Talent reality

[xc84]

I'd prefer Scott to Gerg.

 

[GoSU96]

Who was worse?

Considering Gerg was hired in 2004...

 

[Franz69]

I looked at a 2019 mock draft. Obviously a long way off and anything can happen, but they project Clemson will have three of their defensive lineman go in the top 20 picks.

 

[PAcuse]

Considering Gerg was hired in 2004...

Greg recruited NFL talent that propelled FHCDM into multiple bowl games. FHCSS recruitment has shown it was hot garbage, sure he had a bowl game win (with FHCDMs players) but he looked confused a bunch during games, he did not hire an overall good staff. Both Robinson and Shafer should never have been HC for us, but Robinson's recruiting was light years ahead of Shafer, I'm sure Dougie would agree with this statement.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah I’m not really sure what the argument is for Shafer being worse than Greg Robinson but I’m certainly open to it.

 

[SoBristol]

We have had a major talent drain since 2012.
Greg Robinson recruited our last really good talent.
He sucked as a coach but he got Nassib, Pugh, Chandler Jones.

Marrone got Bromley 3rd and Sharmako Thomas 4th round picks.

Our pro talent has been piss poor.
Dino is cleaning that up.

Let's be honest -- our program has been short of talent & depth since Paul P was head coach (2012 was an exception). GROB brought in a few stars (the ones you mention plus DeLeone Carter), but his classes were top-heavy with little depth. Marrone relied on jucos to fill gaps, did not build the recruiting as much as many hoped, and left Shafer a bad hand for recruiting the 2013 class with the timing of the transition.

Bottom line, there are challenges in recruiting kids to SU. Dino may be cleaning that up, and his classes are clearly deeper. Still, it is a struggle -- has yet to make a mark in bringing in top talent at RB, WR, LB. Needs a winning record and a bowl game to help his pitch.

 

[TheCusian]

Greg recruited NFL talent that propelled FHCDM into multiple bowl games. FHCSS recruitment has shown it was hot garbage, sure he had a bowl game win (with FHCDMs players) but he looked confused a bunch during games, he did not hire an overall good staff. Both Robinson and Shafer should never have been HC for us, but Robinson's recruiting was light years ahead of Shafer, I'm sure Dougie would agree with this statement.

This is true - but I think we need to remember that along with recruiting sucking, our yearly competition has gotten definitively better since joining the ACC. Dino is facing a sos no other HC here has faced in a looong time all with lesser talent. It really does make the two marquee wins the last two years even more impressive.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Greg recruited NFL talent that propelled FHCDM into multiple bowl games. FHCSS recruitment has shown it was hot garbage, sure he had a bowl game win (with FHCDMs players) but he looked confused a bunch during games, he did not hire an overall good staff. Both Robinson and Shafer should never have been HC for us, but Robinson's recruiting was light years ahead of Shafer, I'm sure Dougie would agree with this statement.

Greg Robinson’s default setting was confusion. Also, he hired Brian Pariani.

 

[Alsacs]

Let's be honest -- our program has been short of talent & depth since Paul P was head coach (2012 was an exception). GROB brought in a few stars (the ones you mention plus DeLeone Carter), but his classes were top-heavy with little depth. Marrone relied on jucos to fill gaps, did not build the recruiting as much as many hoped, and left Shafer a bad hand for recruiting the 2013 class with the timing of the transition.

Bottom line, there are challenges in recruiting kids to SU. Dino may be cleaning that up, and his classes are clearly deeper. Still, it is a struggle -- has yet to make a mark in bringing in top talent at RB, WR, LB. Needs a winning record and a bowl game to help his pitch.

I agree GRob’s classes were top heavy and not good enough depth.
However you can win some games with high end talent in the pipes.
Depth is necessary and that was a big problem but the high end talent that Robinson brought in with a solid coach in Marrone lead to our best season in 2012.

Marrone couldn’t recruit the high end talent that GRob did but he coached well and filled in depth as you said via JUCOs.

Shafer was completely over his head.
He wasn’t a good recruiter and wasn’t HC material.

Dino is bringing in depth and higher
Level of talent.

Our schedule last year ate up that team. It was way too stacked for a team that could and should have won 6 games.
Unlike Shafer I have confidence and patience for Dino. If he can’t do it at SU I am not sure who can.

 

[PAcuse]

Greg Robinson’s default setting was confusion. Also, he hired Brian Pariani.

They both made terrible post game quotes
They both looked like idiots on the sidelines
FHCSS hired George McDonald, Joe Adams, etc
FHCSS did not know how to run a red zone offense. See Virginia's game where he felt it was a great idea to run an option play on the 1 yard line and many other numerous calls.

 

[SoBristol]

I agree GRob’s classes were top heavy and not good enough depth.
However you can win some games with high end talent in the pipes.
Depth is necessary and that was a big problem but the high end talent that Robinson brought in with a solid coach in Marrone lead to our best season in 2012.

Marrone couldn’t recruit the high end talent that GRob did but he coached well and filled in depth as you said via JUCOs.

....

Our schedule last year ate up that team. It was way too stacked for a team that could and should have won 6 games.
Unlike Shafer I have confidence and patience for Dino. If he can’t do it at SU I am not sure who can.

Seems like we are in raging agreement. Marrone proved you can win and get to bowls, if you are smart about adding jucos & have a little high end talent -- and if you focus on an aggressive defense and win tight games (2010) or have good senior talent in key positions (2012). Certainly agree that Dino has the personal traits to be a good recruiter and this should be the year he gets off the 4 - 8 treadmill.

Ironically, last year's team got off the rails against a Shafer-coached defense (MTSU). And then 0 for November. Now, Dino has built up the lines, on both sides, so we have a chance. And, with 4 open scholarships, maybe he can find a few more players to fill gaps.

 

[Scooch]

This is our recent talent reality:

Syracuse Drafted Players/Alumni | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Past 4 years we've had two guys drafted, both in the 7th round, one being a punter.

To paraphrase Ty Webb: that's... not good... it stinks.

Compare that to, say, 1996-2002, where we had 16 guys drafted, including 1st round selections in 5 out of 6 years.

Hell, even compare it to 2009-2013, where we had 11 guys drafted, including two 1st rounders.

Feels like Dino's getting us closer to being physically competitive with our ACC brethren. We desperately need it.

 

[blizz]

Next year I can't really see us having anyone drafted outside of Slayton and *maybe* a healthy Eric Dungey?

Shafer might have been the worst recruiter in Syracuse football history.

Ravian Pierce
Koda Martin

I think these guys will have a shot at getting drafted depending on the year they have.

Just curious of your opinion.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Welcome to 2018 where we argue who stunk more as a head coach here

 

[orangenauburn]

Ravian? I know, a Dino kid

Next year I can't really see us having anyone drafted outside of Slayton and *maybe* a healthy Eric Dungey?

Shafer might have been the worst recruiter in Syracuse football history.

 

[orangenauburn]

Ravian Pierce
Koda Martin

I think these guys will have a shot at getting drafted depending on the year they have.

Just curious of your opinion.

Both Dino guys and both kids who will get drafted

 

[Sudano]

Yeah I’m not really sure what the argument is for Shafer being worse than Greg Robinson but I’m certainly open to it.

This is like arguing which cabin you wanted on the Titantic.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think we all are finally seeing the ugly underbelly of what FHCSS did to this program. Many many people wore thick orange classes, myself included, while he was our coach. He was a good to great DC, but our worst coach of this century and easily top 5 worse head coaches at SU.
Need Dino to get us to a bowl game this year and then keep the recruiting momentum going strong.

You think Shafer was worse than Robinson?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who was worse?

Greg Robinson. I don't blame you for forgetting his name.

 

[bigmike]

Unfortunately, I think the following applies to both:

Peter Principle

 

[PAcuse]

You think Shafer was worse than Robinson?

Greg Robinson. I don't blame you for forgetting his name.

At the end of the day Robinson actually brought NFL talent to Syracuse. Morone was able to bring SU back to being "okay" quickly. Dino has struggled two years with the "talent" that was left for him. I think it's a neck and neck race to see which one was worse but I give the title to FHCSS by an inch or three.

 

[SoBristol]

At the end of the day Robinson actually brought NFL talent to Syracuse. Morone was able to bring SU back to being "okay" quickly. Dino has struggled two years with the "talent" that was left for him. I think it's a neck and neck race to see which one was worse but I give the title to FHCSS by an inch or three.

Significant differences -- Marrone had a durable QB in Nassib, who never missed a game. Marrone went deep into the juco pool for a quick infusion --concentrating on rebuilding his lines. Marrone relied on ball control, a running attack, and Shafer's attacking defense. Marrone competed in the Big East.

Babers installed new schemes on both sides of the ball, playing fast, air raid offense, combined with a more passive defense. Pretty much the opposite of Marrone's philosophy. Competing in a stacked ACC division.

The comparative results in year 2 might not say that much about the recruiting prowess of their predecessors.

 

[IthacaMatt]

At the end of the day Robinson actually brought NFL talent to Syracuse. Morone was able to bring SU back to being "okay" quickly. Dino has struggled two years with the "talent" that was left for him. I think it's a neck and neck race to see which one was worse but I give the title to FHCSS by an inch or three.

Fair enough. Robinson certainly did get us some good recruits.

 

[NJCuse97]

The most embarrassing posts on this board where when Shafer people said we can’t fire him because the whole team will transfer and it will kill recruiting.

Those people were defending a staff they probably got info from it was embarrassing. I said when we hired Shafer we hired the painter after the architect left.

I love this analogy and as an architect, I will now use it often.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Shafer didn't get fired we would have had G-Rob like seasons the past two years.