That's called "drawing the foul"

[SWC75]

Jackson's man jumps in the air. Jackson moves into him and gets the call.

Hey, if it works...

 

[two3zone]

Jackson's man jumps in the air. Jackson moves into him and gets the call. Hey, if it works...

And travels beforehand. Haha. Wow

 

[NineOneSeven]

Onions. This year has been just incredible irony.

 

[Alsacs]

Wisconsin could use Tyler Ennis here.

 

[two3zone]

Wisconsin could use Tyler Ennis here.

We had him at the end of Dayton and it didn't work.

 

[Cowtown]

The defender jumped into the shooter. He was out of postion and was responsible for the contact. It was a good call.

 

[SWC75]

The defender jumped into the shooter. He was out of postion and was responsible for the contact. It was a good call.

The defender jumped into the air and the shooter moved to make sure he was there when the defender came down, (and traveled doing it). It's not a good call but it's one the shooter will get every time.

 

[Orange Barrel]

C'mon Steve. The refs are never wrong.

 

[Cowtown]

Speaking of traveling, Randle seems to have that part of his NBA skill set solidly developed. I didn't notice whether Jackson traveled, but I'm starting to see that particular NBA-ish influence/interpretation more and more. Ugh.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Who was PF from Rochester who made a career at SU faking the jump shot and getting his man in the air then bumping him and shooting? Then to the FT lie. He also played in the NBA. About 30 years ago.. none other than MARTY BYRNES

 

[Pat Kelly]

The defender jumped into the air and the shooter moved to make sure he was there when the defender came down, (and traveled doing it). It's not a good call but it's one the shooter will get every time.

It's pretty common for an offensive player to jump into a defensive player to get a call... not sure why this is an issue...

 

[EnnisEnvy]

I can't tell you how many dozens of free throws I got in high school from that very move.

 

[upperdeck]

if the defender jumps out of control he will never get that call.. if he jumps straight up he would have been fine.

 

[SWC75]

It's pretty common for an offensive player to jump into a defensive player to get a call... not sure why this is an issue...

The fact that it is common is the issue. The shooter gets thatc all every time. But he's the one who initiated the contact.

 

[Cowtown]

if the defender jumps out of control he will never get that call.. if he jumps straight up he would have been fine.

Somebody gets it.

 

[Pat Kelly]

The fact that it is common is the issue. The shooter gets thatc all every time. But he's the one who initiated the contact.

I disagree with you. It's the defender's fault for leaving his feet--smart play on the offensive player's part.

 

[SWC75]

I disagree with you. It's the defender's fault for leaving his feet--smart play on the offensive player's part.

Do you disagree that it was actually the offensive player who initiated the contact? The guy actually traveled to get under the defender.

We do agree that the defender should not have jumped. That's a dumb play. But it doesn't mean that the defender initiated the contact.

 

[Cowtown]

Do you disagree that it was actually the offensive player who initiated the contact? The guy actually traveled to get under the defender.

We do agree that the defender should not have jumped. That's a dumb play. But it doesn't mean that the defender initiated the contact.

Who initiated the contact is less important than who has position. When the defender left his feet and jumped toward the shooter (as in, not straight up to which he's entitled) he gave up his legal guarding position. Therefore, since he doesn't have position, he's liable for the contact attendant to his being out of position. It's not the NBA, where the stars get every call. When you're out of position, you're lucky to get a "no call." The only ref you can fool with that is a new one, and there are none in the round of eight. Believe it. Way too many posters here know little about position, and yet it's critical. The refs are nowhere near as stupid as fans often think they are. At least the refs know what position is, and how it bears on the play. For those who want to argue rules, first learn the rules.

 

[SWC75]

Who initiated the contact is less important than who has position. When the defender left his feet and jumped toward the shooter (as in, not straight up to which he's entitled) he gave up his legal guarding position. Therefore, since he doesn't have position, he's liable for the contact attendant to his being out of position. It's not the NBA, where the stars get every call. When you're out of position, you're lucky to get a "no call." The only ref you can fool with that is a new one, and there are none in the round of eight. Believe it. Way too many posters here know little about position, and yet it's critical. The refs are nowhere near as stupid as fans often think they are. At least the refs know what position is, and how it bears on the play. For those who want to argue rules, first learn the rules.

But if the offensive guy has to travel to get into 'position', how can we say that he "had position"?

And who initiates the contact is certainly not irrelevant as to who actually committed a foul.

 

[Cowtown]

But if the offensive guy has to travel to get into 'position', how can we say that he "had position"?

And who initiates the contact is certainly not irrelevant as to who actually committed a foul.

OMFG.

1.) I didn't say who initiates the contact is irrelevant. I said it's less important than who has position.There's a difference. And if you don't understand that, stop right here.

2.) If there was no travel call, there was no traveling on the play. Either way, a missed travel call has no bearing on whether there was position established. If the ref called a travel, then the guy with the ball was never a shooter, and subsequent contact is generally incidental.

3.) "Legal Guarding Position" in this situation applies to the defender, not to the ball handler. Which is why (as I mentioned earlier) you "referee the defense." The defender either has position or he doesn't. Period. If the defender is out of position and creates contact, he's responsible for it. If he has position and the ball handler creates contact, that's a different decision. But that's not what happened on the play in question. At the time the shooter began his "habitual shooting motion" the defender was out of position. If you don't have position before the shooting act begins, you can't establish it after.

4.) Contact does not constitute a foul, so who initiated the contact is only part of the decision. "Disadvantage" constitutes a foul. So if you don't have position (Harrison gave it up when he jumped toward the shooter) and create contact that disadvantages the player with the ball when he's in the act of shooting, it's a foul.

Now I'm out of this freaking thread. JM&J.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Do you disagree that it was actually the offensive player who initiated the contact? The guy actually traveled to get under the defender.

We do agree that the defender should not have jumped. That's a dumb play. But it doesn't mean that the defender initiated the contact.

It doesn't matter who initiated the contact, unless the defender is jumping straight up and it's blatant which it wasn't. A travel wasn't called, so ignore that.

 

[SWC75]

It doesn't matter who initiated the contact, unless the defender is jumping straight up and it's blatant which it wasn't. A travel wasn't called, so ignore that.

The relevance of the travel is not whether the refs failed to call it but that the shooter had to do it to place himself where the contact would occur. The defender many not have been "in position" but neither was the shooter, who could have gone up with the shot from where he was without a disadvantage. Harrison didn't jump toward him. the shooter had to move to his left to position himself where Harrison jumped.

I agree Harrison made a dumb play and that the shooter, (Jackson) is going to get the call every time, so he made a smart play. But he moved over to create the foul. He didn't just create the contact: he created the disadvantage as well. He did it because he'd rather be at the foul line attempting three free throws than trying to make a three pointer. The irony was that he missed one of the three frees throws and Harrison drained the three at the other end to win the game. He created a disadvantage to give himself an advantage he didn't take advantage of.