The 2

[IthacaMatt]

D Schayes, R Bouie, C McRae, R Seikaly, A Hawkins, O Hill, E Thomas, D Coleman played the 5 one year, AO, R Jackson

OK, let's look at your list. Danny Schayes was not a great player. He started one year and we went to the NIT, I believe. The fact that he had a long pro career doesn't make his SU career any better than it was.

Conrad McRae was a physical specimen, but in my opinion he never really put it together at SU. Again, I would not call him a "great" player. I don't think he was ever All Big East.

Otis Hill was not a great player. Loved him, but he was a complimentary guy. A very good complimentary guy when he was next to John Wallace, but not so great on his own.

Seikaly, Bouie and Thomas I will give you, although it took Etan (like Seikaly) until his junior year to be a really good player. I would also add in Arinze and Rick Jackson. That's five guys.

Coleman doesn't count. He was a forward, and played out of position for us his senior year.

You can look at any other position on the floor, and I can guarantee you there are more than five All-League caliber players that we have had at the position over the same period of time.

 

[AlaskaSU]

OK, let's look at your list. Danny Schayes was not a great player. He started one year and we went to the NIT, I believe. The fact that he had a long pro career doesn't make his SU career any better than it was.

Conrad McRae was a physical specimen, but in my opinion he never really put it together at SU. Again, I would not call him a "great" player. I don't think he was ever All Big East.

Otis Hill was not a great player. Loved him, but he was a complimentary guy. A very good complimentary guy when he was next to John Wallace, but not so great on his own.

Seikaly, Bouie and Thomas I will give you, although it took Etan (like Seikaly) until his junior year to be a really good player. I would also add in Arinze and Rick Jackson. That's five guys.

Coleman doesn't count. He was a forward, and played out of position for us his senior year.

You can look at any other position on the floor, and I can guarantee you there are more than five All-League caliber players that we have had at the position over the same period of time.

Re Otis Hill, tell that to Mississippi St.

 

[KevMonstah]

Centers are going to come across as weak relative to the rest of the positions because SU has historically not been a school that focuses on low post offense, and even moreso, on defense, the center position is given the task of challenging the shooter at the FT line, which takes him out of position for rebounds and maybe blocks too. It does not help that some of the names at that position have included Andre Hawkins, Dave Siock, Elvir Ovcina, Craig Forth, JB Reafsnyder, etc. I maintain that if they'd put any effort into a low post offense when Fab was here, he'd have averaged more than the 7 pts he got on putbacks/alley-oops. But, moving on ...

BJ is going to find it tough to get minutes I think (with an assumption here that Roberson is eligible*). Just looking at the roster, you clearly can't get Fair or Grant off the court for much time, and you still have to rotate 3 guys between the PF/C positions, so even Roberson will have difficulty finding time. So that puts BJ at a guard spot, and then you're looking at five guards who'd get PT, and I don't see it. Put it this way, when SU's rotation was Dion-Brandon-Scoop, MCW as a McDonalds AA could not get any time, and his guard skills were probably better than BJ's are. If you're looking at him as a strictly as potential instant offense off the bench, and maybe then for five mins a game tops, he might play. Might. But if you're looking to him to play mins as a ballhandler and a guy who can produce in time (call him a backcourt version of last year's Jerami Grant), it's not going to happen.

FWIW, I like him as a future player, just not this year. And I hope that JB does not squander a year of eligibility for him where he gets maybe 100, 120 minutes total PT. If something unforeseen happens, say like when both Rautins and Devendorf tore their ACLs, and he has to play, ok, but if his gamelog is going to be full of DNP, 2 mins, 1 min, ie, walkon time, please save him for the future.

* - note if Roberson cannot play, then BJ would likely see much more opportunity at the 3, and all questions about him playing or not can be disregarded.

Kev

 

[OttoinGrotto]

With the approach of starting a freshman big guy who is not any good yet being an ongoing thing since Fab Melo's freshman year, we've been playing 4 on 5 to start games for awhile.

I don't often question Boeheim's tactics, but that one I don't really get. If promises of starting from day 1 are made to lock these guys up, then fine. Otherwise, I don't see the purpose.

I think he likes starting two bigs because it means the opposing team doesn't get to see the true nature of how the zone operates at the beginning of the game. Also, in theory that means he has a less mobile guy on the wing, which invites teams to start chucking up 3s right from the start. I think it's all intentional, and gives the added benefit of dangling a carrot to prized big man recruits.

 

[IthacaMatt]

BJ is going to find it tough to get minutes I think (with an assumption here that Roberson is eligible*). Just looking at the roster, you clearly can't get Fair or Grant off the court for much time, and you still have to rotate 3 guys between the PF/C positions, so even Roberson will have difficulty finding time. So that puts BJ at a guard spot, and then you're looking at five guards who'd get PT, and I don't see it. Put it this way, when SU's rotation was Dion-Brandon-Scoop, MCW as a McDonalds AA could not get any time, and his guard skills were probably better than BJ's are. If you're looking at him as a strictly as potential instant offense off the bench, and maybe then for five mins a game tops, he might play. Might. But if you're looking to him to play mins as a ballhandler and a guy who can produce in time (call him a backcourt version of last year's Jerami Grant), it's not going to happen.

* - note if Roberson cannot play, then BJ would likely see much more opportunity at the 3, and all questions about him playing or not can be disregarded.

Kev

If Silent G or Patterson don't start killing it from 3, BJ is going to make the rotation. It's that simple.

 

[orangefan13]

Gbinije is 6'7, I see alot of MCW in him the occasional pullup 3 from uptop(not in the corners) with superior speed,size, and ball handling for a guard. What he doesn't have that MCW learned was a pullup or floater in the lane. MCW's was 6'5, Gbinije is atleast a inch taller. Hes got to learn to get into the lane and get some shots up with his handle, speed, and size. I don't care if he gets called a ball hog or not.

Cooney mike and triche averaged 29.9 ppg last year
I don't see Ennis Cooney and Gbinije meeting anywhere near that. Even if Ennis hits around 10, both Cooney and Gbinije hitting 10 is very low odds. I think Ennis will be around 10 out of necessity, Cooney just under 7 and Gbinije just under 6 until he makes shots in the mid-high post.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For 2 guys who couldn't shoot last year Brandon and Mike combined for about 25 PPG and about 12 Assists. Thats's about 60 to 65 percent of our offense last year that they accounted for. I don't think our backcourt can do that this year, but i do think the frontcourt contributes more than they did last year.

 

[tee1222]

You mean guys like Brandon Triche, Dion Waiters, Andy Rautins, Eric Devendorf and on and on?

One more.

 

[tbonezone]

sorry but after watching every game last year i'm not entirely sold on the cooney the great defender notion.
"active" to me doesn't equate to "effective". dude played in spurts. energy spent was the least of his concerns.

 

[reedny]

If Silent G or Patterson don't start killing it from 3, BJ is going to make the rotation. It's that simple.

Dead on. And to take it a half-step further, if TC continues to shoot 27% from the arc, BJ will not only make the rotation, his minutes may increase. How else do you replace 25 ppg in backcourt offense? CJ/Grant may take up some of the slack ... these guys are going to be house-wreckers. But still, we're going to need a reliable shooter to keep defenses off our inside guys.

There are some caveats here, as others have noted: 1) we have a very short sample size on BJ ... while his upside looks promising, 4 games (late) in C make it hard to judge his readiness; 2) BJ's D is a WIP; and 3) although TC's first year percentage was well below the area most of us expect for a "shooter", he has a good stroke and may improve. Otherwise, I consider his D to be adequate, and his handle generally pretty decent.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

sorry but after watching every game last year i'm not entirely sold on the cooney the great defender notion.
"active" to me doesn't equate to "effective". dude played in spurts. energy spent was the least of his concerns.

I think there is some truth to this.

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