SyracuseFan.com Rutgers Myopia

[OrangePA]

The group think on this board is a very interesting subject.

For many issues there develops a conventional wisdom that becomes SyracuseFan.com law.

I think the perception of Rutgers on this board falls into that category.

There is Rutgers Myopia that is quite remarkable.

Most on this board seem to want to view Rutgers as if time stood still during the Graber/Shea years.

What most fail to recognize is that even during those years heavy investments were being made in the Rutgers Program. And those investments were more much bigger than the investments that were being made in the Syracuse Program.

I was there for the SU game in 1987 when Rutgers Stadium was pretty much a glorified high school stadium.That changed during the Graber years. The stadium was renovated and was pretty impressive. I recall thinking that it looked like a mini-Giants Stadium. And the investments in practice facilities educational support and recruiting continued during those years.

Remember - Greg Schiano arrived in Piscataway twelve years ago.When he arrived the investments became bigger and bigger.

So, right now the investment in the Rutgers program has been going on for nearly 20 years.

The investment in our program has been going on for about eight years.

It should not be surprising then that Rutgers is ahead of us.

Now, I do not purport to be an x and o guy - I don't know football strategy beyond the basics that most fans know. But, I was an athlete my whole life and I feel I have a decent ability to assess athletic ability.

I was at the game last week in NJ. I was lucky enough to sit a few rows off the field. I saw both teams up close.

I can assure you, the Rutgers team is far more physical and more athletic than our team. They are taller, stronger, and faster. From my vantage point - despite our strong effort - both of our lines were out-muscled during the game. Our WRs were blanketed by the the Rutgers LBs and DBs. The Rutgers defense hit hard - much harder than our defense hit. That's why we turned the ball over and Rutgers didn't. Nova was simply not exposed to the pressure that Nassib was forced to face through the entire game.

On the offensive side, the Rutgers WR, Colemen - the 6' 6" 220 pounds - is a physical freak - a dominant player - whom we could not cover. We were frankly lucky that Nova missed him by inches a few times. And he is not the only one of those kinds of players on the Rutgers roster. They have a bunch of them. The Rutgers TE - 6' 5 and 250 pounds played like a WR last week - he has speed, strength and agility.

I suspect that if you review the two teams carefully you will learn that Rutgers has more four star players than we do - that Rutgers has more highly rated players out of HS than we do - and that Rutgers has recruited more of those kinds of players than we have for many years now.

Don't get me wrong. Take away the mistakes - many caused by the pressure applied by Rutgers - and we obviously have a chance to win the game.

And don't get me wrong, we are investing and are getting better and better and have a better product to sell - the great Syracuse University Football Tradition.

But the presumption that many have on this board seem to have and have had for awhile now - that we have as much talent as Rutgers - is the essence of a social network myopia.

 

[retro44]

i guess you never got the memo on this...
http://www.dailytargum.com/opinion/...cle_6300a63e-fe17-11e1-a4ff-001a4bcf6878.html

as for a good part of your post,I think you are just looking for attention

 

[Stern]

The Rutgers defense hit hard - much harder than our defense hit. That's why we turned the ball over and Rutgers didn't.

This quote is laughable! Very laughable!

 

[Alsacs]

 

[OrangePA]

This quote is laughable! Very laughable!

Incisive retort.

 

[OrangePA]

i guess you never got the memo on this...
http://www.dailytargum.com/opinion/...cle_6300a63e-fe17-11e1-a4ff-001a4bcf6878.html

as for a good part of your post,I think you are just looking for attention

I think the link supports the post. Rutgers has invested heavily in its football program for a long time.

Whether that has been appropriate - in terms of promoting the Rutgers academic brand is of course subject to debate.

My understanding is however - from the benefactor of the Rutgers Athletic Learning Program - is that the Rutgers Football Program has had great success in the classroom.

I am not personally familiar with the stats - that's just what I was told last week.

As far as looking for attention is concerned - yeah, I guess you're right. That's why all of us post on this board - to get somebody's attention.

You just did the same thing I did and you got my attention. Good job!

 

[HOFCeluck]

Syracuse is 6-8 vs Rutgers since Mcnabb graduated.

Syracuse has been to four bowl games since then, RU six.

I know the original posters reputation, but he has a legit point.

 

[dollarbill44]

If they were far more physical and athletic, then how come we moved the ball pretty much at will the entire second half and they couldn't. I agree that they are far ahead of us in terms of $$$ invested in the program, but I don't see the physical dominance of which you speak.

 

[javadoc]

OPa, I know you mean well, but who freaking cares at this point? I'm snapping the rear view mirror off the windshield.

 

[dasher]

Incisive retort.

Please list all of the impressive non big east wins Rutgers had had during this time period. Just because we have sucked, doesn't mean that they have become legit. They haven't. It's not a fluke that they haven't been taken in expansion.

 

[mountaincuse]

I thought we were done with these posts?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Please list all of the impressive non big east wins Rutgers had had during this time period. Just because we have sucked, doesn't mean that they have become legit. They haven't. It's not a fluke that they haven't been taken in expansion.

I would love to be as legit as Rutgers has been the last ten seasons.

They may not be Alabama but its hilarious how some Syracuse fans like to pretend that it's still 1998.

 

[Upstate]

Not sure if USC East or just state school in Jersey

 

[Townie72]

The group think on this board is a very interesting subject.

For many issues there develops a conventional wisdom that becomes SyracuseFan.com law.

I think the perception of Rutgers on this board falls into that category.

There is Rutgers Myopia that is quite remarkable.

Most on this board seem to want to view Rutgers as if time stood still during the Graber/Shea years.

What most fail to recognize is that even during those years heavy investments were being made in the Rutgers Program. And those investments were more much bigger than the investments that were being made in the Syracuse Program.

I was there for the SU game in 1987 when Rutgers Stadium was pretty much a glorified high school stadium.That changed during the Graber years. The stadium was renovated and was pretty impressive. I recall thinking that it looked like a mini-Giants Stadium. And the investments in practice facilities educational support and recruiting continued during those years.

Remember - Greg Schiano arrived in Piscataway twelve years ago.When he arrived the investments became bigger and bigger.

So, right now the investment in the Rutgers program has been going on for nearly 20 years.

The investment in our program has been going on for about eight years.

It should not be surprising then that Rutgers is ahead of us.

Now, I do not purport to be an x and o guy - I don't know football strategy beyond the basics that most fans know. But, I was an athlete my whole life and I feel I have a decent ability to assess athletic ability.

I was at the game last week in NJ. I was lucky enough to sit a few rows off the field. I saw both teams up close.

I can assure you, the Rutgers team is far more physical and more athletic than our team. They are taller, stronger, and faster. From my vantage point - despite our strong effort - both of our lines were out-muscled during the game. Our WRs were blanketed by the the Rutgers LBs and DBs. The Rutgers defense hit hard - much harder than our defense hit. That's why we turned the ball over and Rutgers didn't. Nova was simply not exposed to the pressure that Nassib was forced to face through the entire game.

On the offensive side, the Rutgers WR, Colemen - the 6' 6" 220 pounds - is a physical freak - a dominant player - whom we could not cover. We were frankly lucky that Nova missed him by inches a few times. And he is not the only one of those kinds of players on the Rutgers roster. They have a bunch of them. The Rutgers TE - 6' 5 and 250 pounds played like a WR last week - he has speed, strength and agility.

I suspect that if you review the two teams carefully you will learn that Rutgers has more four star players than we do - that Rutgers has more highly rated players out of HS than we do - and that Rutgers has recruited more of those kinds of players than we have for many years now.

Don't get me wrong. Take away the mistakes - many caused by the pressure applied by Rutgers - and we obviously have a chance to win the game.

And don't get me wrong, we are investing and are getting better and better and have a better product to sell - the great Syracuse University Football Tradition.

But the presumption that many have on this board seem to have and have had for awhile now - that we have as much talent as Rutgers - is the essence of a social network myopia.

This defense of Rutgers is, at this point, pointless. They are disappearing from our schedule likely to never return. The Conference they are in has been tried before and has failed. And the prognosis for the future is not good.

My problems with the Rutgers program have little to do with their talent.

Its a football program that was created by a couple of people in the hope that the people of NJ would become interested in it. So far it has soaked the students and the taxpayers of NJ for $100's of millions. It's borderline criminal to require students and taxpayers who don't care about Rutgers football to subsidize it to the tune of $20+ million a year. Talk about taxation without representation.

Prior to the recent improvement, RU cashed Big East checks with little investment. They were parasites on a conference that had others busting their asses to compete while they fielded a IAA team.

Their basketball and lacrosse programs have been generally non-competitive.

Rutgers belongs with Delaware and URI ... and I think that's where they will end up. That's a level of football consistent with the baseline interest there has historically been in the State. Good riddance to bad garbage.

 

[raf4488]

Syracuse is 6-8 vs Rutgers since Mcnabb graduated.

Syracuse has been to four bowl games since then, RU six.

I know the original posters reputation, but he has a legit point.

So during the worst stretch in SU history, and the best in RU history, we're more or less even or RU slightly ahead. Got it. Also, SU leads in BE titles 1-0.

 

[retro44]

once the state pulls their funding,they are done for good.

raiding 28 million a year in student fees is not a good investment.

Bain capital would never invest in them.

 

[RMH44]

The group think on this board is a very interesting subject.

For many issues there develops a conventional wisdom that becomes SyracuseFan.com law.

I think the perception of Rutgers on this board falls into that category.

There is Rutgers Myopia that is quite remarkable.

Most on this board seem to want to view Rutgers as if time stood still during the Graber/Shea years.

What most fail to recognize is that even during those years heavy investments were being made in the Rutgers Program. And those investments were more much bigger than the investments that were being made in the Syracuse Program.

I was there for the SU game in 1987 when Rutgers Stadium was pretty much a glorified high school stadium.That changed during the Graber years. The stadium was renovated and was pretty impressive. I recall thinking that it looked like a mini-Giants Stadium. And the investments in practice facilities educational support and recruiting continued during those years.

Remember - Greg Schiano arrived in Piscataway twelve years ago.When he arrived the investments became bigger and bigger.

So, right now the investment in the Rutgers program has been going on for nearly 20 years.

The investment in our program has been going on for about eight years.

It should not be surprising then that Rutgers is ahead of us.

Now, I do not purport to be an x and o guy - I don't know football strategy beyond the basics that most fans know. But, I was an athlete my whole life and I feel I have a decent ability to assess athletic ability.

I was at the game last week in NJ. I was lucky enough to sit a few rows off the field. I saw both teams up close.

I can assure you, the Rutgers team is far more physical and more athletic than our team. They are taller, stronger, and faster. From my vantage point - despite our strong effort - both of our lines were out-muscled during the game. Our WRs were blanketed by the the Rutgers LBs and DBs. The Rutgers defense hit hard - much harder than our defense hit. That's why we turned the ball over and Rutgers didn't. Nova was simply not exposed to the pressure that Nassib was forced to face through the entire game.

On the offensive side, the Rutgers WR, Colemen - the 6' 6" 220 pounds - is a physical freak - a dominant player - whom we could not cover. We were frankly lucky that Nova missed him by inches a few times. And he is not the only one of those kinds of players on the Rutgers roster. They have a bunch of them. The Rutgers TE - 6' 5 and 250 pounds played like a WR last week - he has speed, strength and agility.

I suspect that if you review the two teams carefully you will learn that Rutgers has more four star players than we do - that Rutgers has more highly rated players out of HS than we do - and that Rutgers has recruited more of those kinds of players than we have for many years now.

Don't get me wrong. Take away the mistakes - many caused by the pressure applied by Rutgers - and we obviously have a chance to win the game.

And don't get me wrong, we are investing and are getting better and better and have a better product to sell - the great Syracuse University Football Tradition.

But the presumption that many have on this board seem to have and have had for awhile now - that we have as much talent as Rutgers - is the essence of a social network myopia.

I think we agree that RU has the size and speed advantage at the skill positions, particularly at wr, and LB. We more than held our own on both sides of the ball along the line of scrimmage last week. We pretty much shutdown their running game.

I believe last year's recruiting class contains some very promising skill players that will contribute as early as next season. With a few more wins and a bowl appearance, I think we will land some of our top prospects on the 2013 wish list.

 

[Alsacs]

This thread is pointless, honestly who's gives a flip about Rutgers my goodness. Barring a bowl matchup we will never play them again, and I could careless if we have played. We had a thread on here last week about how much of an awful 10 year stretch of football we have had I could careless about Rutgers or their future. Good for them being better than us these last 10 years, they are Virginia Tech lite. While VPI was able to use their phony schedules to become a national player RU's best season the last 10 years 2006 is on par with our 2001 season with Dwight Freeney. Their best finish in the Big East has been 3rd place out of 8 my goodness let's aspire to be better than that. The "rivalry" between the schools is what somebody said(I forget the exact poster) on here its between 100 internet fans, I don't care about them and they don't care about us.

 

[retro44]

So during the worst stretch in SU history, and the best in RU history, we're more or less even or RU slightly ahead. Got it. Also, SU leads in BE titles 1-0.

i count 4 big east tittles for syracuse '91 '96' 97' 98

 

[retro44]

I think the link supports the post. Rutgers has invested heavily in its football program for a long time.

Whether that has been appropriate - in terms of promoting the Rutgers academic brand is of course subject to debate.

My understanding is however - from the benefactor of the Rutgers Athletic Learning Program - is that the Rutgers Football Program has had great success in the classroom.

I am not personally familiar with the stats - that's just what I was told last week.

As far as looking for attention is concerned - yeah, I guess you're right. That's why all of us post on this board - to get somebody's attention.

You just did the same thing I did and you got my attention. Good job!

when rutgers start posting what their academic majors are,then maybe we can discuss that.

they brought in a D.T. a few years back that couldn't qualify for the florida schools.

 

[SWC75]

"Our WRs were blanketed by the the Rutgers LBs and DBs. The Rutgers defense hit hard - much harder than our defense hit."

We passed for 356 yards in that game, outgained them 418-237 and still had a shot to win the game despite 4 turnovers and a blocked kick returned for a touchdown.

By the way: are Connecticut's facilities as good as ours?

 

[Cuseman78]

Stop trolling. You are officially obsessed if you are going to spend that much time writing a post about a team no longer in our conference in a couple of months. As for the post itself? Utter Nonsense. Your obsession with them is wacky.

 

[DoctorBombay]

 

[raf4488]

i count 4 big east tittles for syracuse '91 '96' 97' 98

Since McNabb left, I mean- 4 way tie in '04

 

[CuyahogaCuse]

The group think on this board is a very interesting subject. For many issues there develops a conventional wisdom that becomes SyracuseFan.com law. I think the perception of Rutgers on this board falls into that category. ...

I was at the game last week in NJ. I was lucky enough to sit a few rows off the field. I saw both teams up close. ...

... the presumption that many have on this board seem to have and have had for awhile now - that we have as much talent as Rutgers - is the essence of a social network myopia.

OPA, I can only think that your entire post is a long retort to my questioning your comment about Syracuse talent vs. Rutgers talent in an earlier post today. So please take this with the respect that is intended. Your post count exceeds mine by about 2,500 and it's probably +10,000 if you go back through all the iterations of our boards. But I've been around just as long. So, respectfully, please consider:

While you seem to think group think forms opinions here (your right, it does), I can't help but think the sun must have been in your eyes last week. You know that you've become the board contrarian, and it's evident in the positions you've taken on a number of issues. In another post, you actually stated that UConn was only a few players away!?! Of course, it's not the guys in charge over there. We know your opinion on that topic.

But back to my point. During the latter stages of the blowout last night (how wonderful is it to write that), your name came up in the chat. And you had one board's most treasured and trusted posters go to bat for you. Your fandom is not to be questioned. But you are simply not correct regarding RU and Syracuse in 2012. Your fandom doesn't change that fact.

Syracuse and Rutgers are 2-2 in the Marrone era. There is no doubting that we were horrible during the pre-Marrone/post Pasqualoni period, where RU - and everyone - passed us by. And, as much as it puts holes in your defense of Paul, I'll even go so far as to say that losing to RU in 1999 and the 4-2 record we had against them in the last six years he was here, was evidence of the "investment" they were putting in their program, allowing them to pull close to even and then pass us by. (4-2 over six years is a far cry from 70-14 in 1998 and the many beatdowns that preceded that).

But Rutgers and Syracuse in 2012 are two evenly matched teams. While they've had more "success" during the last four years, on the field, head to head, where the hits happen and the "talent" is present, the results are -8, -3, +3, +18 during that time. The Syracuse team that you felt was "less talented" last week actually dominated the game everywhere but the turnover line and on the scoreboard. Those things count. But play the game ten times, home and home, and it's probably 5-5. Switch schedules, and no way is RU 7-0 right now. Maybe they aren't 3-4 either. But that's more about us learning how to win and close out games than it is about the talent level.

Some advice if I may, take some time and enjoy your team. The day after arguably our most lopsided win in a decade, you are posting a defense of your position on one of our past opponents, and you continue your longstanding defense of our great coach of the 1990's, despite the fact that an entire fan base wants him gone for the same things that frustrated most of us for so long. Don't worry so much about how many players away UConn is or how talented Rutgers is. Those teams are in our past. Our future is bright. Here's to our Orangemen, who are quickly growing up. You are right, we're not "there" yet. But we're close. So worry less about being "right" on divisive issues and enjoy the ride.