Syracuse Raises Tuition

[OttoMets]

The liberal arts are what make us thinking, thoughtful, educated human beings ... and not just mono-focused accountants, engineers or programmers. Literature, music, art, philosophy, history, etc ... help create a total person who can relate to the world and the people within it. How sad it would be to go through life with only a narrow, specialized occupation-focused education and outlook.

Thank you. Couldn't put it better. Pin this.

 

[OttoMets]

I believe SU debt has been reduced considerably under Chancellor Syverud and academic rankings have gone up.

Not sure I have heard anyone say this about Eric, especially not in comparison with his predecessor. Do you have any facts whatsoever to back your statements up with?

Eric left awhile ago under kind of awkward circumstances, I believe (though he was a real smart guy with some serious research accomplishments). Anyway, I think he was the provost, not CFO. Lou Marcoccia might be the predecessor you're thinking of. (But I hear some of the financial concerns were overblown.)

Current CFO is Amir. He's well-regarded, but he's definitely a business guy, for better or worse.

 

[AZOrange]

Thank you. Couldn't put it better. Pin this.

Agreed

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

So should the wealthy have to pay more for everything else because they can afford to pay more?

Seems to me wealthy people make this choice on their own. Cars, housing options, clothing, dining out, travel, etc.

Syracuse.com recently published the ranking of every high school in CNY, which was filtered down from US News ranking every HS in the state. I can't remember the exact list, but all of the top schools in CNY were in the wealthiest communities (Skan, FM, New Hartford, Caz, etc.) Wealth means opportunity, especially for the children of wealth.

And wealthy people aren't paying more. They're paying sticker price. If that were a problem, their kids could seek out cheaper options, like many others are starting to do.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Thank you. Couldn't put it better. Pin this.

I have a history degree and work in Market Research. Many of my co-workers have Marketing / Business degrees and took classes on the subject they now work in. What value is that degree if I can break into the field without similar training and do just as well?

 

[TexanMark]

As one who was a Geography Major, History Minor I appreciate the broad education but I also realize it was much, much easier than those majoring in STEM. I took a few STEM courses in college.

Even back then, in liberal arts you could get high grades by attending most classes, listen to lectures, take notes of the professor's opinions and spit them back on the essays. STEM you actually had to read detailed material and do Labs...and continue to build a foundation or you'll fail at the next higher level course. Liberal Arts didn't have foundation building of quantitative knowledge just courses with bigger vocabulary words.

 

[maxxyz]

I have a history degree and work in Market Research. Many of my co-workers have Marketing / Business degrees and took classes on the subject they now work in. What value is that degree if I can break into the field without similar training and do just as well?

Serious question - Is there anything that you are doing now in your current job that you couldn’t do with a associates degree and 1-2 years of experience?

The biggest advantage SU can offer is coordinating internships and the alumni network. And I firmly believe that liberal arts classes make a person more well rounded and a better critical thinker. And a better employee or entrepreneur.

But the even bigger advantage of higher education in the current job market is that you often can’t get your resume looked at, much less get and interview, for a good job without having a bachelors degree or an advanced degree.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Serious question - Is there anything that you are doing now in your current job that you couldn’t do with a associates degree and 1-2 years of experience?

The biggest advantage SU can offer is coordinating internships and the alumni network. And I firmly believe that liberal arts classes make a person more well rounded and a better critical thinker. And a better employee or entrepreneur.

But the even bigger advantage of higher education in the current job market is that you often can’t get your resume looked at, much less get and interview, for a good job without having a bachelors degree or an advanced degree.

The data management part of my job is Associates Degree level for sure. The critical thinking is likely more Bachelors level and a few years experience. The project management is strictly on the job experience.

 

[cuse10]

The liberal arts are what make us thinking, thoughtful, educated human beings ... and not just mono-focused accountants, engineers or programmers. Literature, music, art, philosophy, history, etc ... help create a total person who can relate to the world and the people within it. How sad it would be to go through life with only a narrow, specialized occupation-focused education and outlook.

Well said. It's one of the points I raise when people argue for turning universities into trade schools. I hold a degree in History. I work in Marketing for one of the biggest banks in the world. Never took a class in Whitman. Was stunned to see that many high ranking execs in my firm studied the liberal arts in undergrad. Are there times where I think that majoring in something else would have allowed me to transition into a client facing role? Of course, but after the initial period of grinding out of the gate, the hard work is starting to pay off.

 

[tipphill]

buying a education is like buying a house ,car etc etc. you know the cost going in. . it is your responsibility to plan for it. i am not responsible for paying for anyone else's debt. i was responsible for my tuition when i went, i paid for my two kids tuition etc etc. which took some time. i am middle class retired and comfortable (for the time being )
although i do work part time at home depot to keep busy,and its great!!!!

 

[Chip]

There's an easy way to find out if a price is too high.

 

[tipphill]

SU changed my family’s life as well as mine. I was heading to BC at full price until SU sent me a merit based scholarship which accounted for a 25+% savings. I actually tried to get BC to do same and they told me to pound rocks

SUs future will be saved by the generous actions of people like Einhorn, Barnes et al. I thank the benefactors for giving me the option to go to Syracuse at an affordable level in the early 90s

bc is awful re money. they want wealthy parents for sure---my daughter wanted to go there but was wait listed. however it turned out to be a godsend --she went to upenn

 

[Acesn8s]

buying a education is like buying a house ,car etc etc. you know the cost going in. . it is your responsibility to plan for it. i am not responsible for paying for anyone else's debt. i was responsible for my tuition when i went, i paid for my two kids tuition etc etc. which took some time. i am middle class retired and comfortable (for the time being )
although i do work part time at home depot to keep busy,and its great!!!!

Like this x 1000... I certainly don’t think we should be bailing people out with our tax dollars because they didn’t make the most of their education or their education didn’t make them as successful as they were hoping.

 

[Orangejet]

Sounds about right. I figured $7000 in early 1977 SU when I was deciding where to attend. Much different era then. Parents didn't hyper ventilate over getting their kids into the best places (not at my HS at least, maybe J-D and -M had more parent pushing). I was not the best student in HS (lazy and not focused) but tested well (won Regents Scholarship). I went to Oswego St. to see if college was going to work for me and had fun there and stayed on to graduate.

Oswego St tuition was $375 for Fr/So years... jumped to $450 for Jr/Sr years. Tuition stayed the same all 4 years. I don't remember the exact cost for Oswego but I think it was about $3000 a year including everything.

My football scholarship freshman year at the Cuse was worth $6100 and that included everything and more (story for another day). When I was a senior in 1981, it was $8700. I barely graduated in 1982 with a Psychology degree and after bouncing around with several NFL & USFL teams, I am still with the same company (A-B Sales) now for 37 years and not going anywhere anytime soon. Recently, I have been helping ex-SU players, who are seeking employment, an opportunity to enter the beer industry and hoping most make it through the process. Want to start the Orange Beer Network...as I call it!

 

[FloridaFan]

Just having the degree is worth more then what the name is. Amazon for example requires either a bachelors degree or 2+ years amazon expierence. However what they doing tell you is that the 2+ years means 1% compared to having a degree. It’s the same all around. No degree, almost 0 percent chance of even getting entry level

 

[TexanMark]

Just having the degree is worth more then what the name is. Amazon for example requires either a bachelors degree or 2+ years amazon expierence. However what they doing tell you is that the 2+ years means 1% compared to having a degree. It’s the same all around. No degree, almost 0 percent chance of even getting entry level

Having a degree is a discriminator for most employers. Finish your degree...come north to Cuse and work at Amazon for a few years to build a base...then figure out your next step.

 

[FloridaFan]

Having a degree is a discriminator for most employers. Finish your degree...come north to Cuse and work at Amazon for a few years to build a base...then figure out your next step.

It’s not that easy when I can’t take really more then 2 classes a semester and work at amazon. Fall semester is impossible to do more then that with 60 hour weeks.

trust me I’d love to go to school first but bills have to be payed

 

[Doc5120]

Having a degree is a discriminator for most employers. Finish your degree...come north to Cuse and work at Amazon for a few years to build a base...then figure out your next step.

A degree is a piece of paper that more or less says, "I can learn from a texbook." As far as I'm concerned, for the vast majority of jobs (certainly not all), on job experience & the ability to retain & apply that learned knowledge is much more important.

I work at a University. My department in particular, loves college degrees, especially advanced degrees. My former (now retired) boss has a masters in IS and was maybe 1/2 way into her doctorate. I have a bachelor's degree. If you looked at our work, and who was doing what, as well as who was capable of handling various questions/projects, you'd assume the level of education was reversed.

There is absolutely no question I (along with my co-workers) were/are a much more valuable asset to our department than she was. She had a near 4.0 GPA and more pieces of paper than me (and my co-workers), but she quite literally couldn't do any actual work that the rest of us could. She has since retired, and we haven't missed a beat. In fact, we're probably even more productive at this point because we don't have to bring her up to speed or answer questions she should already know. Still waiting for them to move on to hiring for her position, as it's a position I want. I guess this goes back to the fact we didn't lose anything and they see it as a cost savings so the process has been sloth-like slow, but I digress.

Sadly, we have multiple examples of people who fit this category. On the flip side, we have a few people who have associates degrees and are more than capable of doing their job. And overall, better employees than some of those with bachelors, masters etc.

Having a college degree is important to crack into the workforce, because it makes it much easier to get interviews. From there, there's a fair amount of luck, as far as who you know and opportunities that open up along the way.

 

[FloridaFan]

A degree is a piece of paper that more or less says, "I can learn from a texbook." As far as I'm concerned, for the vast majority of jobs (certainly not all), on job experience & the ability to retain & apply that learned knowledge is much more important.

I work at a University. My department in particular, loves college degrees, especially advanced degrees. My former (now retired) boss has a masters in IS and was maybe 1/2 way into her doctorate. I have a bachelor's degree. If you looked at our work, and who was doing what, as well as who was capable of handling various questions/projects, you'd assume the level of education was reversed.

There is absolutely no question I (along with my co-workers) were/are a much more valuable asset to our department than she was. She had a near 4.0 GPA and more pieces of paper than me (and my co-workers), but she quite literally couldn't do any actual work that the rest of us could. She has since retired, and we haven't missed a beat. In fact, we're probably even more productive at this point because we don't have to bring her up to speed or answer questions she should already know. Still waiting for them to move on to hiring for her position, as it's a position I want. I guess this goes back to the fact we didn't lose anything and they see it as a cost savings so the process has been sloth-like slow, but I digress.

Sadly, we have multiple examples of people who fit this category. On the flip side, we have a few people who have associates degrees and are more than capable of doing their job. And overall, better employees than some of those with bachelors, masters etc.

Having a college degree is important to crack into the workforce, because it makes it much easier to get interviews. From there, there's a fair amount of luck, as far as who you know and opportunities that open up along the way.

Pretty sure all 3 of us agree on it. The problem is cracking that entrance while working and trying to juggle real life with schooling

 

[orangecuse]

Seems to me wealthy people make this choice on their own. Cars, housing options, clothing, dining out, travel, etc.

Syracuse.com recently published the ranking of every high school in CNY, which was filtered down from US News ranking every HS in the state. I can't remember the exact list, but all of the top schools in CNY were in the wealthiest communities (Skan, FM, New Hartford, Caz, etc.) Wealth means opportunity, especially for the children of wealth.

And wealthy people aren't paying more. They're paying sticker price. If that were a problem, their kids could seek out cheaper options, like many others are starting to do.

LOL. Relative to your car & sticker price analogy...you know that identical BMW 700 series you bought the other day that you had to pay sticker price for if you wanted it (simply because you can afford to at your income level) I got that same identical fully tricked out ride for 20K less, only (and for no other reason whatsoever) because I make less than you. Enjoy!

 

[Doc5120]

Pretty sure all 3 of us agree on it. The problem is cracking that entrance while working and trying to juggle real life with schooling

Fortunately, I never had to go through that. I cannot even begin to imagine how challenging it is! Best of luck and I hope it works out well for you!

 

[Fat tire 13]

Lots of this is the system itself.

Colleges can charge what they do because the Federal government subsidizes loans. Then colleges spend money to compete for students. Tuition goes up more than inflation almost every year.

There are 45 million ex-students with $1.6 trillion of debt at the moment. The average is $33K and the median is $17K. That implies there are a material amount of people who have 6 figure debt.

With this COVID situation, you are seeing cartel like behavior with the universities. If one breaks and reduces the cost, the others will be forced to follow. Many smaller universities can't afford a year of no income, or a permanent repricing of tuition. It makes sense. It is not like any school would ever budget for a year of no school.

My prediction is if there is ever an event that breaks the system permanently, this might be it. You will see many schools shut down, and people will question if college is necessary.

I agree with CTO that a liberal arts education is very important for our society. We just need to do it in a way that doesn't place such a financial burden on the student (and parents by default).

Hopefully this is a moment that causes colleges to serve the students in a way that is more efficient. If some schools shut down, it is not the end of the world. If colleges had to manage their income/expenses like other businesses, it would result in improvements. The challenge is do get through this transition in a way that isn't too damaging to industry itself.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

LOL. Relative to your car & sticker price analogy...you know that identical BMW 700 series you bought the other day that you had to pay sticker price for if you wanted it (simply because you can afford to at your income level) I got that same identical fully tricked out ride for 20K less, only (and for no other reason whatsoever) because I make less than you. Enjoy!

Why should being rich mean you get to maximize your earnings at the expense of others, while also getting the benefits of saving money because others get to? This response is so myopic that I don't even know how to properly respond.

 

[orangecuse]

I know you're trying to troll me, but why should the rich get every single advantage and break and discount?

Relax, just having some fun.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

lol (It's actually the opposite, Rocco - liberal arts (social sciences) and science majors score the highest on the CLA - Collegiate Learning Assessment- with business majors at the bottom).

Well, you can't make chicken salad ...