Syracuse led NCAA in attendance in 2014-15

[dasher]

He may be a nice guy. Opinions cannot be "wrong". It's that simple.

I'm not going to try to change your opinion. For me it seems at times he emphasizes "bad" things that happen while there are some "good" things that are ignored. I don't see any reason to emphasize the negative especially when the Orange lose a game. Fans are smart enough to know when the team loses. The audience reading these stories, at least it my mind, would prefer to see some positive points in a loss. For example, one story from last season he emphasized shooting percentage. While there were a very good number of steals and good defense being played. I just thought talking about the shooting percentage after a loss is kind of negative when the team actually had some good positives which were ignored.

"Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season!" GOOD NEWS!

Opinions can't be wrong? Of course they can. If I say you are a commie racist, I would think (and hope) you would say that my opinion was factual wrong. Mike is not negative to syracuse basketball. You are wrong. That is a fact. What you are expecting is not the real world. It is not Mike's job, or any reporter's job, to print happy stats. Yes we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws but the defense was really good. That isn't the story. The story is that we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws. Your perception of a beat reporters job is not one that any real newspaper adheres to.

 

[Dave85]

Opinions can't be wrong? Of course they can. If I say you are a commie racist, I would think (and hope) you would say that my opinion was factual wrong. Mike is not negative to syracuse basketball. You are wrong. That is a fact. What you are expecting is not the real world. It is not Mike's job, or any reporter's job, to print happy stats. Yes we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws but the defense was really good. That isn't the story. The story is that we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws. Your perception of a beat reporters job is not one that any real newspaper adheres to.

"A fact is a specific detail that is true based on objective proof. An opinion is an interpretation, value judgment, or belief that cannot be proved or disproved."

My value judgment is my value judgment. Your judgment is yours. We are just going to disagree about Mike. I think Donna and the other writers do a much better job serving their audience.

Quote me one thing from any of Mike's articles where he says something that is slightly positive about the team from a fan's standpoint. It's all neutral at best. Which many people like. But for me I like Donna's tone of writing much better. She doesn't sugar coat her articles but it's not bland pabulum either.

 

[Dave85]

Opinions can't be wrong? Of course they can. If I say you are a commie racist, I would think (and hope) you would say that my opinion was factual wrong. Mike is not negative to syracuse basketball. You are wrong. That is a fact. What you are expecting is not the real world. It is not Mike's job, or any reporter's job, to print happy stats. Yes we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws but the defense was really good. That isn't the story. The story is that we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws. Your perception of a beat reporters job is not one that any real newspaper adheres to.

RE: "Syracuse basketball season has disappointing, perhaps fitting end in loss to N.C. State"

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...inting_perhaps_fitting_end_loss_nc_state.html

No ending is "fitting". There's nothing in the article to substantiate this "fitting end" BS. I'm sick of his innocent digs on the team. I know the Tar Heels are his alma mater but I thought our boys played heroically in that game. He says absolutely nothing positive. All you have is this bland pabulum: "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds." How about saying something positive about Roberson's performance?

I disagree with your opinion. There's something douchey about Mike's writing style.

P.S. Did you know "Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season!" That's positive!

 

[rrlbees]

RE: "Syracuse basketball season has disappointing, perhaps fitting end in loss to N.C. State" http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...inting_perhaps_fitting_end_loss_nc_state.html No ending is "fitting". There's nothing in the article to substantiate this "fitting end" BS. I'm sick of his innocent digs on the team. I know the Tar Heels are his alma mater but I thought our boys played heroically in that game. He says absolutely nothing positive. All you have is this bland pabulum: "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds." How about saying something positive about Roberson's performance? I disagree with your opinion. There's something douchey about Mike's writing style. P.S. Did you know "Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season!" That's positive!

You're so far off base its not funny. Like I said before, people can see whatever they want to see. It's obvious what you want to see.

 

[dasher]

RE: "Syracuse basketball season has disappointing, perhaps fitting end in loss to N.C. State"

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...inting_perhaps_fitting_end_loss_nc_state.html

No ending is "fitting". There's nothing in the article to substantiate this "fitting end" BS. I'm sick of his innocent digs on the team. I know the Tar Heels are his alma mater but I thought our boys played heroically in that game. He says absolutely nothing positive. All you have is this bland pabulum: "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds." How about saying something positive about Roberson's performance?

I disagree with your opinion. There's something douchey about Mike's writing style.

P.S. Did you know "Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season!" That's positive!

We got beat by 14 pts.? You seriously think someone should write how gutsy a performance that was? I'm not going to debate you on this. You don't understand the job of a beat writer. It isn't to be a cheerleader. It's isn't to be the P.R. wing of the Syracuse University athletic dept. It's to tell the truth. You got rolled in that game. You clearly want a reporter to kiss our butts and say it smells like roses. That is childish and not the way it works.

 

[dasher]

RE: "Syracuse basketball season has disappointing, perhaps fitting end in loss to N.C. State"

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...inting_perhaps_fitting_end_loss_nc_state.html

No ending is "fitting". There's nothing in the article to substantiate this "fitting end" BS. I'm sick of his innocent digs on the team. I know the Tar Heels are his alma mater but I thought our boys played heroically in that game. He says absolutely nothing positive. All you have is this bland pabulum: "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds." How about saying something positive about Roberson's performance?

I disagree with your opinion. There's something douchey about Mike's writing style.

P.S. Did you know "Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season!" That's positive!

You do know that Donna and Mike have totally different jobs covering the team, don't you? One is a feature writer and the other writes game stories. Totally different.

 

[Dave85]

You're so far off base its not funny. Like I said before, people can see whatever they want to see. It's obvious what you want to see.

I will try to see it your way. What you asking is "people see whatever they want to see". So you are asking me in order to "see" ignore the little negative digs in his writing style. For example, consider the following quote from the article:

"The regular season finale also served as the final game in Syracuse senior Rakeem Christmas' college career. Syracuse went to the NCAA tournament in each of his first three years, but Christmas, who had emerged as the Orange's leading scorer and rebounder this season, will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year."

So I should just ignore "will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year" because that is obviously a positive thing to say.

Just out of respect for the Christmas I would have wrote about his dramatic improvement from his Junior year and how he created a great chance to get drafted into the NBA. Instead, Mike turned it into a story about NCAA sanctions.

I will try to see it your way but I find it hard when it seems he's always pointing out something bad at the end of every sentence.

 

[Dave85]

We got beat by 14 pts.? You seriously think someone should write how gutsy a performance that was? I'm not going to debate you on this. You don't understand the job of a beat writer. It isn't to be a cheerleader. It's isn't to be the P.R. wing of the Syracuse University athletic dept. It's to tell the truth. You got rolled in that game. You clearly want a reporter to kiss our butts and say it smells like roses. That is childish and not the way it works.

I think you are missing my point. Here's what I said:

"Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds." How about saying something positive about Roberson's performance? "

All I am asking is an occasional sentence like this, "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds gave one of his best performances of the season."

Just a little sugar on the good stuff. Is that so crazy? Even if we had won the sentence would have been "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds".

I just find Mike's writing to be bland on everything positive and always emphasizing anything that is negative.

I would like to see him stop emphasizing the bad stuff. Was this even a necessary part of the story:

"In its decision, the NCAA levied a reduction of 12 scholarships over the next four years, a nine-game suspension for Boeheim and vacated 108 wins after finding the university had violations involving extra benefits to players, the university's drug policy and academic fraud."

I thought the story was about playing UNC? All the NCAA sanction stuff in the article seemed to me to be just another bunch of negative jabs at the program. I'm not asking him to be a cheerleader. But his douche writing style is not my favorite.

 

[dasher]

I think you are missing my point. Here's what I said:

"Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds." How about saying something positive about Roberson's performance? "

All I am asking an occasional sentence like this, "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds gave one of his best performances of the season."

Just a little sugar on the good stuff. Is that so crazy? Even if we had won the sentence would have been "Tyler Roberson, a sophomore forward, led the Orange with 16 points along with 11 rebounds".

I just find Mike's writing to be bland on everything positive and always emphasizing anything that is negative.

I would like to see him stop emphasizing the bad stuff. Was this even a necessary part of the story:

"In its decision, the NCAA levied a reduction of 12 scholarships over the next four years, a nine-game suspension for Boeheim and vacated 108 wins after finding the university had violations involving extra benefits to players, the university's drug policy and academic fraud."

I thought the story was about playing UNC? All the NCAA sanction stuff in the article seemed to me to be just another bunch of negative jabs at the program. I'm not asking him to be a cheerleader. But his douche writing style is not my favorite.

Once again, you are looking at this as a Syracuse fan. That's fine. But I am as big a fan as there is for as long a time as almost anyone here. Mike is an excellent reporter who has won numerous awards. He is not negative in any way towards Syracuse. He writes it as it is. Sometimes that is negative.

 

[dasher]

I will try to see it your way. What you asking is "people see whatever they want to see". So you are asking me in order to "see" ignore the little negative digs in his writing style. For example, consider the following quote from the article:

"The regular season finale also served as the final game in Syracuse senior Rakeem Christmas' college career. Syracuse went to the NCAA tournament in each of his first three years, but Christmas, who had emerged as the Orange's leading scorer and rebounder this season, will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year."

So I should just ignore "will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year" because that is obviously a positive thing to say.

Just out of respect for the Christmas I would have wrote about his dramatic improvement from his Junior year and how he created a great chance to get drafted into the NBA. Instead, Mike turned it into a story about NCAA sanctions.

I will try to see it your way but I find it hard when it seems he's always pointing out something bad at the end of every sentence.

The story about Rak's improvement would be done by a feature writer. Mike is the beat reporter. Two different things.

 

[rrlbees]

I will try to see it your way. What you asking is "people see whatever they want to see". So you are asking me in order to "see" ignore the little negative digs in his writing style. For example, consider the following quote from the article: "The regular season finale also served as the final game in Syracuse senior Rakeem Christmas' college career. Syracuse went to the NCAA tournament in each of his first three years, but Christmas, who had emerged as the Orange's leading scorer and rebounder this season, will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year." So I should just ignore "will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year" because that is obviously a positive thing to say. Just out of respect for the Christmas I would have wrote about his dramatic improvement from his Junior year and how he created a great chance to get drafted into the NBA. Instead, Mike turned it into a story about NCAA sanctions. I will try to see it your way but I find it hard when it seems he's always pointing out something bad at the end of every sentence.

There's nothing wrong with writing that fact. It's not a negative. It's just a fact.

 

[Dave85]

Once again, you are looking at this as a Syracuse fan. That's fine. But I am as big a fan as there is for as long a time as almost anyone here. Mike is an excellent reporter who has won numerous awards. He is not negative in any way towards Syracuse. He writes it as it is. Sometimes that is negative.

I will accept your criticism that he is not a fan. But he doesn't have to include negativity for the same reason:

"In its decision, the NCAA levied a reduction of 12 scholarships over the next four years, a nine-game suspension for Boeheim and vacated 108 wins after finding the university had violations involving extra benefits to players, the university's drug policy and academic fraud."

 

[Dave85]

There's nothing wrong with writing that fact. It's not a negative. It's just a fact.

I wish all my opinions were facts.

 

[dasher]

I wish all my opinions were facts.

Well, they are not. First, you need to know the difference between a beat writer and a feature writer. Second, It's not writing negative when you write the facts. It's just the truth. you want happy news. go to the Syracuse athletics cite. You get it there. I will tell you what, Mike comes on this board at least twice a year to answer our questions, ask him then. And by the way, he doesn't have to do that nor is he paid to do that. He does that to inform fans. If we get battle and Simmons, you watch how2 positive it will seem he is.

 

[Dave85]

The story about Rak's improvement would be done by a feature writer. Mike is the beat reporter. Two different things.

What does this sentence have to do with the story, "will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year." It's just throwing salt into the wound of the NCAA sanctions. The tone is negative. Christmas at the time had a very bright future regardless of the NCAA sanctions. But Mike choose to write about the NCAA sanctions. And the team would most likely not make it into the NCAA tournament just on their record. So what's the point of it? It's just negative and ignores the target audience.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[dasher]

What does this sentence have to do with the story, "will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year." It's just throwing salt into the wound of the NCAA sanctions. The tone is negative. Christmas at the time had a very bright future regardless of the NCAA sanctions. But Mike choose to write about the NCAA sanctions. And the team would most likely not make it into the NCAA tournament just on their record. So what's the point of it? It's just negative and ignores the target audience.

You are entitled to your opinion.

I suppose I could waste my time going over past stories that you would think have a positive spin. I won't.

 

[Dave85]

Well, they are not. First, you need to know the difference between a beat writer and a feature writer. Second, It's not writing negative when you write the facts. It's just the truth. you want happy news. go to the Syracuse athletics cite. You get it there. I will tell you what, Mike comes on this board at least twice a year to answer our questions, ask him then. And by the way, he doesn't have to do that nor is he paid to do that. He does that to inform fans. If we get battler and Simmons, you watch how2 positive it will seem he is.

Sorry, it's not about the difference between beat writer versus feature writer. There are plenty of facts to choose from that make up every story.

 

[Dave85]

I suppose I could waste my time going over past stories that you would think have a positive spin. I won't.

Nope, you don't have to.

 

[BlackKnight76]

What does this sentence have to do with the story, "will not get the chance to shine on college basketball's biggest stage in his senior year." It's just throwing salt into the wound of the NCAA sanctions. The tone is negative. Christmas at the time had a very bright future regardless of the NCAA sanctions. But Mike choose to write about the NCAA sanctions. And the team would most likely not make it into the NCAA tournament just on their record. So what's the point of it? It's just negative and ignores the target audience.

You are entitled to your opinion.

It adds context to the story. If you want to pretend like that wasn't a big story line that informs a lot of what went on this year, that's fine, but reality is, it is relevant.

 

[Dave85]

"Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season by slim margin"

That's objective reporting.

 

[rrlbees]

"Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season by slim margin" That's objective reporting.

Because it was a slin margin. I guess if we win a game 90-89 in double overtime you want him to say we cruised to an easy win vs won a squeaker.

 

[FrancoPizza]

"Syracuse basketball led nation in attendance for 2014-15 season by slim margin"

That's objective reporting.

Should we demand a Mike Waters apology for this biased reporting and hurt feelings? And if he doesn't cave in, should we insist that he be fired? Maybe even throw in some looting of the P-S office downtown while we're at it.

After all, that's the expected rite of passage in this day and age. God forbid we grow thicker skin, put down the tin foil, man up, and do something constructive.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Because it was a slin margin. I guess if we win a game 90-89 in double overtime you want him to say we cruised to an easy win vs won a squeaker.

Who defines slim margin? The reality is it is entirely based upon a person's perspective.

It would actually be much closer to an 83-82 win. 1.18 - 1.19%

I declare you both right, now go about your day with a glow of righteousness!

 

[rrlbees]

Who defines slim margin? The reality is it is entirely based upon a person's perspective. It would actually be much closer to an 83-82 win. 1.18 - 1.19% I declare you both right, now go about your day with a glow of righteousness!

The point isn't any math, don't know why you think that. It's someone thinking Waters is a bad writer because he is always negative. He's not. But whatever.

 

[br801]

Sorry, it's not about the difference between beat writer versus feature writer. There are plenty of facts to choose from that make up every story.

It seems that you don't understand the roles of beat writers, feature writers and columnists, nor do you understand that in most cases, someone other than the writer likely generates the headline.

Trust me, I'm not a big fan of the Post-Standard/syracuse.com in general, nor their sports department, for various reasons (shoddy and agenda-driven investigative reporting; sports beat writers who consistently editorialize; lazy, self-important and clueless sports columnists), but I think your criticism of Waters is way off base.

Mike is great at what he does, sticks to the job at hand (be it covering the beat, reporting on games, or occasionally preparing a feature story) and to my recollection, he has never been one to stir the pot to draw attention to his work. As a fan of SU sports and the basketball program, I feel fortunate that we have had him around all these years. I also enjoy Donna's work and feel she generally does a nice job.