Syracuse led NCAA in attendance in 2014-15 | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Syracuse led NCAA in attendance in 2014-15

I think its important to remember that it is not the local sports beat guys job to be an SU cheerleader nor even a fan of the program. It is their job to report, offer insight/information and ask questions. Sometimes they add their opinions which I'm fine with as long as its framed as their opinion and not something else.
 
dasher said:
Once again, you are looking at this as a Syracuse fan. That's fine. But I am as big a fan as there is for as long a time as almost anyone here. Mike is an excellent reporter who has won numerous awards. He is not negative in any way towards Syracuse. He writes it as it is. Sometimes that is negative.
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Sorry to belabor my point but as I said he never says anything positive that's my point. There's plenty of "He writes it as it is. Sometimes that is negative". The negatives are always pointed out. Anything that isn't negative is neutral or robotic.

Here is a comparative article from ESPN. There are negatives but check out some of the positives.

For example, from the story:

"Syracuse was in the game early and led 25-17 late"

"CHRISTMAS' FAREWELL

Syracuse's Rakeem Christmas closed his career with 15 points and 12 rebounds. The 6-foot-9 senior had averaged 4.5 points over his first three seasons but finished this year averaging 17.5 points and 9.1 rebounds.

"It's an honor playing for Coach Boeheim," Christmas said. "He's a great coach. I wouldn't have it any other way. He's always there for you, and we're always there for him."

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400588018

Compare that to this:

"Christmas struggled in the first half. He missed his first seven shots from the field. He finally made a right-handed hook off the glass with 5 minutes left in the half. He finished the game with 15 points on 5-for-16 shooting plus 12 rebounds."

It's pretty bad when ESPN is showing us more love than the local beat writer.
 
Dave85 said:
Sorry to belabor my point but as I said he never says anything positive that's my point. There's plenty of "He writes it as it is. Sometimes that is negative". The negatives are always pointed out. Anything that isn't negative is neutral or robotic.

Here is a comparative article from ESPN. There are negatives but check out some of the positives.

For example, from the story:

"Syracuse was in the game early and led 25-17 late"

"CHRISTMAS' FAREWELL

Syracuse's Rakeem Christmas closed his career with 15 points and 12 rebounds. The 6-foot-9 senior had averaged 4.5 points over his first three seasons but finished this year averaging 17.5 points and 9.1 rebounds.

"It's an honor playing for Coach Boeheim," Christmas said. "He's a great coach. I wouldn't have it any other way. He's always there for you, and we're always there for him."

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400588018

Compare that to this:

"Christmas struggled in the first half. He missed his first seven shots from the field. He finally made a right-handed hook off the glass with 5 minutes left in the half. He finished the game with 15 points on 5-for-16 shooting plus 12 rebounds."

It's pretty bad when ESPN is showing us more love than the local beat writer.
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Look dave, you read what you want to read in to any article Mike writes. I can tell you that the coaching staff doesn't think Mike is negative towards them. I can also tell you that you are not a bigger fan of the Orange than I am. And I wouldn't have a writer as a friend that was negative to the Orange. Mike is my friend and he is an award winning reporter. You have had others here tell you that you were wrong. Now, when Mike comes here,as he does at least twice every year to chat with us, tell him how you feel.
 
br801 said:
But Mike stated that Arinze started only because Indiana was resting Myles Turner. That was clearly a conscious effort to devalue Arinze's good performance and further proof of Mike's nefarious agenda to bring shame upon the SU basketball program and its fans.
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Oh that tricky Mike. That totally went over my head. He's really good at this! :)
 
dasher said:
Look dave, you read what you want to read in to any article Mike writes. I can tell you that the coaching staff doesn't think Mike is negative towards them. I can also tell you that you are not a bigger fan of the Orange than I am. And I wouldn't have a writer as a friend that was negative to the Orange. Mike is my friend and he is an award winning reporter. You have had others here tell you that you were wrong. Now, when Mike comes here,as he does at least twice every year to chat with us, tell him how you feel.
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This has nothing to do with Mike as a person. And I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over your fan credentials. And I'm not going to make any judgments on who you choose as friends. I never said Mike was negative. I said his writing style is one directional. I can't compete with "award winning" in any way. As far as the "others" I don't want to be argumentative.

I still stand by my comments. Mike has a style that is not my favorite.

Of the three articles I linked, I think this one is the best of the three in my opinion:

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/03/07...ully-comes-to-end-with-loss-against-nc-state/

Would you classify this version of the same story as a "beat writer" version or a "feature writer" version?

P.S. Thanks for not making any ad hominem attacks against me (although I'm sure you thought about it) I'm kind of stubborn. I think it's because I graduated from Syracuse University.
 
Dave85 said:
This has nothing to do with Mike as a person. And I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over your fan credentials. And I'm not going to make any judgments on who you choose as friends. I never said Mike was negative. I said his writing style is one directional. I can't compete with "award winning" in any way. As far as the "others" I don't want to be argumentative.

I still stand by my comments. Mike has a style that is not my favorite.

Of the three articles I linked, I think this one is the best of the three in my opinion:

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/03/07...ully-comes-to-end-with-loss-against-nc-state/

Would you classify this version of the same story as a "beat writer" version or a "feature writer" version?

P.S. Thanks for not making any ad hominem attacks against me (although I'm sure you thought about it) I'm kind of stubborn. I think it's because I graduated from Syracuse University.
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I got little carried away with my sarcasm this afternoon and I apologize for that. I would recommend you just stop reading when an article says "By Mike Waters" at the top however. It seems to really get you upset which is what started this whole thing.
 
Dave85 said:
This has nothing to do with Mike as a person. And I'm not going to get into a pissing contest over your fan credentials. And I'm not going to make any judgments on who you choose as friends. I never said Mike was negative. I said his writing style is one directional. I can't compete with "award winning" in any way. As far as the "others" I don't want to be argumentative.

I still stand by my comments. Mike has a style that is not my favorite.

Of the three articles I linked, I think this one is the best of the three in my opinion:

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/03/07...ully-comes-to-end-with-loss-against-nc-state/

Would you classify this version of the same story as a "beat writer" version or a "feature writer" version?

P.S. Thanks for not making any ad hominem attacks against me (although I'm sure you thought about it) I'm kind of stubborn. I think it's because I graduated from Syracuse University.
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Quite frankly, a little of both. More of the feature if I had to choose. For example, the stuff about the transfer really doesn't have a place in a game story other than in a sort of notes at the end.
 
dasher said:
Quite frankly, a little of both. More of the feature if I had to choose. For example, the stuff about the transfer really doesn't have a place in a game story other than in a sort of notes at the end.
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I would agree with your assessment on the Jim Stechschulte article. I just really liked the way Jim Stechschulte did this article.

RE: "I would recommend you just stop reading when an article says "By Mike Waters" at the top however"

Most of the articles Mike does are fine like the one today on Jerami Grant's D-league monster dunk. It's just every now and then you get "by a slim margin" stuff which is not good beat reporting in my opinion. He's adding color commentary but only in the negative direction. If he's going to add any color commentary at all to his beat reporting he should do it without a slant. The ESPN article and the article by Jim Stechschulte highlight my point of view succinctly.
 
Dave, you are a product of the easily-offended generation. Who the cares what style Mike uses? If you don't like it, don't read it. It's really that simple. If his style was clearly some type of shtick that we could mock, that's a different story.
 
MSOrange said:
I got little carried away with my sarcasm this afternoon and I apologize for that. I would recommend you just stop reading when an article says "By Mike Waters" at the top however. It seems to really get you upset which is what started this whole thing.
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"MSOrange apologizes to Dave85 by slimmest of margins"
 
dasher said:
Opinions can't be wrong? Of course they can. If I say you are a commie racist, I would think (and hope) you would say that my opinion was factual wrong. Mike is not negative to syracuse basketball. You are wrong. That is a fact. What you are expecting is not the real world. It is not Mike's job, or any reporter's job, to print happy stats. Yes we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws but the defense was really good. That isn't the story. The story is that we lost by 1 and missed 18 free throws. Your perception of a beat reporters job is not one that any real newspaper adheres to.
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opinions_vary.jpg
 
FrancoPizza said:
Dave, you are a product of the easily-offended generation. Who the cares what style Mike uses? If you don't like it, don't read it. It's really that simple. If his style was clearly some type of shtick that we could mock, that's a different story.
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A Mike Waters tidbit...I talked to Mike and asked him if he could donate and sign 3 books he wrote for Orangeyes Golf Tourney...he was happy to do it. He is a good guy. He loves SU Sports.
 
TexanMark said:
A Mike Waters tidbit...I talked to Mike and asked him if he could donate and sign 3 books he wrote for Orangeyes Golf Tourney...he was happy to do it. He is a good guy. He loves SU Sports.
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I wasn't talking about Mike as a person but his writing style.
 
dasher said:
Quite frankly, a little of both. More of the feature if I had to choose. For example, the stuff about the transfer really doesn't have a place in a game story other than in a sort of notes at the end.
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dasher, here's a more balanced story from Mike on CJ Fair. I have no problem with him talking about all the negatives. It just seems to me there are times when the positive commentary is NOT included. You could argue there are games where nothing positive is worth reporting but there's the source of my complaint. I guess I see positives that I think are worth reporting where Mike does not.

Neutral Commentary:

"C.J. Fair has been playing well for the Boston Celtics in NBA summer league action in both Orlando and Las Vegas."

"Fair was the only former Syracuse player to play on Sunday in Las Vegas. Boston's next game is on Tuesday against the Miami Heat."

"He logged 17 minutes off the bench against Philadelphia."

Positive Commentary:

"The former Syracuse University star had scored in double-figures in three out of four games, including a 12-point performance in Boston's win over the Portland Trail Blazers on Saturday."

"Fair continued to get a solid amount of playing time."

"he still picked up four rebounds in the contest."

Negative Commentary:

"On Sunday, however, Fair struggled through his worst shooting game of the summer."

"The 6-foot-8 forward took nine shots from the field and made just one to finish with two points in the Celtics' 85-76 win over the Philadelphia 76ers at the Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas."

"And while Fair was off target on most of his shots"

http://www.syracuse.com/sports/inde..._for_boston_celtics_in_nba_summer_league.html
 
Dave85 said:
dasher, here's a more balanced story from Mike on CJ Fair. I have no problem with him talking about all the negatives. It just seems to me there are times when the positive commentary is NOT included. You could argue there are games where nothing positive is worth reporting but there's the source of my complaint. I guess I see positives that I think are worth reporting where Mike does not.

Neutral Commentary:

"C.J. Fair has been playing well for the Boston Celtics in NBA summer league action in both Orlando and Las Vegas."

"Fair was the only former Syracuse player to play on Sunday in Las Vegas. Boston's next game is on Tuesday against the Miami Heat."

"He logged 17 minutes off the bench against Philadelphia."

Positive Commentary:

"The former Syracuse University star had scored in double-figures in three out of four games, including a 12-point performance in Boston's win over the Portland Trail Blazers on Saturday."

"Fair continued to get a solid amount of playing time."

"he still picked up four rebounds in the contest."

Negative Commentary:

"On Sunday, however, Fair struggled through his worst shooting game of the summer."

"The 6-foot-8 forward took nine shots from the field and made just one to finish with two points in the Celtics' 85-76 win over the Philadelphia 76ers at the Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas."

"And while Fair was off target on most of his shots"

http://www.syracuse.com/sports/inde..._for_boston_celtics_in_nba_summer_league.html
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You just lost me.

I don't see any of the content you quoted as "commentary". Pretty much straight ahead reporting.
 
I'm still in shock that a double digit loss to a mediocre team to finish a season with no conference or NCAA tourney could be possibly be viewed in a negative light.
 
..and who would have thought that an article that appears on a website called "The Juice" would be done in a more positive light.
 
Dave85 said:
I wasn't talking about Mike as a person but his writing style.
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Dave, Just a thought, when everyone tells you that you are wrong about something, you would be a fool not to consider the possibility that you are wrong. there is no need to double down on it. Let it go. You aren't going to convince anyone.
 
dasher said:
Dave, Just a thought, when everyone tells you that you are wrong about something, you would be a fool not to consider the possibility that you are wrong. there is no need to double down on it. Let it go. You aren't going to convince anyone.
Expand...

Maybe you are right. I will think about it.
 
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