The all-inclusive Cuse Coaching Thread | Page 30 | Syracusefan.com

The all-inclusive Cuse Coaching Thread

certainly an intriguing guy(kid as far as this 48 year old is concerned). I am not worried about his age, but I absolutely think we need to hire someone who is, or has been, a head coach. I don't want a learn on the job guy. I know it worked out with Marrone but he is super/psycho organized, he is an exception.
i think we need to relax a little bit about our requirements. i think we focus too much on our own history when there are so many other scenarios to look at at other schools. we're 1 for 3 on coordinators (unfair to lump shafer in with gerg ...)

this is a little rich coming from me being so hellbent on an offense guy but i swear my view is coming from looking at a bunch of non factories - it's not just because shafer and gerg were defensive.

if people are against a first time head coach because of results nationally, ok but i don't think it's been that bad for most schools to promote a coordinator
 
And when the next coach comes in and has to stock his type of players then loses for three years are we back on the same routine that he needs to be replaced. At some point you need to take the cards we are dealt and see the hand through. I honestly think it's quicker to let shafer follow through for another year. His guys are a year older and will all be freshman- juniors. If then he can't win with his guys there are no more excuses and you let him go. People have to be honest. Pitt, Ville, Clemson, Virginia, and lsu the opposing team was favored in. Shafers only lose by the numbers was usf. He needs another year. 4 years is the minimum number of years to see if things are advancing or . . . . . . ing. Last year is a wash with the injuries. There isn't a team in the country that wins with that many qbs out. This year isn't an excuse but his players are young and playing all over the field. Ontop of add in a new playbook and some stupid coaching calls and you have a 3-9 record. One more year and you know for sure what you have. Right now you simply don't. Right now i trust coyle to make the smart move not the move that makes fans happy but a move that is good for getting this program to the next level. If he thinks it's to keep shafer, great. if its get a new guy, great. He is getting paid and has the football iq and inside knowledge of the situation that honestly none of us have.


If Shafer had a 5 year contract meaning 2 years left I can totally see a reason to keep him around another year usually the make or break year in the contract for a coach is the year before the contract is up. For Shafer that is year 3. Because of his contract status I believe the smart play is to move on. If we lose out and throw up back to back 3-9 seasons and coming off a 9 game losing streak I don't see how you can sell a fan base on giving the guy a contract extension. You can't have a lame duck coach. In this day in age a lame duck coach is a program nightmare and a major tool used against you in the recruiting world.

So there is no lets see what Shafer has in his 4th year and then make the call. The decision on Shafer needs to be made now. Either extend him or let him go. Like my points above if we lose out try and sell the fans hope coming off a back to back 3-9 win season on the back of a 9 game losing streak will be a lost cause. You can't sell we are serious about football and extend a coach coming off a 9 game losing streak impossible.

Shafer is a great guy and great in the community but coaching is a result business and wins are the bottom line.
 
certainly an intriguing guy(kid as far as this 48 year old is concerned). I am not worried about his age, but I absolutely think we need to hire someone who is, or has been, a head coach. I don't want a learn on the job guy. I know it worked out with Marrone but he is super/psycho organized, he is an exception.
What's the reason we need someone who has been a head coach?

Shafer's issues aren't because he wasn't a head coach before being promoted at SU.

Maybe certain off-field duties we don't see could be lacking in the beginning. Maybe hiring a AHC/DC like say Orgeron would be valuable.

But I don't think we can afford to eliminate all candidates who haven't had the opportunity to be the head man yet. Very often, skill outweighs experience. And in this case Eric Morris has a great skill - expertise in the greatest scheme in the sport.
 
What's the reason we need someone who has been a head coach?

Shafer's issues aren't because he wasn't a head coach before being promoted at SU.

Maybe certain off-field duties we don't see could be lacking in the beginning. Maybe hiring a AHC/DC like say Orgeron would be valuable.

But I don't think we can afford to eliminate all candidates who haven't had the opportunity to be the head man yet. Very often, skill outweighs experience. And in this case Eric Morris has a great skill - expertise in the greatest scheme in the sport.

Because the program isn't in a position where we can afford to have somebody figure things out via on-the-job training, or flop because they don't have the chops to be a head coach. Time to bring in somebody with a proven track record to expedite the turnaround and maximize our chances of the transition being successful. We have the financial resources where we can and should be aiming a little higher now, IMO.
 
If we are going to go the coordinator route then Lincoln Riley or Scott Frost would be the top of my list. Coyle has a relationship with Frost already he interviewed him for the Boise job.

It would be interesting in Coyle hired Frost has head coach and had ED O hired as AHC, D Coordinator and Recruiting Coordinator. I think that would be an awesome combo for the University.
 
Because the program isn't in a position where we can afford to have somebody figure things out via on-the-job training, or flop because they don't have the chops to be a head coach. Time to bring in somebody with a proven track record to expedite the turnaround and maximize our chances of the transition being successful. We have the financial resources where we can and should be aiming a little higher now, IMO.
That sounds good and I want a guy like Babers or Brohm or Mongomery over the unknown as well.

But if I have a choice between a defensive guy who was fairly successful as a HC at a midmajor or a coordinator who is adept at teaching and designing a highly functional offense in a Power 5 conference - I'm choosing the coordinator . Just a personal preference.
 
That sounds good and is my preference as well. But I would prefer a coordinator who is adept at teaching and designing a highly functional offense in a Power 5 conference over a defensive guy who was fairly successful as a HC at a midmajor. Just a personal preference.

I'd prefer offense, too, but I will accept somebody who has a proven track record of success even if they are a defensive oriented coach. And it doesn't have to be P5 [or even FBS, necessarily]. Nothing against Frost, but it is much different recruiting at an Oregon than it would be here. Just look at that ND coach who went to uconn. We're perched precariously, can't afford to make another bad hire.
 
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i think we need to relax a little bit about our requirements. i think we focus too much on our own history when there are so many other scenarios to look at at other schools. we're 1 for 3 on coordinators (unfair to lump shafer in with gerg ...)

this is a little rich coming from me being so hellbent on an offense guy but i swear my view is coming from looking at a bunch of non factories - it's not just because shafer and gerg were defensive.

if people are against a first time head coach because of results nationally, ok but i don't think it's been that bad for most schools to promote a coordinator

For a school like Syracuse who can't bounce back easily from a bad hire and has essentially sucked for about 30 of the last 45 years, I just think a proven HC is a much safer bet. is it foolproof? of course not. But, to me, the risk is a lot lower.
 
If we are going to go the coordinator route then Lincoln Riley or Scott Frost would be the top of my list. Coyle has a relationship with Frost already he interviewed him for the Boise job.

It would be interesting in Coyle hired Frost has head coach and had ED O hired as AHC, D Coordinator and Recruiting Coordinator. I think that would be an awesome combo for the University.
Matt Luke at Ole Miss should be a candidate. He's the assistant head coach there.

Others - Sonny Cumbie (TCU), Kendal Briles (Baylor), Mike Yurcich (Ok State), Tony Franklin (Cal).
 
For a school like Syracuse who can't bounce back easily from a bad hire and has essentially sucked for about 30 of the last 45 years, I just think a proven HC is a much safer bet. is it foolproof? of course not. But, to me, the risk is a lot lower.
We need to be careful of the "The world will end if our next guy is not the right guy and successful" mentality because it's simply not true.

Roll the dice on an innovative young offensive prodigy and see what happens. If he stinks then we'll move on in four years. So what?

I think it's that type of fear-mongering that makes people hesitant or scared to fire a 13-22 coach. "No, we need to give him that fourth year to make realllly sure!" Why?
 
I will forever remember him as the who stole Ishaq Williams from us with his 4 am visit on decision day.
Unfortunately Ishaq wasn't coming here. He was headed to Penn St later that AM until Diaco showed up at 4AM

Of course as we all knew at the time he should've come here. He would've been an early starter and likely wouldn't have gotten jammed up like he did. Just another in the long line of NY kids who think they are better than SU only to flame out elsewhere
 
orangenirvana said:
We need to be careful of the "The world will end if our next guy is not the right guy and successful" mentality because it's simply not true. Roll the dice on an innovative young offensive prodigy and see what happens. If he stinks then we'll move on in four years. So what? I think it's that type of fear-mongering that makes people hesitant or scared to fire a 13-22 coach. "No, we need to give him that fourth year to make realllly sure!" Why?
Ha. Great perspective when your not the AD. Coyle wants it right the first time if he can. He's not going to say , hey What, if I screw this up I'll just fix it. That kind of thinking is kinda, sorta frowned upon.
 
Has Joe Moglia been thrown out there yet?
 
you are usually dead on, Rocco, but I think Ishaq was packing his bags and heading to PSU. as in, he was going to enroll and move in,since he was an early enrollee. Diaco stopped him from going. Either way, Diaco is a ! :0
Diaco is an arrogant sob. I'm not a fan. And let's be honest winning 5 games in the AAC isn't that impressive. I'm not convinced we could manage 5 W's in that conf this year... Sigh
 
We need to be careful of the "The world will end if our next guy is not the right guy and successful" mentality because it's simply not true.

Roll the dice on an innovative young offensive prodigy and see what happens. If he stinks then we'll move on in four years. So what?

I think it's that type of fear-mongering that makes people hesitant or scared to fire a 13-22 coach. "No, we need to give him that fourth year to make realllly sure!" Why?

It's not fear mongering, it's knowing that if we suck for the next four years we will probably suck for the next 8 years. And I am not saying HCSS should stay, I am saying hire someone who already knows how to be a head coach.
 
For a school like Syracuse who can't bounce back easily from a bad hire and has essentially sucked for about 30 of the last 45 years, I just think a proven HC is a much safer bet. is it foolproof? of course not. But, to me, the risk is a lot lower.
we had the worst hire ever and we bounced back ok with a guy who is currently coaching an offensive line for tens of fans. i agree though, if missing on this coach is deadly, then sure, a former HC is less likely to be a disaster, i admit that
 
I want there to be pressure to get it right. Forces due diligence and accountability at the AD level.
 
I generally agree, Rhule's one of the only D guys I like. Turning Temple into what they are is no easy feat, and Northeastern ties and recruiting, while not the be all end all, are nice.

Rhule is Golden 2.0. At least Temple knows their model now.

Just a guess, but I don't think Rhule will be on Miami's short list.
 
we had the worst hire ever and we bounced back ok with a guy who is currently coaching an offensive line for tens of fans. i agree though, if missing on this coach is deadly, then sure, a former HC is less likely to be a disaster, i admit that

Imagine if they didn't put NFL Red Zone on their big screen during games? He'd be coaching for fives of fans. Or twos.
 
I'd prefer offense, too, but I will accept somebody who has a proven track record of success even if they are a defensive oriented coach. And it doesn't have to be P5 [or even FBS, necessarily]. Nothing against Frost, but it is much different recruiting at an Oregon than it would be here. Just look at that ND coach who went to uconn. We're perched precariously, can't afford to make another bad hire.
I think we could do much worse than Frost. He's spent quite a bit of time at Oregon now and learned under Chip Kelly for a number of years. Oregon is still doing very well on offense. Played in the NFL, has a flashy and well-known name, fwiw.
 
Diaco is an arrogant sob. I'm not a fan. And let's be honest winning 5 games in the AAC isn't that impressive. I'm not convinced we could manage 5 W's in that conf this year... Sigh

There are a lot of arrogant sobs out there who have done well in the coaching world.
 
we had the worst hire ever and we bounced back ok with a guy who is currently coaching an offensive line for tens of fans. i agree though, if missing on this coach is deadly, then sure, a former HC is less likely to be a disaster, i admit that

The Jags have tens of fans now? wow, Doug must have brought them an attendance boost from the 3 they had before!
 

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