The 2

[SWC75]

Look
Look up Matt Roe's first year.

GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
ROE, Matt..... 13-0 68 5.2 12-35 .343 2-10 .200 3-3 1.000 5 6 11 0.8 7 0 5 1 0 2 29 2.2 33

Of course Roe was not a red-shirt freshman.

Andy Rautins might be a good one to look at, too.
GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
20-0 159 8.0 20-53 .377 15-46 .326 3-6 .500 5 12 17 0.9 23 0 13 4 2 6 58 2.9

Andy got a lot of criticism early in his career, (remember THE OFFICIAL ANDY RAUTINS IS USELESS THREAD?). But he won everyone
over eventually.

 

[RF2044]

GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
ROE, Matt..... 13-0 68 5.2 12-35 .343 2-10 .200 3-3 1.000 5 6 11 0.8 7 0 5 1 0 2 29 2.2 33

Of course Roe was not a red-shirt freshman.

Andy Rautins might be a good one to look at, too.
GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA Pct Off Def Tot Avg PF FO A TO Blk Stl Pts Avg
20-0 159 8.0 20-53 .377 15-46 .326 3-6 .500 5 12 17 0.9 23 0 13 4 2 6 58 2.9

Andy got a lot of criticism early in his career, (remember THE OFFICIAL ANDY RAUTINS IS USELESS THREAD?). But he won everyone
over eventually.

I remember that thread. Not only did that prove to be one of the most asinine threads in board history, it was also the thread that proved what an imbecile jambanjunki was. And there were several other posters who sided with him--oops.

Hilarious how amazingly stupid and biased that thread was in retrospect.

 

[Gabjon]

The "2" is a guard position. Is BJ a good enough ball-handler to play guard?

Yes

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[rrlbees]

The "2" is a guard position. Is BJ a good enough ball-handler to play guard?

Not enough info.


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[realorange]

Agree with Bees. It's too early to judge a high school player on the college level. He may be good enough, but the other key is his decision making. Only game experience will give him a lot of what he needs.

 

[Gabjon]

Agree with Bees. It's too early to judge a high school player on the college level. He may be good enough, but the other key is his decision making. Only game experience will give him a lot of what he needs.

The question was is his ball handling good enough to play the 2...the answer is yes...will there be a learning curve for a 17yr old freshmen sure but he can handle the ball and he can shoot the ball!

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[Trueblue25]

G's working in a new offense, granted he's practiced with it for a year. He deserves a little more time before we judge him.

Cooneys still questionable.

Patterson looks like he needs a year or 2 before seeing significant minutes.

Bj looked great.

 

[RF2044]

Agree with Bees. It's too early to judge a high school player on the college level. He may be good enough, but the other key is his decision making. Only game experience will give him a lot of what he needs.

Not to mention, offense is only one side of the ball. Can he hold up defensively [the athletic tools suggest so, at least eventually].

Also, is he strong enough to handle the physical rigors of college ball as a true frosh?

 

[Gabjon]

Not to mention, offense is only one side of the ball. Can he hold up defensively [the athletic tools suggest so, at least eventually].

Also, is he strong enough to handle the physical rigors of college ball as a true frosh?

15mins a game...yes I don't think anyone is expecting more than that

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[pfister1]

The only things we really learned about the 2 position from the Canada trip is (1) that no one has the position locked up and (2) BJ looked good enough to get continued consideration for minutes and can't be put on the shelf because no one has the position locked up.

 

[RF2044]

15mins a game...yes I don't think anyone is expecting more than that

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Those who are clamoring for BJ to start expect more than 15 minutes per game.

Count me amongst the people who were pretty impressed with every aspect that Cooney showed last year, with the lone exception of consistent outside shooting. I honestly believe that he was better than anyone could have expected in just about every aspect of the game except for the one that most people expected him to deliver--three point marksmanship. I kind of expect him to take it up a notch and shoot a reasonable percentage from three this year. Just my gut--but I'd be surprised if he doesn't deliver ~35% from trifecta, in addition to the solid defense and ability to attack the rim.

Gbinije--I'm still not sure what he's capable of, even after the four games. Would like to see him play alongside Ennis instead of as the backup point [which isn't natural for his game]. Not sure what he can do offensively, but he definitely bring tantilizing size to the top of the zone.

I love BJ's potential. Love it. I'm going on record as stating that I think that down the road, BJ might emerge as one of the top 2 players in this class--a big statement, considering that I'm bully on Roberson's capabilities. I think that BJ might be a year or two away from fully actualizing his potential. By then, he'll be up to par in terms of his physical maturity. Once his physique catches up to his skill level, the sky's the limit. But those expecting him to displace Cooney / Gbinije this year might be setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[Cusefan0307]

4 games is a small sample size. Cooney played decent after he hit a few shots against McGill. To be honest I was underwhelmed by Gbinije. He just doesn't seem like an aggressive offensive player. Cooney at least stayed aggressive. I think he can shoot 34 to 38 from three this year. That's acceptable for a sophomore. Give me around 10 ppg, don't turn the ball over, and play good defense he will start. Cooney is great at the top of the zone, just like bt and mcw were.

Bj is probably the best scorer of the 2's, but he needs to gain weight and is inexperienced. He will be a great player here and he will play this year just because he can make shots. This is JB we are talking about, no way BJ starts this year, but he will play.

I don't think Patterson gets much run.

That said. My 2 guard depth chart is:

Cooney
BJ
G
Buss

 

[moqui]

Mike g will be the 2 when the season starts.

we are all free to state our opinions, but you are arguing against all available evidence

Cooney has the most experience, is the best defender at the position, started all 4 games and logged the most minutes of the 2G candidates.

Things can change, of course, but the facts as we know them are stacked up against you.

 

[orangefan13]

In 87 minutes Gbinije had 14 points.
That means he averaged something like 3.5 points in 22 mpg this far. That is far far far from starting sg material, even further then Cooney.

Have Gbinije and Cooney earned over 15 mpg yet??? I say no.
That being said If Gbinije spells Ennis for 8, and Cooney gets 15, that leaves Gbinije another 8 averaging around 22 mpg of the 2guards minutes. We can round up to 25 to be nice.
BJ and Ron have just as much chance to play themselves into a 2g role.

I wrote in the other threads, if roberson is as good as advertized we might be able to go with grant or roberson at the two on D swapping with fair on offense. The way JB was playing CJ uptop on the offensive end it wouldn't surprise me. If there is a way to create a mismatch at the 2 JB is going to consider it thats how you win games deep in the tournament.
It wouldn't be the first time a SF has played offense uptop for Cuse. Dnic and Joseph did it for 85% of the time they were on the floor as jr/seniors.

 

[cusetown1]

we are all free to state our opinions, but you are arguing against all available evidence

Cooney has the most experience, is the best defender at the position, started all 4 games and logged the most minutes of the 2G candidates.

Things can change, of course, but the facts as we know them are stacked up against you.

Sorry bro that's just the way it is.

 

[AlaskaSU]

What I would like to see from the 2 position:
good D with size, agility and smarts,
on O, 33% from 3, 45% overall.
If Cooney can give us that in OCC, he will have earned starting in conf. in my book. I can imagine him possibly getting to 33%, but not 45% from the floor. I'm enthusiastic about his drives but not so much on his J. This may sound odd, but Cooney is more of an athlete than a basketball player. He has good hops, reflexes, can find seams, etc. but his jump shot is erratic.

 

[rrlbees]

The question was is his ball handling good enough to play the 2...the answer is yes...will there be a learning curve for a 17yr old freshmen sure but he can handle the ball and he can shoot the ball!

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What evidence are you using to make that opinion?


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[rrlbees]

It wouldn't be the first time a SF has played offense uptop for Cuse. Dnic and Joseph did it for 85% of the time they were on the floor as jr/seniors.

That's because in many of our sets, the 2 and the 3 are the same.



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[sutomcat]

Not enough info.


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Agree with this. I believe he played forward on defense exclusively when he was on the court in the Canada games. He also played a lot of his minutes in 'garbage time' when the games had been decided and the other team was perhaps not playing their best defense/playing their best players.

This is not a knock on BJ, who looked very promising. Just saying you have to take a grain of salt looking at his shooting numbers, and he hasn't shown he has the ability to play at the top of the 2-3 zone yet either.

Based on what I saw in Canada, Trevor will be the starter at the 2. I think JB is grooming Silent G to be the top backup at both guard spots.

BJ's best shot at playing time is if Trevor and Silent G are unable to hit open jumpers for extended periods. In that situation, I could see JB giving BJ some playing time, sacrificing some defense and ballhandling for offense.

If BJ can consistently hit 3 point shots, he could earn some regular playing time even as a trosh frosh. Especially if TC and Silent G struggle from the outside.

 

[Gabjon]

What evidence are you using to make that opinion?


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I've seen him dribble he has a better handle than Patterson. He is a guard.

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[reedny]

Those stats are wrong for the Canada games according to the SU site. He was 7-21 from 3. Not that it matters anyways.

2-7
3-4
2-8
0-2
_____
7-21


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Hmm. Do you have a link? I'd be interested to know why Syracuse.com's numbers are incorrect. Because they definitely have him at 28% for the canadian trip ... but your (SU's) numbers have him at 33%.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'd love to see what Cooney's percentages were after his poor start. And are we seriously deciding who is deserving and who should show more by a game in August? August? Think about that.

Shhhhhh....

 

[reedny]

Look
Look up Matt Roe's first year.

If that was 86-87, it looks like he shot 34%. http://suathletics.syr.edu/sports/2006/6/29/mbbstats8687.aspx?id=3082#TEAM.IND

The next year he shot 42%. http://suathletics.syr.edu/sports/2008/7/10/1987-88Final.aspx?id=5601

And in 88-89, he shot 47% from deep, an SU record. http://suathletics.syr.edu/sports/2006/6/29/mbbstats8687.aspx?id=3082#TEAM.IND

Are you comparing TC to Mat Roe? Or Andy Rautins? Or Janulis? I understand that Trevor's just starting his sophomore year, but I doubt that, at .267 from 3 in his first year playing, he's in line to be competitive with ace shooters of the past.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Cooney was 7-21 in 4 games in Canada from 3. He shot 27 percent last year. I'm not even sure we are debating this topic as Boeheim pretty much said that Cooney will start at the 2 this year. Gbinije will "backup" 3 spots. (1,2,3) My guess is we see BJ at guard as much as we saw Southerland at guard last year.
Cooney is just a victim of our expectations. He hasn't even had a shot to prove himself as a starter. After the first half against Mcgill he looked a lot better in the rest of his time. He did hit some big shots down the stretch against Carleton and he plays defense. That is why he will play. Gbinije did not even look to score. If hes not looking to score that just clogs the middle more. Cooney at least has to be guarded, and he has shown he can take the ball to the basket. My opinion is Cooney ends up being a really really good player for us by the time he graduates. Until then it seems like hes replaced Brandon Triche as this boards whipping boy.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Agree with this. I believe he played forward on defense exclusively when he was on the court in the Canada games. He also played a lot of his minutes in 'garbage time' when the games had been decided and the other team was perhaps not playing their best defense/playing their best players.

This is not a knock on BJ, who looked very promising. Just saying you have to take a grain of salt looking at his shooting numbers, and he hasn't shown he has the ability to play at the top of the 2-3 zone yet either.

Based on what I saw in Canada, Trevor will be the starter at the 2. I think JB is grooming Silent G to be the top backup at both guard spots.

BJ's best shot at playing time is if Trevor and Silent G are unable to hit open jumpers for extended periods. In that situation, I could see JB giving BJ some playing time, sacrificing some defense and ballhandling for offense.

If BJ can consistently hit 3 point shots, he could earn some regular playing time even as a trosh frosh. Especially if TC and Silent G struggle from the outside.

It does seem like a knock on BJ when you suggest to take his good performance with a grain of salt. The numbers suggest BJ did well in an unfamiliar environment. He handled pressure well. That's a big question for a young player.
This is a big plus when compared to Cooney. Unfortunately, Cooney is starting to consistently shrink as the lights get brighter, that's a difficult trait for JB to have to deal with come crunch time.
For instance, the start of last year, Cooneys first, he had a poor start. He slowly got better in OOC and then BE started. Cooney did poorly. Many point to his GTown game but he did his damage in the first half and was never heard from again as the game tightened up. He looked completely lost at the end of the Michigan game.

Even in the small sample size in Canada it looks like every time the lights brightened Cooney shrinks. The lights go on in the first game and Cooney comes out with an 0 for whatever start. Then he is able to adjust and finish the two easy games at 5-11 from deep. Then the hard game comes and he goes 2 for 8...same old.

Yes, I can see Cooney starting pretty much regardless of what else happens, much in the same way that I see Rak starting at the 4. JB is going to reward the veterans who have put in their time. But the question is going to be who finishes.

Some people take to the bright lights quicker than others. Who do you want in at the end of the close Duke game, a sophomore Nichols or a frosh GMac?