Syracuse University cancels contract with sports marketer IMG (PS)

[rrlbees]

I'll wait and see, what this chancellor actually does, before I have any opinion. After all he is a Georgetown graduate, and sports might be an afterthought with him.

He's already cut budgets and staff in many departments, including his own.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Maybe whatever way they got McCullough eligible is about to be the next OTL or SI report and this was a preemptive move to distance ourselves.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Syracuse could make millions of dollars more every year after breaking contract with IMG (PS: Carlson)

 

[Toga]

To whomever apparently included an out clause in the contract - touche.

 

[texasorange]

Syracuse could make millions of dollars more every year after breaking contract with IMG (PS: Carlson)

I just saw this too . I think it explains quite a bit of the thinking at SU. Maybe SU doesn't get the deal Kentucky did, but we should be darn close.

 

[OttoMets]

I had to give this a like. Stupid athletics department budget crisis holding up any sort of progress.

(I'm going with that as the reason that my application has been met with deadly silence, damnit)

That and one of the most inept human resources departments in higher education.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I didn't take it that way completely. There may be cuts to coaching salaries but I would think it would be in the non revenue sports.

I think that's a likely occurrence, plus some trimming of the Exec. Sr. Assoc AD crew. Sad to say that even with the ACC $, SUAD still needs a big influx of revenue to "right the ship"

 

[SUFan44]

This is a very good thing, and not in any way, shape or form a bad thing at all.

 

[GoSU96]

Well if they do (and I've read elsewhere about private schools not having to report something...maybe it's salaries), the numbers are wrong or misreported.

They report everything. As a private school their report to the Dept of Education is not subject to FOIA disclosure. But they provide to the Dept. the same report and level of detail that every other school does.

The numbers are the numbers, they aren't wrong or misreported, SU is not going to falsify a report to the Federal Gov't. What we don't know are the details behind them.

There are issues because not all reporting is apples to apples, accounting practices vary, sources of revenue and how and they are allocated are different, how schools deal with capital projects and facilities O&M are different.

 

[rrlbees]

They report everything. As a private school their report to the Dept of Education is not subject to FOIA disclosure. But they provide to the Dept. the same report and level of detail that every other school does. The numbers are the numbers, they aren't wrong or misreported, SU is not going to falsify a report to the Federal Gov't. What we don't know are the details behind them. There are issues because not all reporting is apples to apples, accounting practices vary, sources of revenue and how and they are allocated are different, how schools deal with capital projects and facilities O&M are different.

Whatever the accounting, it does not portray the financial standing accurately. They may be honest numbers but there are other numbers that come into play. The DoE numbers makes one think that we doing very well, when we aren't.

 

[rrlbees]

Syracuse could make millions of dollars more every year after breaking contract with IMG (PS: Carlson)

Makes sense to me.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Looks like I owe Giansante some credit here. He might finally be earning his $ if his connections are resulting in an influx of revenue.

 

[Orangepace]

Whatever the accounting, it does not portray the financial standing accurately. They may be honest numbers but there are other numbers that come into play. The DoE numbers makes one think that we doing very well, when we aren't.

not sure I understand because I am certain that these reports require an audit. That said, I know there is much more flexibility in terms of accounting policies that these institutions can adopt than your normal SEC reporting for-profit entity. The trickiest part would be the facilities. What department owns them? If not the athletic department, then how are fair market rents determined and allocated? This would seem the biggest wiggle room between departments and the general fund.

 

[rrlbees]

not sure I understand because I am certain that these reports require an audit. That said, I know there is much more flexibility in terms of accounting policies that these institutions can adopt than your normal SEC reporting for-profit entity. The trickiest part would be the facilities. What department owns them? If not the athletic department, then how are fair market rents determined and allocated? This would seem the biggest wiggle room between departments and the general fund.

I'm not saying anyone is "lying" or anything that would cause anyone concern during an audit if some sort. I'm saying I also don't understand the DoE numbers and if they are wrong or don't include everything or only ask for certain numbers. What I do know is that those numbers typically show us nicely in the black. That's not true and I don't know what the difference is and whether facility rental, operations, maintenance and those things count or if it's something else.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I'm not saying anyone is "lying" or anything that would cause anyone concern during an audit if some sort. I'm saying I also don't understand the DoE numbers and if they are wrong or don't include everything or only ask for certain numbers. What I do know is that those numbers typically show us nicely in the black. That's not true and I don't know what the difference is and whether facility rental, operations, maintenance and those things count or if it's something else.

Creative accounting is my guess

 

[rocklloyd]

I wonder how hard they have tried in the past to negotiate with Carrier to get their name off the dome. You would think they could make some good coin but reselling the naming rights. As great as the dome has been for what it cost 33 odd years ago, they definitely screwed up with the naming rights. Not for nothing but if I was the king I would get that to happen and also change the name back to the Orangemen. My only two requests.

It's not going to happen.

 

[GoSU96]

I'm not saying anyone is "lying" or anything that would cause anyone concern during an audit if some sort. I'm saying I also don't understand the DoE numbers and if they are wrong or don't include everything or only ask for certain numbers. What I do know is that those numbers typically show us nicely in the black. That's not true and I don't know what the difference is and whether facility rental, operations, maintenance and those things count or if it's something else.

Whatever is going on, it's obvious that the reporting is including more on the revenue side credited to the athletic department than what the person who is telling you that finances are a disaster is including in their evaluation.

And what is the issue that the non revenue sports aren't covering their costs? If it is, they don't anywhere, that's part of the purpose of the football and basketball programs, to help pay the costs of those sports and the administrative costs of the department as a whole. If people are complaining about that, they are missing the point. If the issue is resource allocation, such as non value adds in the AD Department vs money for the training staff, that's another.

 

[HtownOrange]

Kentucky is getting $14MM/year average. Syracuse does not really share a state (KU shares with Louisville) which is several times larger, has a national following and has excellent market penetration. Not sure what the downsides are, any marketing pros on board that can explain and analyze the situation?

Otherwise, I think SU could pull in a similar deal.

 

[jekelish]

Trying to free up some salary for Jekelish.

Well my asking price must have been too high, because I just received an e-mail notifying me I did not make the pool of finalists for the position. Oh well, knew it was a long shot anyway.

 

[TheCusian]

Kentucky is getting $14MM/year average. Syracuse does not really share a state (KU shares with Louisville) which is several times larger, has a national following and has excellent market penetration. Not sure what the downsides are, any marketing pros on board that can explain and analyze the situation? Otherwise, I think SU could pull in a similar deal.

Agree. Any less money we'd receive for Bball being slightly less national (hate the Kentucky has bluer blood, detest them, etc) should be offset by our football history and new affiliation with the ACC. And Bball should be helped by our new conf too - if only for the budding rivalry with Duke. Is be surprised if it's not close to that number. I wonder if we'll ever know the details of whatever arrangement they come to. Hope so - fun stuff.

 

[rrlbees]

Whatever is going on, it's obvious that the reporting is including more on the revenue side credited to the athletic department than what the person who is telling you that finances are a disaster is including in their evaluation. And what is the issue that the non revenue sports aren't covering their costs? If it is, they don't anywhere, that's part of the purpose of the football and basketball programs, to help pay the costs of those sports and the administrative costs of the department as a whole. If people are complaining about that, they are missing the point. If the issue is resource allocation, such as non value adds in the AD Department vs money for the training staff, that's another.

It's not what a person has told me, it's been a few and even more so quotes by SU officials in various articles including Marcoccia in the articles about the Bain report. He admitted the AD is a net negative to the University in some years. There's also the whole mistrust factor. I think the Bain report and statements made by SU in reaction to it were very revealing. That's why I question what the DoE numbers tell us.

 

[JimBoston]

Syracuse should be able to get more $s from IMG, but there are limits as tier 3 TV rights have already been sold by the ACC. Kentucky's deal with JMI Sports doesn't include any tier 3 TV rights as those have been committed to the SEC Network. To put in context, Alabama is supposedly getting the highest multimedia deal which doesn't include any TV rights at $15 to $16 mill per year. Florida State is getting $6 million from IMG. Rutgers recently bought out their contract with a competitor of IMG and signed with IMG and got ~$6 mill per year.

 

[HtownOrange]

It's not what a person has told me, it's been a few and even more so quotes by SU officials in various articles including Marcoccia in the articles about the Bain report. He admitted the AD is a net negative to the University in some years. There's also the whole mistrust factor. I think the Bain report and statements made by SU in reaction to it were very revealing. That's why I question what the DoE numbers tell us.

I wonder how much of this is due to the AD paying for full scholarships at the full SU price. If it was close under the the GROB/Marrone Big East years, I have to think that with the new ACC money, Syracuse should be in good shape. Just an opinion, would love to see real numbers.

Also, did Cantor and does Syverud follow the Shaw policy that the AD had to contribute to the academic side? (I was never clear on that issue but it adds a new dimension to the equations)

Re: DoE numbers, the reality is they are just a basic means of comparison, nothing more. Unless we let TexasCPA and a few others analyze everything and put monies in the same categories across the board, we will never have a true picture. It is fun to compare and debate, though.

 

[Toga]

Well my asking price must have been too high, because I just received an e-mail notifying me I did not make the pool of finalists for the position. Oh well, knew it was a long shot anyway.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[SUFan44]

It's not what a person has told me, it's been a few and even more so quotes by SU officials in various articles including Marcoccia in the articles about the Bain report. He admitted the AD is a net negative to the University in some years. There's also the whole mistrust factor. I think the Bain report and statements made by SU in reaction to it were very revealing. That's why I question what the DoE numbers tell us.

It's not a net negative if you take everything into account. Which is why I scoff at all of these reports and studies.

Do a poll of every incoming student (not just athletes) asking why they came to Syracuse University. I am betting there are some (not a lot, but some) that say having quality men's basketball was a factor in their choosing to attend Syracuse. There have been numerous studies done saying there is always an uptick of applications when a team wins a national title, or a smaller school makes the NCAA Tournament for the first time.

Also, a sport like rowing, women's hockey, women's soccer, men's soccer - how many kids are getting full rides? Not many. A lot of them are paying, either through loans or out of pocket to come to the University. And wouldn't have gone to SU without those teams being in existence or being recruited to play there.

This is not even taking into account the number of times Syracuse University's campus is being broadcast on national TV (ESPN, ABC, etc.) for football, basketball, lacrosse... The exposure and brand marketing related to this is enormous and I am sure someone in the marketing field could calculate how much the University is gaining in relative marketing money by having one basketball game the magnitude of Syracuse-Duke on ESPN, and hyped up for days before.

Could the AD be more fiscally responsible? I am on record as saying there's too much fat at the top and too many roosters in the coup. Not to mention a few non-revenue sport HC's that are making way over market value. But when you say the athletic department is a "net negative" in some years, that's not taking a look at the entire picture.