouse]

It seems like any number of people can do this job. No one has articulated what unique talent he brought to the table other than really loving SU.

That's exactly how I feel.

How good can anyone be at what they did

 

[dasher]

Are we surprised? The only plus talent he identified was kyle. I know we will say red didnt go after guys that he wanted but thats the nature of the business, you are who what your results say you are

Kingz?

 

[Millhouse]

And then the George question - I don't think it was an evaluation mistake, or a mistake getting him (based on his performance last year), so in other words not on Kline. I just want to know if it was a coaching issue or something going on with George personally (physical and/or mental) that caused such a relatively dismal season for him

I just don't understand how it's not on him

His advanced numbers on basketball ref are the same as they've always been

This is why I joke about getting them access to a library with Internet access

 

[007]

It seems like any number of people can do this job. No one has articulated what unique talent he brought to the table other than really loving SU.

You mean other than the 8 years Kline spent being paid by NBA teams for his scouting, talent evaluation, NBA Draft analysis, advice on trade deadline and free agency acquisitions? Or when he developed The High School Scoop while still in high school that eventual became part of the Rivals network?

This has been "articulated" and documented multiple times since his hire.

 

[NKR1978]

You mean other than the 8 years Kline spent being paid by NBA teams for his scouting, talent evaluation, NBA Draft analysis, advice on trade deadline and free agency acquisitions? Or when he developed The High School Scoop while still in high school that eventual became part of the Rivals network?

This has been "articulated" and documented multiple times since his hire.

But it's also been articulated that a lot of those skills aren't necessary for this job. Also with his experience, there are probably hungry younger guys who come a lot cheaper with a fresh point of view.

I'm sure he's talented and everyone likes him. He has an impressive resume. I doubt the next coach's success hinges on his involvement in the program though.

 

[Ozone!]

There are other Klines in the world.

True, but that supply is not overly plentiful!

 

[SyraGus]

Here is my take, this is not based on any insider info.

The program recognized that they needed a PG. Last year's team was a debacle, in no small part due to the struggles of Carlos, and their inability to land any other PG prospect [Lefew and others] of quality. When Carlos struggling as badly as he was, the season was toast.

So this year, they made landing a more productive PG a priority, and they overpaid to land one.

But I think a significant factor in George's struggles were the complete and utter lack of offensive system. Bad coaching.

In reality, George is somewhat slow afoot, and struggles to beat people off of the bounce in half court sets. BUT he is good in transition, he has above average court vision, and despite how he shot against SMU he ended up proving to be a better shooter than I expected.

A better coach / offensive system could have coaxed more productivity out of him, even with the flaws.

I agree with all the above. One thing I might add is it’s hard to rack up assists or play team ball when no one is making an effort to get open. Seemed like our guys stood still a lot waiting to see what the guy with the ball would do, regardless of who had the ball. No back door cuts or attempts to get open using screens. We lived and ultimately died on iso action.

 

[PhatOrange]

True, but that supply is not overly plentiful!

Everyone on this board is a scout. But Everyone who makes a living off basketball has some degree of talent evaluation skill. Finding guys who fit a system and guys who have something between the ears is a bit harder to evaluate a I agree.

If the team needs an immediate impact small forward it's easy to see who's available in the portal and then you review and analyze the player and film. If I'm the head coach I'm making my own opinions on a player portal or hs anyways.

Kline isn't some wunderkind or moneyball dude. The knicks were bad.

Hodgson will by just fine without him I'm sure

 

[Ozone!]

Everyone on this board is a scout. But Everyone who makes a living off basketball has some degree of talent evaluation skill. Finding guys who fit a system and guys who have something between the ears is a bit harder to evaluate a I agree.

If the team needs an immediate impact small forward it's easy to see who's available in the portal and then you review and analyze the player and film. If I'm the head coach I'm making my own opinions on a player portal or hs anyways.

Kline isn't some wunderkind or moneyball dude. The knicks were bad.

Hodgson will by just fine without him I'm sure

Do you know Alex Kline. I don’t believe you do; if you did you wouldn’t make the comment you did. He is not only an alum and is a dynamic leader as well as he has an extensive background with the pros!

 

[hoopsupstate]

Unfortunately, you need stars to win in college basketball. Red thought Freeman and JJ were his stars. The guys they brought in were supposed to be role players to play along side those two guys. George was supposed to be a huge addition and a costly one to put them over the top. Our stars turned out to be duds and the season went the way it did.