Monday Mind Cakes - Not the real My Take

[FrancoPizza]

What did you say the other 3 home games this year when those seats were full?

Not criticizing the students but let’s be fair - they either show up late, leave at halftime or some combination of the above.

 

[007]

Nope.

They put out a fresh set for the Holy Cross game. I was there early.

Yup. And everything is cleared out and thrown out in and around the seating area after every game. There is an army of people doing this. The OP is mistaken.

 

[JRHEETER]

Nope.

They put out a fresh set for the Holy Cross game. I was there early.

Yeah ottos army literally made a facebook
Post about how this week they were giving out pom poms again

These weren’t from the first game LOL

They were new ones

 

[NJCuse97]

Thats my point as well. They didn't deserve that space.

So much hate for the very reason Syracuse University exists!

I've got news for you, the football team is entirely made up of students. Students' $75,000 plus per year along with so much of what they give post graduation is what funded the Dome refurbishment. It's what built the IPF. They also make up the other teams that compete well in a P4 conference with high academic standards (basketball, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, cross country, softball, volleyball, etc.).

Without students, the university would actually not exist.

But you're right. They don't deserve to pay additional money for seats to see their team, full of their classmates, and decide for themselves when they come and go to those seats. Let me know when your annual contribution is over $75,000 or you represent the school in competition or rankings of any sort. I guess there is new language on the tickets that requires you show up before kickoff and not leave until the alma mater is sung (their alma mater)? I'm glad you've never been late arriving or left early.

 

[NJCuse97]

Not criticizing the students but let’s be fair - they either show up late, leave at halftime or some combination of the above.

Sounds an awful lot like criticism to me.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Indeed.

I don't own the phrase 'My Take' and everyone should feel free to use it if they like.

Good stuff Pyle.

But shouldn't you be getting NIL for your posts?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Sounds an awful lot like criticism to me.

I’m just balancing the take that said the students have been amazing… for the 2 quarters they are actually there.

I can understand the late arrivals for a nooner. We’ve all been in college. And I can understand leaving early if it’s a blowout. But many of the students left at halftime of the Stanford game… because it was Friday night and they had better things to do. The team needs them to stay when it matters.

 

[NJCuse97]

I’m just balancing the take that said the students have been amazing… for the 2 quarters they are actually there.

I can understand the late arrivals for a nooner. We’ve all been in college. And I can understand leaving early if it’s a blowout. But many of the students left at halftime of the Stanford game… because it was Friday night and they had better things to do. The team needs them to stay when it matters.

I like the way you say it here much more. I agree that the team needs them, and I too would love to see them stay, (as a student, I never left a game early) but our student population suffers the same thing the entire region does given they are mostly from the Northeast, where the diehard football culture is lacking or tamped down by all that there is to do and see in a large megalopolis with a very diverse set of interests and options. These kids just don't have the same interest level as diehards, and many are experiencing "bigtime" football for the first time (along with college parties, bars, independence, self-reliance for studying and results) and that can lead to mixed emotions for engagement. I recall being envious of a free education, and study-table, and campus notoriety, and free Nike gear. It wasn't until I really got to see it up close and personal that I realized and respected the work that went into it (still a bit jealous of the free education). That colored my initial college sports engagement, and I am a fan.

 

[Pyle]

So much hate for the very reason Syracuse University exists!

I've got news for you, the football team is entirely made up of students. Students' $75,000 plus per year along with so much of what they give post graduation is what funded the Dome refurbishment. It's what built the IPF. They also make up the other teams that compete well in a P4 conference with high academic standards (basketball, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, cross country, softball, volleyball, etc.).

Without students, the university would actually not exist.

But you're right. They don't deserve to pay additional money for seats to see their team, full of their classmates, and decide for themselves when they come and go to those seats. Let me know when your annual contribution is over $75,000 or you represent the school in competition or rankings of any sort. I guess there is new language on the tickets that requires you show up before kickoff and not leave until the alma mater is sung (their alma mater)? I'm glad you've never been late arriving or left early.

You act like that $75000 is given to the athletic program. It's not. It also pays for the grass on the quad. The electricity in Crouse-Hinds hall, the campus police, their actual professors, etc. Who said they hate the students? Straw-man? And of course the university wouldn't exist without the students. However, the football program doesn't exist without the diehard locals and NIL contingent. Those students you are so quick to put on a pedestal wouldn't even have a program without the local fan base. You think we're some state school supported mostly by alumni? See SUNY Binghamton to see what it looks like when students but not a large local fan base shows up.

Also..." a large megalopolis with a very diverse set of interests and options " - is not and has never been a description for Syracuse unless you come from Apulia.

 

[capeorange]

You know, I once sat next to DC at a BET game at MSG. It was one of the games where GMac went off and we won an exciting game late and all the SU fans went nuts. DC and I had seats behind the basket.

When the game ended, the SU players all celebrated on the court, close to us. A bunch of SU fans ran out on the court to congratulate them and be idiots.

DC gave me and several other SU fans surrounding him a very very high five. He was/is a great SU fan and was genuinely excited.

He was wearing a really nice three piece suit. Light brown. Custom tailored. I am sure it was very expensive.

I mention this because in the euphoria of victory, DC was going down a line of SU fans who had lined up to get a high five from him. All was well until it was this one guy...

This was one of those guys who come to the game shirtless and painted their entire torso orange. I am not judging. Do whatever you need to do to make you happy.

But to complete the picture, he was overweight, very sweaty and appeared to be inebriated. Very inebriated.

He started to raise his hand to get a high five from Derrick but changed his mind late..

He lowered the hand that was about to get high fived, made direct eye contact with Coleman, smiled and said 'Come on Derrick!'. And opened his arms in the universal 'let's hug it out' gesture.

Derrick stopped to consider this offer carefully.

The world stopped for an instant. I watched DC's face closely. Surely he wouldn't do it, would he?

After maybe 3 or 4 seconds, he said 'oh, what the hell' and gave orange torso man a huge hug.

Then he pulled away from the guy and looked at his suit. It was covered in orange paint and while I am not an expert in suit cleaning, I am pretty sure it was well beyond repair.

Coleman said 'Oh '. Orange torso man said 'I'm sorry Derrick!'. Derrick looked at him for a second or two with a very angry expression on his face.

Was orange torso guy gonna get Cornelled?

No. A smile slowly came over his face, he said 'it's okay' and went on to celebrate with some players on the court.

This is a true story. Also, I did not hug the drunk orange torso man. Nor did he ask me too.

Drunk Orange Torso Man, if you are on the board, step up and tell your side of the story~

Great story Tom, thanks.
DC has always been one of my favorite players but I'm not happy with his recent public comments.
We need someone with his toughness again.

 

[NJCuse97]

You act like that $75000 is given to the athletic program. It's not. It also pays for the grass on the quad. The electricity in Crouse-Hinds hall, the campus police, their actual professors, etc. Who said they hate the students? Straw-man? And of course the university wouldn't exist without the students. However, the football program doesn't exist without the diehard locals and NIL contingent. Those students you are so quick to put on a pedestal wouldn't even have a program without the local fan base. You think we're some state school supported mostly by alumni? See SUNY Binghamton to see what it looks like when students but not a large local fan base shows up.

Also..." a large megalopolis with a very diverse set of interests and options " - is not and has never been a description for Syracuse unless you come from Apulia.

Look at the post I was responding to. Jcuse_44 said the students "don't deserve the space" they were given in the Dome (upper tier in the end zone mind you) in addition to several other similar comments. I take that as hate.

I am not remotely suggesting that the full amount of their tuition/room/board goes to football, or even the athletic department, but I think enough to say they "deserve the space". A portion of that money does go to budgets (including the AD) and endowment, where special projects such as the new roof, seats, an IPF, and the scholarships that go to 85 (now limitless) players come from (and the grass on the quad). It means more BECAUSE we're not a state school supported by the tax dollars of all state constituents. Others act like that quad should be given to those diehards every Friday/Saturday for parties but don't seem to accept that those paying for that grass want to have the places to study and then go to parties too (Crouse-Hinds Hall is an odd choice as it's pretty much an administrative office building for the Chancellor, so lets say the academic buildings that surround the quad like Link, Bowne, Shaffer, Carnegie Library).

I think you are wrong about the program's existence. It absolutely would exist and did exist for some 75 years before diehard locals and 135 before NIL contingent were remote factors in what it is today. Without it, we would probably have a program like Cornell, or Colgate, or the Ivy League Schools. Heck I could name any number of Northeast programs that continue to exist without those things you mention, including some of our peer schools and league brethren (BC, Wake, Duke, to name a few) and I have seen a lot of people here pine for the days when it wasn't about NIL. That said, TV money makes the football world go 'round, not local fans. SUNY Binghamton is actually another bad example as it IS a state school propped up by tax payer money that you used as an example of what SU isn't.

As for my megalopolis comment, I was referring to the student base (re-read if you must). That base comes mostly from the major population centers of the Northeast - NYC/NJ/eastern PA, Boston, DMV (the full breadth of which is the megalopolis I was referring to).

Northeast megalopolis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JRHEETER]

So much hate for the very reason Syracuse University exists!

I've got news for you, the football team is entirely made up of students. Students' $75,000 plus per year along with so much of what they give post graduation is what funded the Dome refurbishment. It's what built the IPF. They also make up the other teams that compete well in a P4 conference with high academic standards (basketball, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, cross country, softball, volleyball, etc.).

Without students, the university would actually not exist.

But you're right. They don't deserve to pay additional money for seats to see their team, full of their classmates, and decide for themselves when they come and go to those seats. Let me know when your annual contribution is over $75,000 or you represent the school in competition or rankings of any sort. I guess there is new language on the tickets that requires you show up before kickoff and not leave until the alma mater is sung (their alma mater)? I'm glad you've never been late arriving or left early.

I didn’t say the students don’t deserve to be there

But let’s face reality here, the students aren’t at that football game unless people such as me are buying season tickets, donating to the athletic department, donating to NIL to field a competitive team etc.

That 75k they pay is going for their ACADEMICS and doesn’t go to the football team. So the small amount they pay for seasons doesn’t equate out to much.

So yeah, it burns me that I lost my seats I had for years and donated money to have for years to watch students, in competitive games such as Stanford, not show up to them and then leave before halftime and leave my old seats completely empty.

I love when the students are there and IF they stayed the whole time I wouldn’t complain. Because as you say, the university doesn’t exist without the students.

We are all a symbiotic relationship.

University doesn’t exist without the students. The athletics department doesn’t exist without the university being there and the fans that are donating money to watch the team.

I also think when you reduce the amount of seats in the dome and then expand the student section by a significant amount it causes this tension. If they didn’t expand the student section, I wouldn’t have lost my seats.

Anyway, it’s not important really

Just keep winning

 

[NJCuse97]

I didn’t say the students don’t deserve to be there

But let’s face reality here, the students aren’t at that football game unless people such as me are buying season tickets, donating to the athletic department, donating to NIL to field a competitive team etc.

That 75k they pay is going for their ACADEMICS and doesn’t go to the football team. So the small amount they pay for seasons doesn’t equate out to much.

So yeah, it burns me that I lost my seats I had for years and donated money to have for years to watch students, in competitive games such as Stanford, not show up to them and then leave before halftime and leave my old seats completely empty.

I love when the students are there and IF they stayed the whole time I wouldn’t complain. Because as you say, the university doesn’t exist without the students.

We are all a symbiotic relationship.

University doesn’t exist without the students. The athletics department doesn’t exist without the university being there and the fans that are donating money to watch the team.

I also think when you reduce the amount of seats in the dome and then expand the student section by a significant amount it causes this tension. If they didn’t expand the student section, I wouldn’t have lost my seats.

Anyway, it’s not important really

Just keep winning

I didn't say you did say it.

I want to keep winning too. I only knew a winning program when I attended and want to see us reclaim the place we held then, (1992-1997). I appreciate everyone showing up to games, getting loud, and staying throughout. I am not letting the students off the hook here, I just took issue with the statement that they 'didn't deserve seats' (again, not your statement).

I think your point about the simultaneous reduction in capacity and the expansion of the student section is legitimate and exacerbated by poor attendance and poor "retention" of the student population. That said, you just can't dictate how people should spend their money (if they aren't staying, I too say they are wasting it) no matter how much it frustrates. Also keep in mind we are talking about 18-22 year-olds, and I'm sure most of us have experienced that you can't tell them ANYTHING.

Upon further looking into it, I found that the total cost of attendance at SU is estimated at over $91,000 per year for undergrads living on campus. The tuition DEFINITLY includes an athletics fee, but it is hidden and because SU is a private school, they don't report these numbers (but ironically Newhouse received a grant to track them). The only real analysis I have been able to find is an article from 2020 about this fee and the surprise/frustration of students who don't want to pay for athletics and don't really know they are, (I coincidentally made reference to this in an earlier post). That fee can be incorporated into student loans, and when amortized over the period of the loan, can add up to a substantial amount being paid down over years, (the article suggests the JMU student they highlight might pay $10,000 in accrued interest on athletics fees over the life of the loan).

College students may pay thousands in athletic fees and not know it

NBC News found that college students are paying a rising cost, sometimes thousands of dollars, to support athletic programs — fees that don't always appear on their tuition bills.

www.nbcnews.com

The article's data doesn't include SU, but suggests that for a school of our size and stature/budget, about 5%-10% of our athletic budget is covered by the student athletics fee. To look at it another way, a fair guess would be $1,000 a year per student, (some are as high as $2500 a year and 50% of the athletic budget). I will estimate our budget at $85 million and our enrollment at 22,000. That is $22 million a year based on fee per student and $4.25 million - $8.5 million based on % of budget. Again, this is all guesswork given that SU doesn't report. That is not nothing.

Also keep in mind that the University, and not the AD covers the cost of scholarships to athletes typically, so that is above and beyond the AD budget. Game attendance plays a role too as FBS requires an average attendance of 15k. If the school is not able to achieve that through normal sales, they cover it with the student fee (subsidized cost of student tickets). I assume this can also be used to "manufacture" sell outs.

Undergraduate Costs

Syracuse University's cost of attendance includes tuition, housing and meal costs, health insurance, and other direct and indirect expenses.

www.syracuse.edu

2024-25 Cost of Attendance​

Undergraduate Students (Living On Campus)​

Tuition - $63,710
Housing & food (average) - $19,188
Miscellaneous fees* - $ 1,818
Books, course materials, supplies, and equipment - $1,753
Transportation - $796
Personal expenses - $1,228
Loan fees (if applicable) - $67

Total Cost of Attendance - $88,560​

Health insurance** - $2,474

Total Cost of Attendance (with health insurance) - $91,034​

*The residential internet, cable access, and service fee is a mandatory fee for all who sign a Syracuse University housing contract.
**This mandatory fee may be waived if the student has adequate private health insurance.

 

[Pyle]

I take that as hate.

Well it's not. Hate is what is happening in Israel/Iran/Lebanon. Somebody mentioned the students might have too big of a footprint in the dome and you went to extremes.

AS for the other comment, I chose Crouse0-Hinds because it IS NOT an academic building and is administrative. Who do you think pays all those salaries? A fraction of their tuition goes to sports. Couple grand a year I think. The rest of the money comes from ticket sales, merch sales, concessions, parking, and massive ESPN TV deals that art students don't have a damn thing to do with.

And stop with the straw man arguments so your replies look longer. I never said the quad should be given up for two days a week for parties. Where the heck do you get that?

Would the program exiost? Yeah, you misunderstood the part about SUNY, yes it is a state schools but it's not like Michigan State or Penn State. We don't have 1 really big campus and a few small ones. We have 4 university centers however SUNY Binghamton is still a Div1 school and the only people who go to games are students, a few locals, and a few alum. 45k? Don't think so. That's what you're advocating for by saying this program isn't propped up by the local fan base. It is. We WOULD be Colgate or Cornell without it. You want that fine but we don't and neither does the university or they wouldn't have invested as much as they did.

As for the megapolis comment. Either you're proving that our alumni base has too many options as adults to come back for games, in which case it's the locals who support the program, or you were trying to say the student have too many options now to stay at a game which is BS because we are 3 hours away from your megapolis.

The real reason they moved the students is about money, nothing else. They used to sit in prime real estate. Now they sit in the cheapest seats in the dome. The university wanted to get the extra cash from the donations required to sit in their old section. That's it. It's about money, not your students, despite what the administration is telling you. Our program has been about money for the last 25 years, as have all of them since college football exploded with massive TV deals.

Saying we existed before is a really bad argument. The landscape has completely changed, and if you want to keep a P5 program at Syracuse, you need ALOT of local support. Without it we become another UCONN oir UMASS.

 

[Pyle]

I didn't say you did say it.

I want to keep winning too. I only knew a winning program when I attended and want to see us reclaim the place we held then, (1992-1997). I appreciate everyone showing up to games, getting loud, and staying throughout. I am not letting the students off the hook here, I just took issue with the statement that they 'didn't deserve seats' (again, not your statement).

I think your point about the simultaneous reduction in capacity and the expansion of the student section is legitimate and exacerbated by poor attendance and poor "retention" of the student population. That said, you just can't dictate how people should spend their money (if they aren't staying, I too say they are wasting it) no matter how much it frustrates. Also keep in mind we are talking about 18-22 year-olds, and I'm sure most of us have experienced that you can't tell them ANYTHING.

Upon further looking into it, I found that the total cost of attendance at SU is estimated at over $91,000 per year for undergrads living on campus. The tuition DEFINITLY includes an athletics fee, but it is hidden and because SU is a private school, they don't report these numbers (but ironically Newhouse received a grant to track them). The only real analysis I have been able to find is an article from 2020 about this fee and the surprise/frustration of students who don't want to pay for athletics and don't really know they are, (I coincidentally made reference to this in an earlier post). That fee can be incorporated into student loans, and when amortized over the period of the loan, can add up to a substantial amount being paid down over years, (the article suggests the JMU student they highlight might pay $10,000 in accrued interest on athletics fees over the life of the loan).

College students may pay thousands in athletic fees and not know it

NBC News found that college students are paying a rising cost, sometimes thousands of dollars, to support athletic programs — fees that don't always appear on their tuition bills.

www.nbcnews.com

The article's data doesn't include SU, but suggests that for a school of our size and stature/budget, about 5%-10% of our athletic budget is covered by the student athletics fee. To look at it another way, a fair guess would be $1,000 a year per student, (some are as high as $2500 a year and 50% of the athletic budget). I will estimate our budget at $85 million and our enrollment at 22,000. That is $22 million a year based on fee per student and $4.25 million - $8.5 million based on % of budget. Again, this is all guesswork given that SU doesn't report. That is not nothing.

Also keep in mind that the University, and not the AD covers the cost of scholarships to athletes typically, so that is above and beyond the AD budget. Game attendance plays a role too as FBS requires an average attendance of 15k. If the school is not able to achieve that through normal sales, they cover it with the student fee (subsidized cost of student tickets). I assume this can also be used to "manufacture" sell outs.

Undergraduate Costs

Syracuse University's cost of attendance includes tuition, housing and meal costs, health insurance, and other direct and indirect expenses.

www.syracuse.edu

2024-25 Cost of Attendance​

Undergraduate Students (Living On Campus)​

Tuition - $63,710
Housing & food (average) - $19,188
Miscellaneous fees* - $ 1,818
Books, course materials, supplies, and equipment - $1,753
Transportation - $796
Personal expenses - $1,228
Loan fees (if applicable) - $67

Total Cost of Attendance - $88,560​

Health insurance** - $2,474

Total Cost of Attendance (with health insurance) - $91,034​

*The residential internet, cable access, and service fee is a mandatory fee for all who sign a Syracuse University housing contract.
**This mandatory fee may be waived if the student has adequate private health insurance

In March 2020, NBC News reported that Syracuse University students paid a $2,340 fee each yearto fund the school's sports teams. This fee was not for using the gym or funding student clubs and activities.

 

[Jcuse_44]

So much hate for the very reason Syracuse University exists!

I've got news for you, the football team is entirely made up of students. Students' $75,000 plus per year along with so much of what they give post graduation is what funded the Dome refurbishment. It's what built the IPF. They also make up the other teams that compete well in a P4 conference with high academic standards (basketball, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, cross country, softball, volleyball, etc.).

Without students, the university would actually not exist.

But you're right. They don't deserve to pay additional money for seats to see their team, full of their classmates, and decide for themselves when they come and go to those seats. Let me know when your annual contribution is over $75,000 or you represent the school in competition or rankings of any sort. I guess there is new language on the tickets that requires you show up before kickoff and not leave until the alma mater is sung (their alma mater)? I'm glad you've never been late arriving or left early.

You are missing the point bro. We WANT them to fill the seats. We NEED them to. They never freaking do.

 

[Jcuse_44]

Nope.

They put out a fresh set for the Holy Cross game. I was there early.

They didn't. I was literally there an hour before kickoff.

 

[Jcuse_44]

So much hate for the very reason Syracuse University exists!

I've got news for you, the football team is entirely made up of students. Students' $75,000 plus per year along with so much of what they give post graduation is what funded the Dome refurbishment. It's what built the IPF. They also make up the other teams that compete well in a P4 conference with high academic standards (basketball, lacrosse, soccer, field hockey, cross country, softball, volleyball, etc.).

Without students, the university would actually not exist.

But you're right. They don't deserve to pay additional money for seats to see their team, full of their classmates, and decide for themselves when they come and go to those seats. Let me know when your annual contribution is over $75,000 or you represent the school in competition or rankings of any sort. I guess there is new language on the tickets that requires you show up before kickoff and not leave until the alma mater is sung (their alma mater)? I'm glad you've never been late arriving or left early.

I live paycheck to paycheck like most of this Country. I donate to the school and im in no shape to actually do it. I do it for the players and the program. Ive been a season ticket holder since 1995 when I was legally able to drive myself to The Dome. I moved to Boston for 3 years during the GROB years and drove home for every single game, as well as attended away games to support the team. Please though, tell me what more I should be doing for the program. All we need the students to do is show up to the damn games.

 

[sutomcat]

They didn't. I was literally there an hour before kickoff.

They did. I was there 90 minutes before kickoff.

 

[Jcuse_44]

They did. I was there 90 minutes before kickoff.

That is the first section. Im talking about the 300 level. I probably have time stamped pictures of the same pom poms being in those seats for 3 games now up top.

 

[sutomcat]

That is the first section. Im talking about the 300 level. I probably have time stamped pictures of the same pom poms being in those seats for 3 games now up top.

They were in the 300 level student sections as well. I saw them.

And no, the students that went to the earlier home games did not neatly put their pom poms back on their seats.

If you went to the games and looked at the 300 level sections where the students sit late in the second half of the earlier games, you would know this. The stands were empty. No students. No pom poms.

Not a big deal. I won't criticize the students for getting to their seats late or leaving early. Or taking their pom poms with them.

Glad we have really good participation from the student body. They are doing a great job.

 

[NJCuse97]

Well it's not. Hate is what is happening in Israel/Iran/Lebanon. Somebody mentioned the students might have too big of a footprint in the dome and you went to extremes.

AS for the other comment, I chose Crouse0-Hinds because it IS NOT an academic building and is administrative. Who do you think pays all those salaries? A fraction of their tuition goes to sports. Couple grand a year I think. The rest of the money comes from ticket sales, merch sales, concessions, parking, and massive ESPN TV deals that art students don't have a damn thing to do with.

And stop with the straw man arguments so your replies look longer. I never said the quad should be given up for two days a week for parties. Where the heck do you get that?

Would the program exiost? Yeah, you misunderstood the part about SUNY, yes it is a state schools but it's not like Michigan State or Penn State. We don't have 1 really big campus and a few small ones. We have 4 university centers however SUNY Binghamton is still a Div1 school and the only people who go to games are students, a few locals, and a few alum. 45k? Don't think so. That's what you're advocating for by saying this program isn't propped up by the local fan base. It is. We WOULD be Colgate or Cornell without it. You want that fine but we don't and neither does the university or they wouldn't have invested as much as they did.

As for the megapolis comment. Either you're proving that our alumni base has too many options as adults to come back for games, in which case it's the locals who support the program, or you were trying to say the student have too many options now to stay at a game which is BS because we are 3 hours away from your megapolis.

The real reason they moved the students is about money, nothing else. They used to sit in prime real estate. Now they sit in the cheapest seats in the dome. The university wanted to get the extra cash from the donations required to sit in their old section. That's it. It's about money, not your students, despite what the administration is telling you. Our program has been about money for the last 25 years, as have all of them since college football exploded with massive TV deals.

Saying we existed before is a really bad argument. The landscape has completely changed, and if you want to keep a P5 program at Syracuse, you need ALOT of local support. Without it we become another UCONN oir UMASS.

I guess here's another long one.

Somebody said they didn't deserve the space, not that they have too much. That is the entirety of the cause for everything that followed and I think you are the one going to extremes. If I said I hate cauliflower, I am not in anyway comparing that to what is happening in the Middle East. Lets keep this within the confines of a football message board.

Again, you never said give the quad over, but it has been said. Multiple times. I am not sure why you are so focused on what you said, especially since I was not initially responding to you in the first place. The only reason I brought it up is again, because I was trying to explain that the students do indeed "deserve" a seat at the Dome given all they contribute to the betterment of the entire campus, including the athletic department and football team, and taking into it, the reality that many of them may be doing so involuntarily and may not want to incur that cost to attend SU and be overrun by outside parties that do (kinda like me saying I should have the right to use your backyard on weekends for my parties, but you don't deserve to be invited. Your mortgage pays for the house too and taxes go to paying for the police, and you cover all the utilities too, but the back yard is fair game because I brought my own beer).

I am saying that the alumni have lots of options and STILL support the school despite that, and the majority of students come from that same environment (the megalopolis) where all the options afforded them before they got to SU likely contributes to a student population that just isn't that into college football, (how many times has this been said on the recruiting page?) but as you can discern from "my straw man" (it's not a straw man as I am only saying that students pay for athletics beyond ticket sales which was in response to you saying the full cost of tuition does not go to the AD - your straw man argument in fact) they still cover the cost of the AD anywhere from 10% t0 25% of the total budget. You're right to say the university seems to want a big time program, and I am for it and glad it is investing the money in it... the students' money. It really doesn't matter what the local fanbase wants, in large part because we both agree that in the moneymaking athletics world, its the TV dollars that matter. The eyes that we claim drive our value so much are the ones in the megalopolis where the students and alumni are, so you are right to say Syracuse isn't in the megalopolis, but in your argument, you are weakening the value of the local fanbase. BTW they want to be in that population or they would not have invested so much in remote academic facilities in NYC and Washington DC (like so many other schools).

If we were a state school, I assume we'd be more like SUNY Albany or SUNY Buffalo. Not sure why you chose Binghamton except that it better reinforces your argument, but then you again mention other state schools propped up by state taxes in UMass and UConn that better fit the mold of single main campus. Both of those schools suffer from the same student apathy, and they do little to correct that because they don't need to (they don't rely on the popularity of the AD to bolster enrollment or income). Both have only recently started to invest in their programs and UConn in particular (2000) because of it's state budget problems. That is likely something that currently holds them back from inclusion in the Big12 (where the TV money, and not local support would benefit their budget issues).

Football history at SU is that of a rich oil baron investing in SU as a tax shelter and anti-trust defense (Archbold was CEO of Standard Oil until it was trust busted. His involvement and contributions to the university were in part because he wanted to give back for all he had taken, similar to the tobacco Duke family from NJ that founded Duke University in NC to give back to the poor sharecroppers they built their fortunes on). That is why he built the largest concrete stadium in 1907, and the lack of investment is why it stood until 1978, so again, there was little investment in football for the majority of the program's history. That said, the program is 135 years old at the D1 level. As I said, it existed before.

 

[NJCuse97]

In March 2020, NBC News reported that Syracuse University students paid a $2,340 fee each yearto fund the school's sports teams. This fee was not for using the gym or funding student clubs and activities.

OK thank you. This is more than twice what my "straw man" assumes, so the 25% funding is more like 50% funding, but it's the local fanbase that props it up.

Just so we're clear, I am on the side of a great gameday experience in the mold of the best that college football has to offer. I don't have a problem with a student fee helping fund the AD and didn't mind when I was paying it as a student. Of course I would prefer them to be loud and proud the whole game, but don't take that and everything else the tuition funded university offers and suggest (not that you did) that those who fund 50% of the AD budget through tuition payments don't deserve a seat in the Dome their tuition has been refurbishing (that roof money didn't come from the AD and the state only covered about 20% or the second phase - the seats). They are the VIPs who pay the bills including those of the AD, whether they show up on time or not. IIRC the AD leases time in the Dome, so they do not see the revenue driven by ticket sales. I assume the ticket sales impact the lease rates, but the Dome is a separate entity from the AD.

And yes, money rules it all, and yes they were moved to make it easier for others to pay more for seats elsewhere.

 

[NJCuse97]

You are missing the point bro. We WANT them to fill the seats. We NEED them to. They never freaking do.

That point is not lost on me. I want that too. They bought those seats, so I have a hard time with someone saying they don't deserve them. Because they are student seats, (cost less, because they are subsidized by the student fee) I don't think they are allowed to resell them, so that isn't really an option. The only option would be to eliminate the student fee and the student tickets and sell them on the open market, but that risks not being able to manipulate ticket sales, and it risks a revenue stream (the fee) for the AD that they won't give up.

 

[NJCuse97]

I live paycheck to paycheck like most of this Country. I donate to the school and im in no shape to actually do it. I do it for the players and the program. Ive been a season ticket holder since 1995 when I was legally able to drive myself to The Dome. I moved to Boston for 3 years during the GROB years and drove home for every single game, as well as attended away games to support the team. Please though, tell me what more I should be doing for the program. All we need the students to do is show up to the damn games.

I wouldn't tell you how to spend your money, but again, I agree that we want the students to show up. That said, they paid for the seats via tickets AND via the student fee, so now we are telling them how to spend their money and in the process telling them they don't deserve it. That's where this argument gets stuck for me.