the 2000 club

[moqui]

I made this post near the end of the 2011-12 season, clarifying Kris Joseph's place in SU history as his career neared an end. He had just joined the 2000 club - an exclusive group of 16 player who had amassed 1400 career points and 600 career rebounds. 10 of the 16 had been key parts of teams that advanced beyond the Sweet 16 (which JB has only managed to do 6 times in his career). It points out how important productive forwards are to his schemes.

CJ Fair should join the club this season. He'll get his 600th board in the first game of the season and should get his 1400th point in early February, if not sooner. And he has already been beyond the Sweet 16 . . . twice.

Fair: 1698 combined (1099 points, 599 boards) 88 games, 2 times advanced beyond Sweet 16.

Even if he falls short of last year's production (which could happen just due to better team balance or fewer games played), he should end up in the top ten. If he exactly duplicates last year's numbers, he'll finish just behind Stevie Thompson.

 

[TerryM]

Jesus looking at this it becomes painfully obvious that nobody will ever touch DC. Like ever, its his record until the world implodes

 

[moqui]

Jesus looking at this it becomes painfully obvious that nobody will ever touch DC. Like ever, its his record until the world implodes

anyone good enough to even come close is gonzo after two seasons, max

 

[Toga]

anyone good enough to even come close is gonzo after two seasons, max

Impressive showings by Rudy Hackett, Bill Smith and (of course) Dave Bing when viewed on a per game basis.

 

[sufandu]

I made this post near the end of the 2011-12 season, clarifying Kris Joseph's place in SU history as his career neared an end. He had just joined the 2000 club - an exclusive group of 16 player who had amassed 1400 career points and 600 career rebounds. 10 of the 16 had been key parts of teams that advanced beyond the Sweet 16 (which JB has only managed to do 6 times in his career). It points out how important productive forwards are to his schemes.

CJ Fair should join the club this season. He'll get his 600th board in the first game of the season and should get his 1400th point in early February, if not sooner. And he has already been beyond the Sweet 16 . . . twice.

Fair: 1698 combined (1099 points, 599 boards) 88 games, 2 times advanced beyond Sweet 16.

Even if he falls short of last year's production (which could happen just due to better team balance or fewer games played), he should end up in the top ten. If he exactly duplicates last year's numbers, he'll finish just behind Stevie Thompson.

I know this isn't about Stevie, but how ridiculous is it that not only is he on this list, but he's so high. The dude was 6' 2"

 

[pfister1]

Isn't Paul Harris missing from your list?

Orangehoops.org has him with 1253 career points and 832 rebounds.

That would make him and Billy Owens the only two guys to reach that level in less than 4 years. (edit - only two in the freshman eligible era)

 

[jordoo]

Isn't Paul Harris missing from your list?

Orangehoops.org has him with 1253 career points and 832 rebounds.

That would make him and Billy Owens the only two guys to reach that level in less than 4 years. (edit - only two in the freshman eligible era)

Interesting and like Stevie he was only 6-2 maybe 6-3

 

[moqui]

Isn't Paul Harris missing from your list?

Orangehoops.org has him with 1253 career points and 832 rebounds.

That would make him and Billy Owens the only two guys to reach that level in less than 4 years. (edit - only two in the freshman eligible era)

I guess the title of the post is misleading, although I did spell it out in the text body

it isn't simply a 2000 club, its a 1400/600 club . . . 16 players who have amassed at least 1400 points and 600 boards.

 

[orange2win]

How did you decide on the cut-offs? I mean if you had called it a 1400/500 club, Lawrence Moten would be in 4th place. Only Coleman, Wallace and Warrick beat him out. He scores 39% more combined points than Kris Joseph. Plus, at least 8 other guys not listed would precede Joseph. Or why not call it the 2000/1000 club, then only 4 players make it in.

You appear to be using the numbers to support your main point that you need this kind of talent to go places. I generally agree with that point. However, Moten and Shumpert are only a few points short of making your list and we didn't go too far with those teams, so I would argue that there is more to it. Also, the total point approach removes the early leaving players from consideration. Better to use PPG. I wonder how that changes things.

 

[Ghost]

Man, I thought this was going to be about a new exclusive 2000 messages posted club.

 

[moqui]

How did you decide on the cut-offs?

pretty simple, really: the original post was prompted by the fact that Kris had just notched his 1400th point and 600th rebound. I wondered how many people before him had hit those marks, and when I put the list together, the commonality of their post season success was striking. To me, anyway, but of course it won't be for everyone.

I didn't do the leading scorers lists, the 2000/1000 club, etc. because, well, they've all been done.

 

[Rocco]

I miss Otis Hill. That's all.
While I'm at it, I enjoy this picture:

 

[sufandu]

Isn't Paul Harris missing from your list?

Orangehoops.org has him with 1253 career points and 832 rebounds.

That would make him and Billy Owens the only two guys to reach that level in less than 4 years. (edit - only two in the freshman eligible era)

Wow. Had he played one more year, there's a good chance he would have been second or third all time in rebounding. I never realized he had that many before.

 

[sufandu]

Anyone notice Dave Bing and Bill Smith. They got their numbers only playing 76 and 70 games respectively .

 

[orange2win]

Anyone notice Dave Bing and Bill Smith. They got their numbers only playing 76 and 70 games respectively .

After your post I could not resist. The only fair comparison I think is by game. So I figured it out. Here is the top 10 all time combined PPG and RPG

1. Dave Bing 35.1
2. Bill Smith 33.6
3. Carmelo Anthony 32.2
4. Jon Cincebox 30.4
5. Rudy Hackett 28.6
6. Billy Owens 26.7
7. Derrick Coleman 25.7
8. John Wallace 25.1
9. Vaughn Harper 24.4
10. Lawrence Moten 24.2

Kris Joseph is #55

 

[longtimefan]

I made this post near the end of the 2011-12 season, clarifying Kris Joseph's place in SU history as his career neared an end. He had just joined the 2000 club - an exclusive group of 16 player who had amassed 1400 career points and 600 career rebounds. 10 of the 16 had been key parts of teams that advanced beyond the Sweet 16 (which JB has only managed to do 6 times in his career). It points out how important productive forwards are to his schemes.

CJ Fair should join the club this season. He'll get his 600th board in the first game of the season and should get his 1400th point in early February, if not sooner. And he has already been beyond the Sweet 16 . . . twice.

Fair: 1698 combined (1099 points, 599 boards) 88 games, 2 times advanced beyond Sweet 16.

Even if he falls short of last year's production (which could happen just due to better team balance or fewer games played), he should end up in the top ten. If he exactly duplicates last year's numbers, he'll finish just behind Stevie Thompson.

Bing and Boeheim, as seniors, won their Sweet 16 game, and were eliminated in the Elite 8 by Duke.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I made this post near the end of the 2011-12 season, clarifying Kris Joseph's place in SU history as his career neared an end. He had just joined the 2000 club - an exclusive group of 16 player who had amassed 1400 career points and 600 career rebounds. 10 of the 16 had been key parts of teams that advanced beyond the Sweet 16 (which JB has only managed to do 6 times in his career). It points out how important productive forwards are to his schemes.

CJ Fair should join the club this season. He'll get his 600th board in the first game of the season and should get his 1400th point in early February, if not sooner. And he has already been beyond the Sweet 16 . . . twice.

Fair: 1698 combined (1099 points, 599 boards) 88 games, 2 times advanced beyond Sweet 16.

Even if he falls short of last year's production (which could happen just due to better team balance or fewer games played), he should end up in the top ten. If he exactly duplicates last year's numbers, he'll finish just behind Stevie Thompson.

Great chart! Did you put that together? Nice work!

 

[IthacaMatt]

pretty simple, really: the original post was prompted by the fact that Kris had just notched his 1400th point and 600th rebound. I wondered how many people before him had hit those marks, and when I put the list together, the commonality of their post season success was striking. To me, anyway, but of course it won't be for everyone.

I didn't do the leading scorers lists, the 2000/1000 club, etc. because, well, they've all been done.

I think it would be better to eliminate any "minimums" for either category and just tally them up. That gives us a better picture. If you reach 2000, you reach 2000. Shouldn't keep people out on technicalities.

 

[moqui]

Bing and Boeheim, as seniors, won their Sweet 16 game, and were eliminated in the Elite 8 by Duke.

thanks for that . . . I always had that listed as a Sweet 16 game; didn't realize the Orange received a bye that year

 

[jordoo]

After your post I could not resist. The only fair comparison I think is by game. So I figured it out. Here is the top 10 all time combined PPG and RPG

1. Dave Bing 35.1
2. Bill Smith 33.6
3. Carmelo Anthony 32.2
4. Jon Cincebox 30.4
5. Rudy Hackett 28.6
6. Billy Owens 26.7
7. Derrick Coleman 25.7
8. John Wallace 25.1
9. Vaughn Harper 24.4
10. Lawrence Moten 24.2

Kris Joseph is #55

Still a who's who of SU forwards right there. I would guess Hak was close but his first year probably brought down his per game number.

 

[Toga]

Rudy Hackett was/is USC's strength and conditioning coach. His son played for the Trojans.
http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/hackett_rudy00.html

 

[longtimefan]

thanks for that . . . I always had that listed as a Sweet 16 game; didn't realize the Orange received a bye that year

The Ivy league and the NCAA were feuding that year. The Ivy champ (Penn, I think) either wasn't invited or turned down the invite. SU was bracketed to play them in the first round, and thus got a walkover. Beat Lefty Driesell's Davidson team, then lost to Duke with Jack Marin and Bob Verga; both games played in North Carolina (some things haven't changed).

 

[orange2win]

Still a who's who of SU forwards right there. I would guess Hak was close but his first year probably brought down his per game number.

Correct.

11. Donte Greene - 24.2
12. Mike Lee - 23.5
13. Chuck Richards - 23.0
14. Hakim Warrick - 22.9
15. Dennis DuVal - 21.9