Team is starting to look dead tired.

[TBCuse11]

the team is exhausted. we should have 2-4 losses already, which is no biggie, but i fear they will come at the worst possible time. Its well worth taking a loss to get Roberson a game where he plays 15 minutes.

 

[swish7]

CJ has logged 936, Tyler 863, Trevor 797, Jerami 766, Rakeem 573, Baye 363, Gbinije 327 and DC ended up with 169 before the injury

Given the limited play he's had, Roberson's rebounding numbers are very impressive.
CJ and Tyler's numbers are ridiculously high. They must be gassed.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Tyler Roberson's Development Chart

Three games in Canada DNP Due To An Academic Issue

11/1/13 Holy Family 20 minutes 2 of 6 FG 0 for 1 FT 4 reb 1 stl 2 assists 4 points

11/5/2013 Ryerson 17 minutes 1 of 6 FG 2 for 2 FT 4 reb 4 points

11/8/13 Cornell 14 minutes 2 for 6 FG 4 reb 1 stl 1 to 4 points

11/12/13 Fordham 12 minutes 1 for 4 FG 3 for 4 FT 1 reb 1 bkl 5 points

11/16/13 Colgate 10 minutes 1 for 8 fg 5 reb 1 assist 1 stl 1 BS 2 points

11/18/13 St. Francis DNP

11/25/13 Minnesota DNP

11/26/2013 Cal DNP

11/27/2013 Baylor DNP

12/3/2013 Indiana 1 minute no stats

12/17/2013 Binghamton 14 minutes 1 of 4 FG 4 for 4 FT 5 reb 1 assist 6 points

12/15/2013 St. Johns DNP

12/20/2013 High Point 11 minutes 0 for 2 FG 1 reb 1 TO 0 points

12/28/2013 Villanova 4 minutes 1 reb 0 points

12/31/2103 E. Michigan 14 minutes 2 for 3 2 for 2 FT 5 reb 1 assist 1 TO 6 points

1/4/2014 Miami DNP

1/7/2014 VPI 13 minutes 1 for 2 FG 2 for 4 FT 3 reb 1 TO 4 points

1/11/2014 North Carolina DNP

1/13/2014 BC 3 minutes 0 for 1 FG 1 for 2 FT 1 Reb 1 point

1/18/2014 Pitt DNP

1/25/2014 Miami 3 minutes 1 reb 1 TO 0 points

1/29/2014 Wake Forest DNP

2/1/2014 Duke 5 minutes 1 for 2 FG 2 points

2/3/2014 Notre Dame 4 minutes 1 reb 1 TO 1 stl 2 points

2/9/2014 Clemson 7 minutes 0 for 2 FG 0 points

2/12/2014 Pitt DNP

2/15/2014 NC State 2 minutes 0 Points

Tyler has played 122 of the 1005 minutes SU has played in the regular season

CJ has logged 936, Tyler 863, Trevor 797, Jerami 766, Rakeem 573, Baye 363, Gbinije 327 and DC ended up with 169 before the injury

Theres just no consistency with this data and I can't imagine what the kid is thinking from game to game.
Look, we all know its JB's pattern to do this and the only time he deviated even slightly was with that loaded 2012 squad where he was almost FORCED to extend his bench. Even then he shortened things in the post-season, which is fine.
When it comes to this strategy, I feel as helpless as a passenger in a car driven by a drunk driver, or a friend of a obsessive gambler watching him risk more & more with each roll of the dice. You see the threat, even if he doesn't. It is what it is. :bang:

 

[Orangeyes]

Theres just no consistency with this data and I can't imagine what the kid is thinking from game to game.
Look, we all know its JB's pattern to do this and the only time he deviated even slightly was with that loaded 2012 squad where he was almost FORCED to extend his bench. Even then he shortened things in the post-season, which is fine.
When it comes to this strategy, I feel as helpless as a passenger in a car driven by a drunk driver, or a friend of a obsessive gambler watching him risk more & more with each roll of the dice. You see the threat, even if he doesn't. It is what it is. :bang:

I think JB wants to win every game so much that he does so at the expense of developing players for the stretch run. I can totally understand his thinking and the fact he doesn't have the patience to live with mistakes that rookies are going to make when he has vets who know how to execute on both O & D.

In a perfect world you sacrifice a win, or two or three to develop depth for the post season but for someone as competitive as JB is that's a tough thing to do.

 

[themorey]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...ng_slump_over_the_past_four.html#incart_river

"That's tough for us," SU coach Boeheim said. "Without Baye we're playing six guys. And if I thought we could get another guy in there, I would. But I don't think we can. We're going to be a little tired. I'd rather have CJ in there for 40 than have somebody else in there for five who can't do what we need him to do."

Roberson aint getting it done in the eyes of coach. Unfortunate too as the team really needs some minutes from him.

 

[orangecuse]

I think JB wants to win every game so much that he does so at the expense of developing players for the stretch run. I can totally understand his thinking and the fact he doesn't have the patience to live with mistakes that rookies are going to make when he has vets who know how to execute on both O & D.

In a perfect world you sacrifice a win, or two or three to develop depth for the post season but for someone as competitive as JB is that's a tough thing to do.

I don't know, it seems quite myopic. JB's obviously been around the block once or twice, he as much as anyone knows that the only thing that really matters is the Dance and how well you do there...he has stated so himself. Therefore, it would be much better, imo, to sacrifice a game or two or three during the regular season, etc. to develop players so that they can contribute in some capacity come March, and, ultimately, making the team that much better prepared for a deep run...

 

[two3zone]

I don't know, it seems quite myopic. JB's obviously been around the block once or twice, he as much as anyone knows that the only thing that really matters is the Dance and how well you do there...he has stated so himself. Therefore, it would be much better, imo, to sacrifice a game or two or three during the regular season, etc. to develop players so that they can contribute in some capacity come March, and, ultimately, making the team that much better prepared for a deep run...

What if you sacrifice the games and the players don't develop like they should?


None of us see these guys practice on a constant basis. The coaching staff does. If they're doing great in practice they'd get time on the floor. JB knows some of these guys need breathers but he would rather have a gassed Fair than a fresh Roberson. What does that tell you? It tells me that JB doesn't think Roberson can handle any part of the back line of the zone. We've won games because of our defense, 5 minutes of a player who can't play the zone as JB needs could be the difference in a win and a loss. Would those 5 minutes really help Roberson be a better contributor for the post season? Absolutely not. You can sacrifice wins, I'll stick with the wins and play the best players as long as we need them.

 

[Consigliere]

Just don't get this whole concept. Ideally would we say Roberson should get 10 - 12 minutes a game giving Fair and Grant 2 to 3 minutes blow each half? I just can't see that being that big of an impact. Face it, the zone is a little less physically demanding and helps with stamina and the 4 media timeouts each half are a built in break. These are 19 - 22 year old kids in the best shape of their lives. I think we've just gone through a series of 4 poor offensive performances and we're trying to rationalize. I trust JB to manage the demands not just in games but in practice as well to keep everyone physically strong and fresh enough to keep rolling. Guarantee you that no one will look tired Saturday night.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I don't know, it seems quite myopic. JB's obviously been around the block once or twice, he as much as anyone knows that the only thing that really matters is the Dance and how well you do there...he has stated so himself. Therefore, it would be much better, imo, to sacrifice a game or two or three during the regular season, etc. to develop players so that they can contribute in some capacity come March, and, ultimately, making the team that much better prepared for a deep run...

Don't you see that JB does not feel Roberson is ready? SU could have easily lost the last two if JB played Roberson. Would it be worth it? You may not value an undefeated season, but I do. If SU can achieve that it would be special. It would rank ahead of just a NC. You don't give that up for some vague benefit in '14-'15.

Is it still myopic of JB to play the short bench, if that is how he is going to play in the NCAAT? Roberson is not in the plans as a contributor in March.

 

[thebigeast44]

If JB subs in for Fair at all, everyone keeps talking about Roberson being the guy. Why not Silent G? He has natural small forward skills and is further along in his development than Roberson. He's a better ball handler and shooter than Roberson. And Roberson is not that much bigger than Mike. I think Roberson should be Grant's backup - he's better suited at power forward at this stage of his development.

 

[Consigliere]

Don't you see that JB does not feel Roberson is ready? SU could have easily lost the last two if JB played Roberson. Would it be worth it? You may not value an undefeated season, but I do. If SU can achieve that it would be special. It would rank ahead of just a NC. You don't give that up for some vague benefit in '14-'15.

Is it still myopic of JB to play the short bench, if that is how he is going to play in the NCAAT? Roberson is not in the plans as a contributor in March.

Mentioned this in another thread but Roberson being a contributor would simply be a luxury. We've got a 7-man rotation of solid players that can really function like a 9-man rotation based on the versatility of it's components. Gbinijie can be a primary backup at 3 different positions giving us a solid 3 man rotation at guard and the option to swing down and contribute minutes at the 3. Fair and Grant can both man either the 3 or the 4 and now with Baye coming back we've got 10 fould at the 5 and the option of having the new and improved Rak fill in at the 4 if we need more size. Take any 2 players off the floor for 5 minutes and you only struggle if the 2 are Trevor and Tyler.

 

[moqui]

for Fair, it's not the minutes so much as the usage rate. CJ's usage rate in conference play is over 25%, and nobody else is even at 20%. And as of now he is our least efficient offensive player.

Now, I'm not saying someone else should be Option #1; just that the ball should be spread around bit more. Yes, with high usage your efficiency often declines, but I'm not saying make someone else high usage - just give everyone else a few more shots so that CJ's usage rate declines a bit while everyone else inches up just marginally. I bet CJ's - and the team's - efficiency increases.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

for Fair, it's not the minutes so much as the usage rate. CJ's usage rate in conference play is over 25%, and nobody else is even at 20%. And as of now he is our least efficient offensive player.

Now, I'm not saying someone else should be Option #1; just that the ball should be spread around bit more. Yes, with high usage your efficiency often declines, but I'm not saying make someone else high usage - just give everyone else a few more shots so that CJ's usage rate declines a bit while everyone else inches up just marginally. I bet CJ's - and the team's - efficiency increases.

I think a lot of it was by design, to just kind of reward CJ for coming back, to get stats and hype. And to be a carrot for the next possible deciders, that by staying they will be more featured (ie Ennis and/or Grant).

I was wondering if it might change for the big games. Now I'm not sure because of the success. But in the biggest of spots, at the very end of a game, I think Ennis has moved at least even with CJ, probably depends on the game situation.

 

[orangecuse]

What if you sacrifice the games and the players don't develop like they should?


None of us see these guys practice on a constant basis. The coaching staff does. If they're doing great in practice they'd get time on the floor. JB knows some of these guys need breathers but he would rather have a gassed Fair than a fresh Roberson. What does that tell you? It tells me that JB doesn't think Roberson can handle any part of the back line of the zone. We've won games because of our defense, 5 minutes of a player who can't play the zone as JB needs could be the difference in a win and a loss. Would those 5 minutes really help Roberson be a better contributor for the post season? Absolutely not. You can sacrifice wins, I'll stick with the wins and play the best players as long as we need them.

Well, your question is a pure hypothetical, which, of course, there's no way to know for certain. I do know this for a fact, there's no better way to learn and gain experience than through doing. Each and everyone of us has lived that in some way, shape, or form in our daily lives. How do you know that Roberson, or any other bench player for that matter, wouldn't rise to the occasion if given a legitimate shot? People can, and do, elevate themselves when situations arise, given the ample chance.

I certainly don't know if 5 minutes per game makes for a better contribution in the post season or not. But, who's to say that 5 minutes doesn't turn into 7, 8 or 10? You can have your opinion, but to claim so as an absolute is nonsense.

 

[orangecuse]

Don't you see that JB does not feel Roberson is ready? SU could have easily lost the last two if JB played Roberson. Would it be worth it? You may not value an undefeated season, but I do. If SU can achieve that it would be special. It would rank ahead of just a NC. You don't give that up for some vague benefit in '14-'15.

Is it still myopic of JB to play the short bench, if that is how he is going to play in the NCAAT? Roberson is not in the plans as a contributor in March.

Really, that's comical. SU could've easily had lost the last 2 without Roberson...like they just about did. I think going undefeated is improbable, not invaluable. Roberson isn't in the plans comes March because JB historically only really likes to play 7 guys. He believes and has always felt that that renders the best offensive consistency and efficiency. It has always been his immensely preferred method and will always be the case, whether there are guys that could offer significant contribution or not...a direct behavioral trait. His approach has been extremely successful...

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Really, that's comical. SU could've easily had lost the last 2 without Roberson...like they just about did. I think going undefeated is improbable, not invaluable. Roberson isn't in the plans comes March because JB historically only really likes to play 7 guys. He believes and has always felt that that renders the best offensive consistency and efficiency. It has always been his immensely preferred method and will always be the case, whether there are guys that could offer significant contribution or not...a direct behavioral trait. His approach has been extremely successful...

Of course they could have lost with Roberson in there, they almost lost without him in there.

And if JB is genetically programmed to play 7, why isn't Roberson in there now? There are only 6 now. If Roberson was anywhere near ready, in JB's eyes, he would be playing. Remember Grant playing last year when JSouth was out?

You spout like you know all JB's preferences and behavioral traits. What bunk. I believe JB would certainly like to go deeper if he felt he had the players. Don't you think DC2 would be seeing time if he were healthy? And last year we went wtih 8.

Roberson is not seeing time because JB does not feel he is ready. Not some behavioral trait conspiracy.

 

[two3zone]

Of course they could have lost with Roberson in there, they almost lost without him in there. And if JB is genetically programmed to play 7, why isn't Roberson in there now? There are only 6 now. If Roberson was anywhere near ready, in JB's eyes, he would be playing. Remember Grant playing last year when JSouth was out? You spout like you know all JB's preferences and behavioral traits. What bunk. I believe JB would certainly like to go deeper if he felt he had the players. Don't you think DC2 would be seeing time if he were healthy? And last year we went wtih 8. Roberson is not seeing time because JB does not feel he is ready. Not some behavioral trait conspiracy.

Bravo!!!! People are acting insane like this is shocking.

I made posts in the beginning of the year when a majority of posters were hyping Roberson as a 20+ minute a game guy and I flat out debunked it as Grant, Fair, and Christmas (and possibly G) were ahead of him.

With what JB does, he plays "his guys" as much as possible because they're better, smarter, and giving him the best chance to win the game. This isn't new news folks!!!

It's very rare for a guy to come in and take minutes away from somebody, maybe a little Waiters over Triche but outside of that it doesn't really happen. If Grant stays (I don't think he does) it still doesn't guarantee Roberson minutes with G obviously more trusted at the three, Rak coming back at the 4 for some minutes and McCullough coming in.

 

[Eagles20]

Competitors hate to lose obviously, but wouldn't Roberson playing a few more minutes possibly boost his confidence and settle him down which could lead to more production. If a player knows he's on such a short leash, he's probably pressing and nervous which leads to more mistakes.

If fair is saying his legs where not there and this lead to his poor shooting performances how is him playing steady 40 minutes the rest of the way going to help this team. I know everyone including myself wants them to finish the season undefeated, but I'd rather have him fresh for when it matters most in the Tournament, even if that means a sacrificing a few minutes of production by having Roberson in the game. All it takes is one bad shooting performance in the NCAA's to end the season and I would prefer it to not be blamed on tired legs.

 

[two3zone]

Competitors hate to lose obviously, but wouldn't Roberson playing a few more minutes possibly boost his confidence and settle him down which could lead to more production. If a player knows he's on such a short leash, he's probably pressing and nervous which leads to more mistakes. If fair is saying his legs where not there and this lead to his poor shooting performances how is him playing steady 40 minutes the rest of the way going to help this team. I know everyone including myself wants them to finish the season undefeated, but I'd rather have him fresh for when it matters most in the Tournament, even if that means a sacrificing a few minutes of production by having Roberson in the game. All it takes is one bad shooting performance in the NCAA's to end the season and I would prefer it to not be blamed on tired legs.

I for one don't know what playing Roberson 10 minutes a game is going to do. I don't know if it makes us better for the whole game leading to a win or makes us worse and leads us to a loss. I don't think JB knows this either but he does know that the guys he currently plays know the defense and know his system. And what we have seen from Roberson on the offensive side has been poor to put it at best.

 

[orangecuse]

Of course they could have lost with Roberson in there, they almost lost without him in there.

And if JB is genetically programmed to play 7, why isn't Roberson in there now? There are only 6 now. If Roberson was anywhere near ready, in JB's eyes, he would be playing. Remember Grant playing last year when JSouth was out?

You spout like you know all JB's preferences and behavioral traits. What bunk. I believe JB would certainly like to go deeper if he felt he had the players. Don't you think DC2 would be seeing time if he were healthy? And last year we went wtih 8.

Roberson is not seeing time because JB does not feel he is ready. Not some behavioral trait conspiracy.

Go back and re-read your preceding post. You stated that SU could've easily lost the last two games if JB played Roberson, insinuating that playing him would've been a practical certainty. There's just no way you can accurately make that assessment, it's your pure opinion. My response was SU could have (maybe even should have) lost the last two games even without playing him...so, I'm not following your logic...

Stop using absolutes. I never stated I knew all of JB's preferences, etc., just my opinion based upon years and years of observation. No conspiracy either, stop the non-sense. You don't have to agree, again, it's just my opinion based upon the aforementioned.

And, FWIW, if Coleman was healthy, I don't believe he would be seeing any significant minutes, certainly not in the second half of games when the outcome was in doubt. Remember, even though he started games this year, he was quickly yanked and in several games didn't even see the second half. Additionally, I don't believe (again, just my opinion based on decades of observation) JB would play more than 7 players (at least not minutes of significance) even if he had them because it just isn't his preferred method and goes against his grain/comfort zone.

 

[orangecuse]

I for one don't know what playing Roberson 10 minutes a game is going to do. I don't know if it makes us better for the whole game leading to a win or makes us worse and leads us to a loss. I don't think JB knows this either but he does know that the guys he currently plays know the defense and know his system. And what we have seen from Roberson on the offensive side has been poor to put it at best.

I just don't know how you can make that assessment about Roberson when there just really isn't enough data to conclude such. :noidea:

 

[two3zone]

I just don't know how you can make that assessment about Roberson when there just really isn't enough data to conclude such. :noidea:

There is the data as he has played. He has not looked comfortable on the court once. And outside of dunks his shot looks forced and rushed. I remember one wide open shot he had and he look flustered. He's not ready.

 

[rrlbees]

for Fair, it's not the minutes so much as the usage rate. CJ's usage rate in conference play is over 25%, and nobody else is even at 20%. And as of now he is our least efficient offensive player. Now, I'm not saying someone else should be Option #1; just that the ball should be spread around bit more. Yes, with high usage your efficiency often declines, but I'm not saying make someone else high usage - just give everyone else a few more shots so that CJ's usage rate declines a bit while everyone else inches up just marginally. I bet CJ's - and the team's - efficiency increases.

We need more Cooney and Christmas according to that chart.

 

[two3zone]

Go back and re-read your preceding post. You stated that SU could've easily lost the last two games if JB played Roberson, insinuating that playing him would've been a practical certainty. There's just no way you can accurately make that assessment, it's your pure opinion. My response was SU could have (maybe even should have) lost the last two games even without playing him...so, I'm not following your logic... Stop using absolutes. I never stated I knew all of JB's preferences, etc., just my opinion based upon years and years of observation. No conspiracy either, stop the non-sense. You don't have to agree, again, it's just my opinion based upon the aforementioned. And, FWIW, if Coleman was healthy, I don't believe he would be seeing any significant minutes, certainly not in the second half of games when the outcome was in doubt. Remember, even though he started games this year, he was quickly yanked and in several games didn't even see the second half. Additionally, I don't believe (again, just my opinion based on decades of observation) JB would play more than 7 players (at least not minutes of significance) even if he had them because it just isn't his preferred method and goes against his grain/comfort zone.

I could say the same about Nolan Hart. If he played in those games we don't know if they win or lose.

We won, we've been winning, and we'll probably continue to win. With or without Roberson.