Talent reality | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Talent reality

A lot of animosity to unpack here...

First of all, I don't care about how these kids do in the NFL, I care about their college production which is what they were recruited to SU to do. All of the guys I listed were/will continue to be producers in the ACC. ...

Babers is in year 3. The list of Shafers productive recruits I listed could possibly include 11 starters for this upcoming season. Babers definitely gets credit for coaching the team to wins over VT and Clemson, but Shafers recruits actually won those games.

Well, would we have won those games if Shafer was still coaching? I don't think so, personally. Shafer had meltdowns against big opponents, like that embarrassing showing against Clemson where he was shown on national TV shouting curses across the field at Dabo. He sent Dungey into a game when he knew he was already injured, and then his defense of that in the press conference afterwards was all you needed to know about his ability to lead.

Let's let Shafer slip into the past without this need to defend him so much. We went through this with Pasqualoni and DeLeone. Shafer's results speak for themselves. His wife may think he got screwed, but he didn't have the personality to be able to be an effective coach. He was way too emotional.
 
A lot of animosity to unpack here...

First of all, I don't care about how these kids do in the NFL, I care about their college production which is what they were recruited to SU to do. All of the guys I listed were/will continue to be producers in the ACC. I don't disagree his hiring set us back from the Marrone years. I listed the reasons why in regards to his recruiting. Too many misses. To act like he gave us absolutely nothing is dramatic in my opinion. What are you going to say about Babers if we go 4-8 again?

Babers is in year 3. The list of Shafers productive recruits I listed could possibly include 11 starters for this upcoming season. Babers definitely gets credit for coaching the team to wins over VT and Clemson, but Shafers recruits actually won those games.
Babers needs to win but I have complete faith in him and would give him a raise and an extension now.
Up his assistants budget.
Keep him happy.
If he can’t get it done I don’t know who will.
He gets it.

Shafer’s recruiting wasn’t good. Of course he left what we won with but that doesn’t vindicate his recruiting.

If Dino left tomorrow his successor would have more in the pipes than any of last 3 coaches.
Shafer did bring in Erv and Ishmael.
But all P5 teams have that talent Dino’s system made them all-Americans.
Just because Shafer brought in 2 doesn’t mean he was good. Dino is bringing in WRs with more talent.
 
Well, would we have won those games if Shafer was still coaching? I don't think so, personally. Shafer had meltdowns against big opponents, like that embarrassing showing against Clemson where he was shown on national TV shouting curses across the field at Dabo. He sent Dungey into a game when he knew he was already injured, and then his defense of that in the press conference afterwards was all you needed to know about his ability to lead.

Let's let Shafer slip into the past without this need to defend him so much. We went through this with Pasqualoni and DeLeone. Shafer's results speak for themselves. His wife may think he got screwed, but he didn't have the personality to be able to be an effective coach. He was way too emotional.

I never denied that Babers was a better coach than Shafer. I even said in my post, "Babers definitely gets credit for coaching the team to wins over VT and Clemson". I was just stating that he coached Shafers recruits to those wins, not his own.

I'm fine with letting Shafer slip into the past. It's the people who hate him so much that won't let him go. I'm just responding to their emotional irrationality with some perspective.
 
Babers needs to win but I have complete faith in him and would give him a raise and an extension now.
Up his assistants budget.
Keep him happy.
If he can’t get it done I don’t know who will.
He gets it.

Shafer’s recruiting wasn’t good. Of course he left what we won with but that doesn’t vindicate his recruiting.

If Dino left tomorrow his successor would have more in the pipes than any of last 3 coaches.
Shafer did bring in Erv and Ishmael.
But all P5 teams have that talent Dino’s system made them all-Americans.
Just because Shafer brought in 2 doesn’t mean he was good. Dino is bringing in WRs with more talent.


I mostly agree with your first paragraph.

I stated in my post that Shafers recruiting wasn't good enough.

Your final paragraph is a hodgepodge of one fact, and a lot of assumptions.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again, Babers is getting more money and resources than any Syracuse staff before him. He's doing and saying all the right things and has a track record to back himself up, but the only thing that will matter in the end is wins. Everything else is just fan board debate talk.
 
Well, would we have won those games if Shafer was still coaching? I don't think so, personally. Shafer had meltdowns against big opponents, like that embarrassing showing against Clemson where he was shown on national TV shouting curses across the field at Dabo. He sent Dungey into a game when he knew he was already injured, and then his defense of that in the press conference afterwards was all you needed to know about his ability to lead.

Let's let Shafer slip into the past without this need to defend him so much. We went through this with Pasqualoni and DeLeone. Shafer's results speak for themselves. His wife may think he got screwed, but he didn't have the personality to be able to be an effective coach. He was way too emotional.

That game is what turned me. He gave one explanation and his OC gave another, neither of them very good. It seemed like nobody was in charge.
 
I'm not sure anyone is really arguing it at this point but just a reminder of how bad of a recruiter Shafer was. He used up dozens of scholarships on non-power 5 players. Here's where all these guys ended up:

Recruits in Shafer's class that Dino dumped:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, ended up at UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(Buffalo)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to EMCC, Western Michigan)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isiah McDuffie committed to BC.

2016 Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

2017 Transfers:

Cordell Hudson(Mid Tennessee St.)
Daivon Ellison(Duquesne)
Adly Enoicy
 
I'm not sure anyone is really arguing it at this point but just a reminder of how bad of a recruiter Shafer was. He used up dozens of scholarships on non-power 5 players. Here's where all these guys ended up:

Recruits in Shafer's class that Dino dumped:
Monquavion Brinson(Georgia Southern)
Noel Brouse(UConn)
Cam DeGeorge: (UConn)
Brandon Ginnetti(Rhode Island)
Will Harper(Tulane)
DE Jamal Holloway(unqualified, ended up at UNLV)
Sadiq Palmer(UMass)
Dymelle Parker(Towson)
Taylor Riggins(Buffalo)
Lindsey Scott(LSU, transferred to EMCC, Western Michigan)
Darius Stubbs(Georgia State)

2017, Isiah McDuffie committed to BC.

2016 Transfers:
Trey Dunkelberger(Western Illinois)
Anthony Giudice(Fordham)
Kenterius Womack
Corey Winfield(WVU, 5th year)
Jordan Fredericks(UMass)
Tyler Cross(Butler JUCO)
Chauncey Scissum(UNLV)
Alryk Perry(Valdosta State)
Kendall Moore(Texas)
Austin Wilson(Coastal Carolina)
Jon Burton

2017 Transfers:

Cordell Hudson(Mid Tennessee St.)
Daivon Ellison(Duquesne)
Adly Enoicy
Winfield was a Nathaniel Hackett recruit.
I wouldn’t even give him to Shafer.
He committed right before Hackett left in 2013.
 
We should have one player per year that is top 3 round caliber. That’s my reference point for the program maxing out its recruiting chops.

SU has a long history of top 3 round NFL picks - depth has been and will continue to be the program’s Achilles’ heel.
If your standards are 1 top player in the top 3 rounds per year, that means alot more 4-8 seasons ahead.
Expect more.
 
The list should be P
Marrone

Babers - 8 and 16 is still 8 and 16, but I have faith it will get better






Shafer













Gerg
My ranking of SU coaches this century

BABERS, (Incomplete but I feel confident this is where he will end up.)

MARRONE (Solid but a bit too conservative)




SHAFER (A great defensive coach promoted to his level of incompetence)









ROBINSON (Clueless about what it took to win at this level)
he
 
If your standards are 1 top player in the top 3 rounds per year, that means alot more 4-8 seasons ahead.
Expect more.

It shouldn’t. In the last golden era (1987-2002) we had 24 top 3 round picks (18 in rounds 1 & 2).

I realize college football is vastly different today but I think averaging 1.5 top 3 round players over the next 15 years would signal a return to our historical place in recruiting and translate to consistent 7-5 to 9-3 years.

Edit - I do expect more but I think it’s a reasonable yardstick to assess the talent level coming into the program.
 
The list should be P
Marrone

Babers - 8 and 16 is still 8 and 16, but I have faith it will get better






Shafer













Gerg

he


You're right. I left out Pasqualoni, who certainly coached in this century. I'd put him below Marrone, who inherited a mass and my ranking of Babers is where I think he will wind up being ranked.
 
Well, would we have won those games if Shafer was still coaching? I don't think so, personally. Shafer had meltdowns against big opponents, like that embarrassing showing against Clemson where he was shown on national TV shouting curses across the field at Dabo. He sent Dungey into a game when he knew he was already injured, and then his defense of that in the press conference afterwards was all you needed to know about his ability to lead.

Let's let Shafer slip into the past without this need to defend him so much. We went through this with Pasqualoni and DeLeone. Shafer's results speak for themselves. His wife may think he got screwed, but he didn't have the personality to be able to be an effective coach. He was way too emotional.

Shafer might be the only football coach I’ve seen get a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty. You just don’t see that very often in football. Granted it came after a horrid call if I remember, but it was in a big game at an important time(either Clemson or LSU). He wasn’t very good at keeping his composure.
 
It shouldn’t. In the last golden era (1987-2002) we had 24 top 3 round picks (18 in rounds 1 & 2).

I realize college football is vastly different today but I think averaging 1.5 top 3 round players over the next 15 years would signal a return to our historical place in recruiting and translate to consistent 7-5 to 9-3 years.

Edit - I do expect more but I think it’s a reasonable yardstick to assess the talent level coming into the program.
Average 1.5 would mean any given year we would have six to eight high level NFL caliber draft talent playing. That alone should mean more wins
 
Under Michael Scott’s leadership, Scranton was the best performing branch at Dunder Mifflin.


No, everybody remembers that the Syracuse office was the big office.
 
No, everybody remembers that the Syracuse office was the big office.



syracuse-on-the-office-74535b35b8fb038d.jpg
 

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