Team is starting to look dead tired.

[swish7]

I would lean towards the later, but realistically, he simply doesn't get enough run time to make a true assessment. JB isn't going to change, he has used this annoying tactic with so many frosh his entire HOF career, it's certainly something I'm not a fan of. I don't see how such a constant short hook does any player any favors and has to really wane on one's confidence.

That'd be an interesting SWC type post. A look back at some of our quick hook players in year 1 of the quick hook, and their performance in their senior years (whether they were at SU or moved on). You'd have to start with a list of who the quick hook players were.

Off-hand, the only one I can think of, and I'm not thinking too deeply about it, who survived the quick hook treatment, stayed with the program and had good moments later in his career, is Jeremy McNeil.

 

[orangecuse]

That'd be an interesting SWC type post. A look back at some of our quick hook players in year 1 of the quick hook, and their performance in their senior years (whether they were at SU or moved on). You'd have to start with a list of who the quick hook players were.

Off-hand, the only one I can think of, and I'm not thinking too deeply about it, who survived the quick hook treatment, stayed with the program and had good moments later in his career, is Jeremy McNeil.

Yeah, that would be interesting...for me, one that quickly stands out was "Jumping Jack," Dave Johnson.

 

[longislandcuse]

Ennis had a decent amount of rest last night and was off. His play can't really be attributed to being overplayed.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

During the Duke game, Roberson had a nice dunk in transition. After the dunk Dick Vitale said something along the lines of - he may be a freshman, but he was the top player in New Jersey, I think he should get more playing time. Presumably, Vitale went back to talking about how Boehiem needs a statue afterwards.

You can see the dunk at the 22 second mark in the video below.

 

[OttoMets]

That'd be an interesting SWC type post. A look back at some of our quick hook players in year 1 of the quick hook, and their performance in their senior years (whether they were at SU or moved on). You'd have to start with a list of who the quick hook players were.

Off-hand, the only one I can think of, and I'm not thinking too deeply about it, who survived the quick hook treatment, stayed with the program and had good moments later in his career, is Jeremy McNeil.

I'd put Christmas, Cooney, and Duany on the positive list. The hooks have gotten quicker, too - Lazarus Sims and Otis Hill were often in the doghouse, but I don't remember either of them getting pulled after less than a minute of play.

Paul Harris, Fab Melo, and Bobby Lazor are three who jump out on the negative list (Harris and Melo played very well at times, but both left under less than ideal circumstances and Harris was kind of vocally put off by the treatment).

 

[orange79]

 

[longislandcuse]

It's tough to argue with it bc of the success of Waiters, MCW and now Cooney. All players with quick hooks who went on to dominate the following year but I'll admit, it's annoying. Roberson comes in knowing he must play flawless, makes one mistake and is back on the bench for the rest of the game. Meanwhile Fair is out there all game tugging at his shorts, getting bodied on the boards, air balling shots and having the ball taken away from him twice like a bully stole his lunch money.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Fab had the fastest hook I remember, and was the most improved in the following year, until now with Cooney. Enough to make him a 1st round pick. I'll ride with JB on this one. I used to get frustrated with it, but the results speak for themselves..

 

[tbonezone]

"sometimes the car that doesn't make that last pit stop wins with an empty tank at the finish."



believe that's also known as the underdog half court heave nothing left to lose strategy.
are we that team or are we indeed fighting for a championship?

 

[swish7]

Fab had the fastest hook I remember, and was the most improved in the following year, until now with Cooney. Enough to make him a 1st round pick. I'll ride with JB on this one. I used to get frustrated with it, but the results speak for themselves..

A select few players later success is not evidence that the quick hook is what made them better players. I'd wager that they were that good, or had that potential, all along. There is an article on Syracuse.com about Cooney's work ethic. It's a great read. That is what make him successful, not the early quick hooks.

The Waiters thing is kind of silly. He was what? a top 3 NBA pick?

I sort of get it with guys like Paul Harris, guys with huge potential whom would have these massive brain farts. With Roberson, I just don't get it. While he does seem to have a perpetual poopy face, in the little bit of time I've seen him play, he had a beautiful quick hitter dunk, similar to Ennis to Rak's give an go. He seems game enough to help the team right now. We almost desparately need help at that position. We lose DC and BMK. We have two games in which to offer him more minutes, prior to the Duke and UVA gauntlet. Yet, we tighten our shorts. I guess we are banking, everything, on BMK coming back in full strength. If that does not work out, then we are banking the entire tourney on 6 players, and favorable reffing.

If there is an issue with his attitude, i.e. he won't accept being a role player, then I get it. He's trying to break him down and remold him. If he's trying to punish him for not being perfect, then why are Fair and Grant and BMK given such leeway? Fair is good for 2 unforced errors a game. Grant is good for 3 alligator arm layups a game. BMK the same with bobbles. And all 3 are guilty of not boxing out.

By the way, in the NC State presser JB had something negative to say about everyone, but Fair.

I know it's all a psychological ploy. Just what it is that he is trying to accomplish, I don't quite follow. I don't need to. He's the HOFer. I get all that. Won't stop me from trying to understand it though.

 

[anomander]

I'd put Christmas, Cooney, and Duany on the positive list. The hooks have gotten quicker, too - Lazarus Sims and Otis Hill were often in the doghouse, but I don't remember either of them getting pulled after less than a minute of play.

Paul Harris, Fab Melo, and Bobby Lazor are three who jump out on the negative list (Harris and Melo played very well at times, but both left under less than ideal circumstances and Harris was kind of vocally put off by the treatment).

Damone Brown, and Hak are on the positive list. Poor Hak didn't make it past a minute on several occasions

i've actually come to the conclusion that it is a habit of Jim's. I don't even think he means to hook the guys anymore. Rak set the recrod he was getting the quick hook for 2.5 years. It only just ended because of BMK's injury. On several occasions yesterday i noticed Rak make a slight mistake and JB do his quick turn to the bench and try to send BMK in only to realize he isnt available.

I am chalking it up as JB just not being able to control himself. It's a motion he has become to accustomed to

 

[tbonezone]

" It's a motion he has become to accustomed to"

soft ball lob. too easy. won't go there.

 

[Czar]

Can Roberson provide one major facet (Offense, Defense, Rebounding, Passing) when he plays? I think it's pretty obvious he can provide rebounding without a doubt, and possibly some offense. He should be getting some time.

 

[GardenOrange]

With how well Rak is playing, I wonder if when BMK comes back we'll see some of Rak at the 4. You could argue that Xmas has been our best forward the past few games

Its's amazing how he has played better when he does not have to worry about getting yanked if he makes one mistake on defense.

 

[GardenOrange]

Can Roberson provide one major facet (Offense, Defense, Rebounding, Passing) when he plays? I think it's pretty obvious he can provide rebounding without a doubt, and possibly some offense. He should be getting some time.

Defensive rebounding is killing us. Rebounding is 90% effort. Roberson can give more effort than the totally gassed guys playing 35+ minutes every night.

 

[Cuse'91]

That'd be an interesting SWC type post. A look back at some of our quick hook players in year 1 of the quick hook, and their performance in their senior years (whether they were at SU or moved on). You'd have to start with a list of who the quick hook players were.

Off-hand, the only one I can think of, and I'm not thinking too deeply about it, who survived the quick hook treatment, stayed with the program and had good moments later in his career, is Jeremy McNeil.

Demetris Nichols started deeper inside JB's dog house than anyone imo... By his senior season, finished as one of the all time great Orangemen...

 

[OttoMets]

Demetris Nichols started deeper inside JB's dog house than anyone imo... By his senior season, finished as one of the all time great Orangemen...

That's true.

And I think that fact supports the position that the quick hook is detrimental. For two years we had talented teams (the core of our national championship team) but lacked a third consistent scorer. Nichols was a basket-case as his minutes were yanked around. He got comfortable just as the core of our talent graduated; we never sniffed postseason relevancy during that era.

Would the team have been more successful if Nichols had been fed consistent time at the 3? Who knows.

 

[ssbriefcase]

A select few players later success is not evidence that the quick hook is what made them better players. I'd wager that they were that good, or had that potential, all along. There is an article on Syracuse.com about Cooney's work ethic. It's a great read. That is what make him successful, not the early quick hooks.

The Waiters thing is kind of silly. He was what? a top 3 NBA pick?

I sort of get it with guys like Paul Harris, guys with huge potential whom would have these massive brain farts. With Roberson, I just don't get it. While he does seem to have a perpetual poopy face, in the little bit of time I've seen him play, he had a beautiful quick hitter dunk, similar to Ennis to Rak's give an go. He seems game enough to help the team right now. We almost desparately need help at that position. We lose DC and BMK. We have two games in which to offer him more minutes, prior to the Duke and UVA gauntlet. Yet, we tighten our shorts. I guess we are banking, everything, on BMK coming back in full strength. If that does not work out, then we are banking the entire tourney on 6 players, and favorable reffing.

If there is an issue with his attitude, i.e. he won't accept being a role player, then I get it. He's trying to break him down and remold him. If he's trying to punish him for not being perfect, then why are Fair and Grant and BMK given such leeway? Fair is good for 2 unforced errors a game. Grant is good for 3 alligator arm layups a game. BMK the same with bobbles. And all 3 are guilty of not boxing out.

By the way, in the NC State presser JB had something negative to say about everyone, but Fair.

I know it's all a psychological ploy. Just what it is that he is trying to accomplish, I don't quite follow. I don't need to. He's the HOFer. I get all that. Won't stop me from trying to understand it though.

Yeah, my point was not 'the quick hook made them better'. Basically it was in response to people who say it's a detriment and the whole 'damages their confidence' etc. Pointing to one dunk to me doesn't mean anything. I just think that JB pours in countless hours and stays up at night thinking and rethinking strategy and his personnel. Along with his assistants. They know the player and what's going on behind the scenes. I'm basically saying that I trust JB and the staff, and there has to be a reason, other than he's just stubborn and won't play so and so.. Nothing wrong with questioning him at all, I just think he's one step ahead of most who question him. And I haven't always felt that way about him.

 

[SUintheVille]

BMK needs to come back soon. If he does we can use RAK some at the 4 and spell CJ and Grant 7 min apiece or so. That would be enough. But if BMK doesn't come back soon we could be in real trouble.

Sorry but there's no way JB is going to play Rak at the 4 at this point in the season. It's out of JB's comfort zone, and Rak's too most likely since he's been at the 5 exclusively since DC2 has been out.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Baye Moussa Keita should come back, he was drilling twelve footers in warmups. It's too bad Coleman won't be back, was starting to look good this year and was getting decent playing time--hard to believe now, but he started the first ten or so games of the year. Hard to believe he'll be a junior next year.

 

[thebigeast44]

I wish when Roberson did come in, he only focused on one thing - getting rebounds. He was nicknamed the Beast in large part because of his prowess on the boards. He needs to stop trying to be a small forward and play like a power forward.

 

[two3zone]

During the Duke game, Roberson had a nice dunk in transition. After the dunk Dick Vitale said something along the lines of - he may be a freshman, but he was the top player in New Jersey, I think he should get more playing time. Presumably, Vitale went back to talking about how Boehiem needs a statue afterwards. You can see the dunk at the 22 second mark in the video below. YouTube Video

Unfortunately dunking is only one aspect of the game. If it was a dire part of the game the And 1 Mixtape dudes would be NBA champions. I'm sure Roberson will be fine but he looks more lost than Fab, dc2, and Christmas ever did.

 

[thebigeast44]

It would be interesting to see if Mike G could give CJ 5 minutes of rest a game. He is a natural small forward and his skills in that area are better than Roberson. Roberson is best used as Grant's sub. If Silent G could give Cooney, Ennis and CJ all 4-6 minutes of rest a game, that would really help the team.

 

[Orangeyes]

Tyler Roberson's Development Chart

Three games in Canada DNP Due To An Academic Issue

11/1/13 Holy Family 20 minutes 2 of 6 FG 0 for 1 FT 4 reb 1 stl 2 assists 4 points

11/5/2013 Ryerson 17 minutes 1 of 6 FG 2 for 2 FT 4 reb 4 points

11/8/13 Cornell 14 minutes 2 for 6 FG 4 reb 1 stl 1 to 4 points

11/12/13 Fordham 12 minutes 1 for 4 FG 3 for 4 FT 1 reb 1 bkl 5 points

11/16/13 Colgate 10 minutes 1 for 8 fg 5 reb 1 assist 1 stl 1 BS 2 points

11/18/13 St. Francis DNP

11/25/13 Minnesota DNP

11/26/2013 Cal DNP

11/27/2013 Baylor DNP

12/3/2013 Indiana 1 minute no stats

12/17/2013 Binghamton 14 minutes 1 of 4 FG 4 for 4 FT 5 reb 1 assist 6 points

12/15/2013 St. Johns DNP

12/20/2013 High Point 11 minutes 0 for 2 FG 1 reb 1 TO 0 points

12/28/2013 Villanova 4 minutes 1 reb 0 points

12/31/2103 E. Michigan 14 minutes 2 for 3 2 for 2 FT 5 reb 1 assist 1 TO 6 points

1/4/2014 Miami DNP

1/7/2014 VPI 13 minutes 1 for 2 FG 2 for 4 FT 3 reb 1 TO 4 points

1/11/2014 North Carolina DNP

1/13/2014 BC 3 minutes 0 for 1 FG 1 for 2 FT 1 Reb 1 point

1/18/2014 Pitt DNP

1/25/2014 Miami 3 minutes 1 reb 1 TO 0 points

1/29/2014 Wake Forest DNP

2/1/2014 Duke 5 minutes 1 for 2 FG 2 points

2/3/2014 Notre Dame 4 minutes 1 reb 1 TO 1 stl 2 points

2/9/2014 Clemson 7 minutes 0 for 2 FG 0 points

2/12/2014 Pitt DNP

2/15/2014 NC State 2 minutes 0 Points

Tyler has played 122 of the 1005 minutes SU has played in the regular season

CJ has logged 936, Tyler 863, Trevor 797, Jerami 766, Rakeem 573, Baye 363, Gbinije 327 and DC ended up with 169 before the injury

 

[Orangeyes]

Three Syracuse basketball players pile up minutes: Has it hurt offensive production?