The all-inclusive Cuse Coaching Thread

[Louie and Bouie]

Why keep Lester? His offense is second worse to only BC.

According to whom/what metric? Is this that the useless total offense statistic again or something of value? All of the advanced metrics I see, including ESPN's offensive efficiency statistic, have SU ranked above more ACC schools than BC.

sports-reference statistical site has SU offense 10th in the ACC in passing yards per attempt (adjusted for SOS) and 6th in the ACC in rushing yards per attempt (adjusted for SOS).

Starting to think more and more that the OOC scheduling needs to gain more focus again. We are playing way to many bowl-eligible teams for the current state of this program. There is little justification at this time to continue to have a top 25 SOS. It doesn't assist the W-L statistic at all.

 

[GoSU96]

According to whom/what metric? Is this that the useless total offense statistic again or something of value? All of the advanced metrics I see, including ESPN's offensive efficiency statistic, have SU ranked above more ACC schools than BC.

It's certainty not useless. It might not tell the whole story but it's a VERY strong indicator on the overall productivity of an offense relative to the rest of the group.

 

[Millhouse]

It's certainty not useless. It might not tell the whole story but it's a VERY strong indicator on the overall productivity of an offense relative to the rest of the group.

all these stats will eventually converge. the s&p+ that people jumped on for a week is going down. we'll stop hearing about that in a couple weeks. yards per play tells the story just fine. i'd love to see a simple rating of yards per play adjusted by your opponents yards per play. our offense is a little better than our yards per play because we have played a tough schedule. but it's still really bad

 

[djorange1989]

I will forever remember him as the who stole Ishaq Williams from us with his 4 am visit on decision day.

yes, me too, and in retrospect, I guess he may have done us a favor. And Ishaq was going to PSU, not SU at that point. Oh, don't forget the rivalry trophy with UCF!

 

[Louie and Bouie]

It's certainty not useless. It might not tell the whole story but it's a VERY strong indicator on the overall productivity of an offense relative to the rest of the group.

Useless may not be the appropriate term. Everything has some use I guess. I just can't get over that people either don't understand or willingly disregard that the number of snaps, pace of play and defensive ability to end opponents drives have a huge effect on this outdated (my strong opinion) statistic. Off the top of my head, we've had 2 opponents have 18+ play drives. Your offense can't gain yards if it doesn't have the ball. You have to look at the statistics, imo, as to what happens when we actually have the ball and balance that with who we are playing.

I want what is best for the program as I am a life long fan I just think a fair representation of what is happening should be presented and that's what I attempt to add to the conversation. That's all.

I'm pro-Shafer as of now as I think he's a great representative of the program and do think he can get it done moving forward and don't want to start over again. I understand others have opposing viewpoints too.

No matter what happens I will support the program. I had 100% attendance at home games during the GRob era so I've seen it as ugly as it can possibly get.

 

[orangepassion]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...arappolo-matt-johnson-bowling-green/75927926/

 

[tep624]

Yep not an easy game anymore. Diaco is doing a really good job after P buried them. He would be an interesting guy for Coyle to consider.

They'll end up 5-7. 3 of their wins are against Army, Villanova, and Tulane by a combined 14 points. He's definitely done a good job rebuilding their defense, but their offense is pretty lousy.

 

[Millhouse]

Useless may not be the appropriate term. Everything has some use I guess. I just can't get over that people either don't understand or willingly disregard that the number of snaps, pace of play and defensive ability to end opponents drives have a huge effect on this outdated (my strong opinion) statistic. Off the top of my head, we've had 2 opponents have 18+ play drives. Your offense can't gain yards if it doesn't have the ball. You have to look at the statistics, imo, as to what happens when we actually have the ball and balance that with who we are playing.

I want what is best for the program as I am a life long fan I just think a fair representation of what is happening should be presented and that's what I attempt to add to the conversation. That's all.

I'm pro-Shafer as of now as I think he's a great representative of the program and do think he can get it done moving forward and don't want to start over again. I understand others have opposing viewpoints too.

No matter what happens I will support the program. I had 100% attendance at home games during the GRob era so I've seen it as ugly as it can possibly get.

99th in yards per play

BC is #1 in ypp defense, NC st is 32

 

[Louie and Bouie]

99th in yards per play

BC is #1 in ypp defense, NC st is 32

We shall see. None of the raw numbers are adjusted for SOS and I believe that not adjusting for SOS is a big mistake as obviously our YPP would be much higher if our SOS wasn't in the top 25 this season.

Its all good. Gonna let the season play out.

 

[Crusty]

Useless may not be the appropriate term. Everything has some use I guess. I just can't get over that people either don't understand or willingly disregard that the number of snaps, pace of play and defensive ability to end opponents drives have a huge effect on this outdated (my strong opinion) statistic. Off the top of my head, we've had 2 opponents have 18+ play drives. Your offense can't gain yards if it doesn't have the ball. You have to look at the statistics, imo, as to what happens when we actually have the ball and balance that with who we are playing.

I want what is best for the program as I am a life long fan I just think a fair representation of what is happening should be presented and that's what I attempt to add to the conversation. That's all.

I'm pro-Shafer as of now as I think he's a great representative of the program and do think he can get it done moving forward and don't want to start over again. I understand others have opposing viewpoints too.

No matter what happens I will support the program. I had 100% attendance at home games during the GRob era so I've seen it as ugly as it can possibly get.

I only quoted total offense for brevity. Things don't change much when you look at yards per play, which has nothing to do with our defense, pace per play or number of snaps. Part of the problem is that our 3rd down conversion is 11th. That is totally on the offense. We are 103rd nationally in 3rd down conversions.

In the ACC we are:
9th in scoring offense (not taking away defensive scores).
7th in rushing yards per attempt
12th in passing yards per attempt
11th in yards per play total

There is only one metric in which we have improved and that is red zone conversions.

We are mired at the bottom of our conference, which is where our recruiting classes have ranked. It is sad and and I would like to say there is light at the end of the tunnel, but you really have to go a long way to rationalize the teams performance.

 

[Crusty]

We shall see. None of the raw numbers are adjusted for SOS and I believe that not adjusting for SOS is a big mistake as obviously our YPP would be much higher if our SOS wasn't in the top 25 this season.

Its all good. Gonna let the season play out.

Not necessarily. Many teams have have really good offenses and rank higher as an opponents but have lousy defenses. That would include the Big 12, NC, Bowling Green, Memphis, Houston, etc etc. So you cannot say that a SOS necessarily speaks to how a teams offense would perform with higher or lower SOS.

 

[TheCusian]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...arappolo-matt-johnson-bowling-green/75927926/

Someone send tape of Dungey throwing on the run to Dino.

 

[Rocco]

yes, me too, and in retrospect, I guess he may have done us a favor. And Ishaq was going to PSU, not SU at that point. Oh, don't forget the rivalry trophy with UCF!

That is not necessarily true. Pretty sure he was Cuse lean last minute before flipping

 

[djorange1989]

That is not necessarily true. Pretty sure he was Cuse lean last minute before flipping

you are usually dead on, Rocco, but I think Ishaq was packing his bags and heading to PSU. as in, he was going to enroll and move in,since he was an early enrollee. Diaco stopped him from going. Either way, Diaco is a ! :0

 

[nzm136]

Thoughts:
*HCSS was a great DC and is clearly a brilliant mind.
*HCSS loves Syracuse and is passionate about it.
*HCSS is loyal ... To a fault.
*Our assistant coaches belong in the MAC, not the ACC.
*This is a terrible year to hire a coach. There are a TON of openings, including some big-time openings.
*We have momentum in the form of young talent and new facilities/planned facilities.
*We have relatively low expectations. Unlike places such as Texas, it will be a while before a Syracuse coach gets fired for going 6-6.
*We have money, but we haven't spent it on football coaches for a while.
*We have a new AD who came from a football-first school.
*Our OC has limited experience as a P5 OC, but the offense is marketably better than last year, albeit that isn't saying a lot.
*We're in a position where we will either have a lame duck coach, or we will have to take action - either by terminating HCSS this year, or by giving him an extension after a weak year and a weak tenure.
*Its unlikely that top shelf assistants will leave a good job for a job under a coach on the hot seat unless we pay them a LOT. However, since there are a lot of openings, there are probably a lot of assistant coaches looking for a job right now.
*A significant number of fans are disillusioned with the program.
*We should have a good offense (at least passing) and special teams because we play almost all our games in perfect weather (Dome + southern away games).

Am I missing anything?

 

[Toga]

However, since there are a lot of openings, there are probably a lot of assistant coaches looking for a job right now.

Good point.

 

[orangenirvana]

It seems like a lot of people here will actually be hoping that the Orangemen lose the next two games.
Sad.

 

[orangenirvana]

The syracusefan.com coaching jinx is in full effect. Rhule was on the A list and then Temple got a woodshed beating from So. Fla. Now the A-1 forum favorite Babers and his high octane offense got spanked last night (QB had a QBR of 49 in the game) while scoring the same amount of points we did against Clemson. Who's next to fall? Where is that list again?

Good. I hope Bowling Green doesn't win another game the rest of the year. Keep him off coaching lists.

 

[TheCusian]

Good. I hope Bowling Green doesn't win another game the rest of the year. Keep him off coaching lists.

He keeps losing he might end up off ours. We don't even know that Coyle would consider the guy in the first place.

 

[Rocco]

The syracusefan.com coaching jinx is in full effect. Rhule was on the A list and then Temple got a woodshed beating from So. Fla. Now the A-1 forum favorite Babers and his high octane offense got spanked last night (QB had a QBR of 49 in the game) while scoring the same amount of points we did against Clemson. Who's next to fall? Where is that list again?

Come again? I've always like Campbell more than Babers, but I love them both and would happily take either one to run their offense here.

 

[dollarbill44]

Finance people, help me here. 7 million is a lot. Those making it, Urban, Harbaugh, Saban (although I think even he is at like 5 mil) etc., almost guarantee you successful BCS championship seasons, granted they are at the factories. Coach K makes 9 million and has won 5 championships in 12 FF's. Doesn't it make sense to pay top dollar with the idea, you recoup that money through success. I get paying on the cheap to expand your margins, but given our lack of success in that method over the last many years, something ain't working. I'm not suggesting trying to compete with the factories either, but what about paying 3 million for a head coach. Should be very possible. And to those that think Hop isn't going to command that much if he show's early success, they are crazy. While JB has been generous with his salary demands, he hasn't won like Coach K, Calhoun, or even Slicky Ricky.

The guys you mention didn't produce championships because they got paid big bucks. They get big bucks because they won championships. The $$$ just ensures they stick around to win more. If we give SS a raise to $5 million a year, it doesn't mean we win 10 games next year.

 

[orangenirvana]

Is Eric Morris too young to consider?

He just turned 30 but this is his third year as Texas Tech's OC (second year full-time after splitting duties with Sonny Cumbie, now with TCU).

If you want a guy who knows the Air Raid system as well as anyone and are afraid of the number of "bigger" programs looking for HC's, this could be a guy who we can jump on before he blows up and attracts bigger contracts than we're able to afford.

He played for Mike Leach at Texas Tech from 2004-2008.

His first coaching job was for Houston under Kevin Sumlin for two years from 2010-2011 (Air Raid - Case Keenum).

In 2012 he coached wide receivers at Washington State for Mike Leach - so at least he's been out of the state of Texas.

In 2013 he joined Kingsbury at Texas Tech to be the Co-OC and WR coach. In 2014 he was promoted to full-time OC.

2013 - #2 in passing yards per game, #9 overall offense
2014 - #5 in passing yards per game, #10 overall
2015 - #3 in passing yards per game, #3 overall

 

[Orangejet]

Thoughts:
*HCSS was a great DC and is clearly a brilliant mind.
*HCSS loves Syracuse and is passionate about it.
*HCSS is loyal ... To a fault.
*Our assistant coaches belong in the MAC, not the ACC.
*This is a terrible year to hire a coach. There are a TON of openings, including some big-time openings.
*We have momentum in the form of young talent and new facilities/planned facilities.
*We have relatively low expectations. Unlike places such as Texas, it will be a while before a Syracuse coach gets fired for going 6-6.
*We have money, but we haven't spent it on football coaches for a while.
*We have a new AD who came from a football-first school.
*Our OC has limited experience as a P5 OC, but the offense is marketably better than last year, albeit that isn't saying a lot.
*We're in a position where we will either have a lame duck coach, or we will have to take action - either by terminating HCSS this year, or by giving him an extension after a weak year and a weak tenure.
*Its unlikely that top shelf assistants will leave a good job for a job under a coach on the hot seat unless we pay them a LOT. However, since there are a lot of openings, there are probably a lot of assistant coaches looking for a job right now.
*A significant number of fans are disillusioned with the program.
*We should have a good offense (at least passing) and special teams because we play almost all our games in perfect weather (Dome + southern away games).

Am I missing anything?

Good post!

If the Cuse loses out to finish 3 - 9 for the second straight year, how in the world can you keep a Head Coach in the midst of a 9 game losing streak?

 

[djorange1989]

Is Eric Morris too young to consider?

He just turned 30 but this is his third year as Texas Tech's OC (second year full-time after splitting duties with Sonny Cumbie, now with TCU).

If you want a guy who knows the Air Raid system as well as anyone and are afraid of the number of "bigger" programs looking for HC's, this could be a guy who we can jump on before he blows up and attracts bigger contracts than we're able to afford.

He played for Mike Leach at Texas Tech from 2004-2008.

His first coaching job was for Houston under Kevin Sumlin for two years from 2010-2011 (Air Raid - Case Keenum).

In 2012 he coached wide receivers at Washington State for Mike Leach - so at least he's been out of the state of Texas.

In 2013 he joined Kingsbury at Texas Tech to be the Co-OC and WR coach. In 2014 he was promoted to full-time OC.

2013 - #2 in passing yards per game, #9 overall offense
2014 - #5 in passing yards per game, #10 overall
2015 - #3 in passing yards per game, #3 overall

certainly an intriguing guy(kid as far as this 48 year old is concerned). I am not worried about his age, but I absolutely think we need to hire someone who is, or has been, a head coach. I don't want a learn on the job guy. I know it worked out with Marrone but he is super/psycho organized, he is an exception.

 

[Cusefan78]

Good post!

If the Cuse loses out to finish 3 - 9 for the second straight year, how in the world can you keep a Head Coach in the midst of a 9 game losing streak?

And when the next coach comes in and has to stock his type of players then loses for three years are we back on the same routine that he needs to be replaced. At some point you need to take the cards we are dealt and see the hand through. I honestly think it's quicker to let shafer follow through for another year. His guys are a year older and will all be freshman- juniors. If then he can't win with his guys there are no more excuses and you let him go. People have to be honest. Pitt, Ville, Clemson, Virginia, and lsu the opposing team was favored in. Shafers only lose by the numbers was usf. He needs another year. 4 years is the minimum number of years to see if things are advancing or ing. Last year is a wash with the injuries. There isn't a team in the country that wins with that many qbs out. This year isn't an excuse but his players are young and playing all over the field. Ontop of add in a new playbook and some stupid coaching calls and you have a 3-9 record. One more year and you know for sure what you have. Right now you simply don't. Right now i trust coyle to make the smart move not the move that makes fans happy but a move that is good for getting this program to the next level. If he thinks it's to keep shafer, great. if its get a new guy, great. He is getting paid and has the football iq and inside knowledge of the situation that honestly none of us have.