The All Inclusive NY State Recruiting Thread

[Ozone!]

I feel what you’re saying…

What I’m trying to say is…if you have had those and that’s without diving into it and researching…how many others are there that may have been missed?

If Cuse starts fostering a relationship and getting a first crack at them…who knows

I think it’s worth digging and flipping rocks and seeing what you can find….

I think what Syracuse is doing with offering NYS guys such as Jobity and Barrett is solid.

You never know when you find the next Rob Gronkowski or Chandler Jones

And who’s to say that all our recruits need to be the type that are NFL ready in one year; perhaps the ones who take a little longer add continuity to the program and show other NYS players what focus and work may produce!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

When it comes to NYS Football recruiting it comes down to potential. Does the kid posses the overall raw athleticism and or frame to be a P5 football player in probably 2-3 years. If yes, you need to develop said athlete and hopefully they can contribute for 3 years. Most really good athletes in NYS only play football 3-4 months a year. These are the type of kids Syracuse needs to bring in. I don't think there are a ton of kids out there like this but probably 2-3 every year they can take a shot on. It's never going to be what it once was 30 years ago because in many cases the best athletes aren't playing football anymore in NYS and the sport is dying in New York.

 

[Ozone!]

When it comes to NYS Football recruiting it comes down to potential. Does the kid posses the overall raw athleticism and or frame to be a P5 football player in probably 2-3 years. If yes, you need to develop said athlete and hopefully they can contribute for 3 years. Most really good athletes in NYS only play football 3-4 months a year. These are the type of kids Syracuse needs to bring in. I don't think there are a ton of kids out there like this but probably 2-3 every year they can take a shot on. It's never going to be what it once was 30 years ago because in many cases the best athletes aren't playing football anymore in NYS and the sport is dying in New York.

Is it possible, in time, that NYS football might upgrade due to enhanced support from Syracuse Football? Many of the university’s undergrads come from NY High Schools, including many of the band members. Perhaps there is a win/win in all of this.

 

[CousCuse]

When it comes to NYS Football recruiting it comes down to potential. Does the kid posses the overall raw athleticism and or frame to be a P5 football player in probably 2-3 years. If yes, you need to develop said athlete and hopefully they can contribute for 3 years. Most really good athletes in NYS only play football 3-4 months a year. These are the type of kids Syracuse needs to bring in. I don't think there are a ton of kids out there like this but probably 2-3 every year they can take a shot on. It's never going to be what it once was 30 years ago because in many cases the best athletes aren't playing football anymore in NYS and the sport is dying in New York.

That's really my central point. Guys like Barrett and KJ are STUDENT athletes who will stay for 4 or 5 years because they want the education. They can build a core of guys like that which would provide continuity and depth even if they don't blow up and become starters. Syracuse University should want them as students even if they weren't football players. There are more guys like that around the state. There are a lot who play QB at smaller rural schools that play basketball and lacrosse and have great academics, many are 6'3" or bigger and very strong athletes.

 

[CousCuse]

I got thinking about that Zion Tracy guy, if his metrics are even close to what's advertised, they should get him, if he qualifies as a student. He strikes me as a young Moss or Rice or Diggs, something about him.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That's really my central point. Guys like Barrett and KJ are STUDENT athletes who will stay for 4 or 5 years because they want the education. They can build a core of guys like that which would provide continuity and depth even if they don't blow up and become starters. Syracuse University should want them as students even if they weren't football players. There are more guys like that around the state. There are a lot who play QB at smaller rural schools that play basketball and lacrosse and have great academics, many are 6'3" or bigger and very strong athletes.

I loved a kid named Lucas Scott that played for Chenango Forks a couple years ago, played D End and Running back there, he also was a very good wrestler. Big, quick and athletic. He wound up at West Point and just finished his freshman year there, He's listed at 6-3 250 DE on their current roster. He's a really good athlete and probably would have been worth a shot at DE at Syracuse. he was never offered and tough to take exception with any kid who winds up at Army but he is certainly athletic enough, IMO. I am sure they looked at him at some point I would think.

Will follow his career as it progresses. There were rumors that he was going to wrestle there too but not sure that's even feasible. All that said, it's kids like these which I think everyone is talking about and obviously he's good student as well.

 

[CousCuse]

I loved a kid named Lucas Scott that played for Chenango Forks a couple years ago, played D End and Running back there, he also was a very good wrestler. Big, quick and athletic. He wound up at West Point and just finished his freshman year there, He's listed at 6-3 250 DE on their current roster. He's a really good athlete and probably would have been worth a shot at DE at Syracuse. he was never offered and tough to take exception with any kid who winds up at Army but he is certainly athletic enough, IMO. I am sure they looked at him at some point I would think.

Will follow his career as it progresses. There were rumors that he was going to wrestle there too but not sure that's even feasible. All that said, it's kids like these which I think everyone is talking about and obviously he's good student as well.

Joe Benedict was a guy like that also. He won the NYS heavyweight wrestling title, you have to be one strong guy to do that. He played at Brockport but had a knee injury and i believe he stopped playing football.

 

[goofnoff]

There is a dearth of talent in NYS which doesn’t warrant a wide net approach. There are far too many schools that produce FBS level talent once in a blue moon. The staff simply can’t cover all that ground and maintain all those relationships in this state for the little return it offers while doing the same on a national level in more prosperous recruiting areas.

NYS does not and never has had the affinity to Syracuse where you really could start to play on the state pride angle like some of the large state schools in other states do. Marrone tried that with the whole NY’s school thing and it had marginal success. We’ll retain our share of the best here if we consistently win. We will never “lock down the state”. I hate beating that drum but it’s true. Even when we were a regular top 25 team in the 90’s we were still losing top instate talent to ND and the big 10 with regularity. And that was at our peak in the last 30 years.

Why am I saying this - simply this, the law of diminishing returns is in full play in recruiting NYS and we have to be very careful as to how we use our limited resources.

Coach Mac believed in recruiting NYS and ended up getting some no name out of Liverpool. The kid never amounted to much, as I remember, and it's probably good he went to law school for a good education so he'd have a job.

 

[tep624]

Coach Mac believed in recruiting NYS and ended up getting some no name out of Liverpool. The kid never amounted to much, as I remember, and it's probably good he went to law school for a good education so he'd have a job.

Coach Mac coached 30+ years ago at a time when the number of prospects in NYS warranted heavily focusing on the state. Those days are long gone. What Barrel posted above is accurate.

Now that being said the program should be able to pull 3-5 kids from the state annually, there’s enough talent around to do that. But the days of Syracuse recruiting classes with 10+ NYS prospects are long in the past and have been for a while. Marrone put a huge emphasis on the state and he was never at a position to fill half a class with NYS prospects.

For example, I grew up in Utica/Rome area and that area was putting out 1-2 G5/P5 level recruits a year 80’s up until the early 2000’s. Those days are over there and I’m sure that’s not the only area in the state that has seen that happen.

 

[goofnoff]

Coach Mac coached 30+ years ago at a time when the number of prospects in NYS warranted heavily focusing on the state. Those days are long gone. What Barrel posted above is accurate.

Now that being said the program should be able to pull 3-5 kids from the state annually, there’s enough talent around to do that. But the days of Syracuse recruiting classes with 10+ NYS prospects are long in the past and have been for a while. Marrone put a huge emphasis on the state and he was never at a position to fill half a class with NYS prospects.

For example, I grew up in Utica/Rome area and that area was putting out 1-2 G5/P5 level recruits a year 80’s up until the early 2000’s. Those days are over there and I’m sure that’s not the only area in the state that has seen that happen.

I disagree with you totally. I think the fact we lose so many NYS prospects to other out-of-state schools every year is a crime. I could go on with other examples. How about a number one NFL draft choice who went to CBA that we lost to Notre Dame. There's a ton of kids from Buffalo that go out-of-state. Penn St. always has done well in Buffalo and the So Tier. NYS doesn't have the HS football programs they have in most of the rest of the country. However, if we can't keep our own kids at home where will we get players?

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Coach Mac believed in recruiting NYS and ended up getting some no name out of Liverpool. The kid never amounted to much, as I remember, and it's probably good he went to law school for a good education so he'd have a job.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Green was far from a no name recruit. It was a huge deal that he chose to stay home. Mac grabbed many NY guys Schwedes, Drummond, Moose, McPherson, etc.

 

[tep624]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Green was far from a no name recruit. It was a huge deal that he chose to stay home. Mac grabbed many NY guys Schwedes, Drummond, Moose, McPherson, etc.

He was a big time recruit. Rob Konrad level.

 

[tep624]

I disagree with you totally. I think the fact we lose so many NYS prospects to other out-of-state schools every year is a crime. I could go on with other examples. How about a number one NFL draft choice who went to CBA that we lost to Notre Dame. There's a ton of kids from Buffalo that go out-of-state. Penn St. always has done well in Buffalo and the So Tier. NYS doesn't have the HS football programs they have in most of the rest of the country. However, if we can't keep our own kids at home where will we get players?

You can disagree with me totally but nothing I posted is inaccurate. Run the numbers.

I'm working on an analytic right now of the rivals recruiting data for NYS signed prospects from 2002-2022. Really curious what this will look like when I'm done with it.

 

[CousCuse]

You can disagree with me totally but nothing I posted is inaccurate. Run the numbers.

Athletics at Utica Proctor seem better now than they ever have been.

 

[money3189]

I will always advocate for Rochester and other kids in NYS. There’s ballers here no doubt. Finding them is the hard part.

Let me give you guys another angle in this non stop talk about NYS recruiting. There’s a bad perception of us. I hear that from coaches constantly. I had a recent conversation with a D1 coach from the west coast. He said NYS is a D3 state. I laughed and asked him what he meant by that? He said NYS is known for having strong division 3 football programs so coaches view the kids here as D3 type players.

 

[CousCuse]

I will always advocate for Rochester and other kids in NYS. There’s ballers here no doubt. Finding them is the hard part.

Let me give you guys another angle in this non stop talk about NYS recruiting. There’s a bad perception of us. I hear that from coaches constantly. I had a recent conversation by a D1 coach from the west coast. He said NYS is a D3 state. I laughed and asked him what he meant by that? He said NYS is known for having strong division 3 football programs so coached view the kids here as D3 type players.

It's terrible, think of all the potential lost scholarship opportunities for NY players because of that perception.

 

[tep624]

Athletics at Utica Proctor seem better now than they ever have been.

For G5/P5 level football prospects? They haven’t had one since Deandre Preaster over 10 years ago. And he never even qualified. For a kid that actually enrolled you have to go back to 2004. And Rome is worse.

 

[orangenauburn]

For G5/P5 level football prospects? They haven’t had one since Deandre Preaster over 10 years ago. And he never even qualified. For a kid that actually enrolled you have to go back to 2004. And Rome is worse.

I live in New Hartford

UP and Rome do not have any D1 prospects.

They might have some Utica College type kids, but they have nowhere near the potential, size, or talent that other schools in Syracuse area have.

I'd put them towards the bottom of section 3 as far as pure athletes and potential.

UP had a couple sophomores on roster but they didn't do much of anything. They didn't have a playmaker or difference maker.

RFA has a lot of younger players on their roster but they too have shown nothing and are smaller in stature and build.

You can pick almost any other A or AA program and identify someone who could play at a MAC program.

Not trying to pile on, but the football talent in the Utica-Rome / Valley area is probably at an All time low.

The region at one time did have plenty of strong players, but it's glory days are just a memory now.

 

[tep624]

I live in New Hartford

UP and Rome do not have any D1 prospects.

They might have some Utica College type kids, but they have nowhere near the potential, size, or talent that other schools in Syracuse area have.

I'd put them towards the bottom of section 3 as far as pure athletes and potential.

UP had a couple sophomores ontoster but they didn't do much of anything. They didn't have a playmaker or difference maker.

RFA has a lot of younger players on their roster but they too have shown nothing and are smaller in stature and build.

You can pick almost any other A or AA program and identify someone who could play at a MAC program.

Not trying to pile on, but the football talent in the Utica-Rome / Valley area is probably at an All time low.

The region at one time did have plenty of strong players, but it's glory days are just a memory now.

It’s the truth unfortunately. From the mid 80’s when I was in elementary school to the late 90’s/early00’s when I graduated from college if you added all the G5/P5 kids from the Utica/Rome area, it probably averaged about 1 a year.

To see that there literally hasn’t been a kid at that level in 13 years is depressing as to the state of football talent levels there now.

 

[orangenauburn]

It’s the truth unfortunately. From the mid 80’s when I was in elementary school to the late 90’s/early00’s when I graduated from college if you added all the G5/P5 kids from the Utica/Rome area, it probably averaged about 1 a year.

To see that there literally hasn’t been a kid at that level in 13 years is depressing as to the state of football talent levels there now.

Heck even Utica ND has fallen on hard times. I know a lot of kids are interested in soccer, hoops is huge, hockey and lax are also growing out here.

The athletes have shifted to other sports in the valley.

Part of it is those are the programs offered through Accelerated Sports in Whitesboro. That's pretty much where all the indoor off season activities happen.

They have a 5-8 yr old football program, but that's it off season.

 

[GoSU96]

Coach Mac believed in recruiting NYS and ended up getting some no name out of Liverpool. The kid never amounted to much, as I remember, and it's probably good he went to law school for a good education so he'd have a job.

Uh, back then Liverpool was an athletic power. I would know. Senior year the football team was number one in the state, George O’Leary was the HC, had multiple d-1 players on it. Four years before pPete Holihan was the QB. JJ Grant and Chris Gedney were to follow in the next couple of years. There was a well established Pop Warner program that almost everyone played in. The last thing Tim Green was was a no name.

Lacrosse was just getting introduced, Soccer wasn’t really a thing. Hockey was very niche. Football was huge.

Best athletes played hoops as well.

Swimming was huge obviously, which was its own year round ecosystem.

 

[CIL]

Not to be a pain in your butt Tom, but I was called a troll and talked to like I'm an idiot because I've advocated going after just these type of players in New York. Very encouraged to see the staff is really trying to get these great undeveloped athletes right in our own backyard. Hope they take Barrett, KJ, Zion and more of them.

Not to be a pain, but the last couple of years has been difficult to recruit NYS because of an ultra condensed COVID shortened 2020 season that was pushed to spring (when these prospects were juniors).

NYS HS football already had shortened seasons compared to other states. Most schools played 4-5 games in 2020, then 6 games in 2021. That’s equivalent to one season in Florida.

It has nothing to do with ignoring NY, but a much more difficult evaluation cycle than in years past. And NY players hard hard enough to evaluate already.

 

[JRHEETER]

Not to be a pain, but the last couple of years has been difficult to recruit NYS because of an ultra condensed COVID shortened 2020 season that was pushed to spring (when these prospects were juniors).

NYS HS football already had shortened seasons compared to other states. Most schools played 4-5 games in 2020, then 6 games in 2021. That’s equivalent to one season in Florida.

It has nothing to do with ignoring NY, but a much more difficult evaluation cycle than in years past. And NY players hard hard enough to evaluate already.

Yup, which brings up a whole new issue with Covid.

I’ve literally watched some kids recently who should have been D1 for basketball but because of last season didn’t get the looks and we’re certainly recruited over due to Covid. Made recruiting in NYS extremely extremely tough

Obviously they’ll have a chance to transfer eventually but it’s sad to see.

 

[money3189]

It's terrible, think of all the potential lost scholarship opportunities for NY players because of that perception.

Yup. There's definitely some good prospects missed because of that.

 

[money3189]

I dont agree at all.
Buffalo which has been a much better program than SU the last 5 years has
40 FORTY NY kids on their team.

UB has 30 kids from NYS and half of them are walk ons. Which they can get because its a state school and cheaper to attend. Also, you saw what we did to W Mich and Ohio. What do you think SU record would be each year in the MAC? UB is a much better program because they have more NYS kids?