The All Inclusive NY State Recruiting Thread

[PhatOrange]

I disagree with you totally. I think the fact we lose so many NYS prospects to other out-of-state schools every year is a crime. I could go on with other examples. How about a number one NFL draft choice who went to CBA that we lost to Notre Dame. There's a ton of kids from Buffalo that go out-of-state. Penn St. always has done well in Buffalo and the So Tier. NYS doesn't have the HS football programs they have in most of the rest of the country. However, if we can't keep our own kids at home where will we get players?

Start naming them. Just the past 10 years.

 

[PhatOrange]

It’s the truth unfortunately. From the mid 80’s when I was in elementary school to the late 90’s/early00’s when I graduated from college if you added all the G5/P5 kids from the Utica/Rome area, it probably averaged about 1 a year.

To see that there literally hasn’t been a kid at that level in 13 years is depressing as to the state of football talent levels there now.

I remember when the Air Force Base was open we’d play RFA and they were jacked, big-time athletes all over the place back then.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Uh, back then Liverpool was an athletic power. I would know. Senior year the football team was number one in the state, George O’Leary was the HC, had multiple d-1 players on it. Four years before pPete Holihan was the QB. JJ Grant and Chris Gedney were to follow in the next couple of years. There was a well established Pop Warner program that almost everyone played in. The last thing Tim Green was was a no name.

Lacrosse was just getting introduced, Soccer wasn’t really a thing. Hockey was very niche. Football was huge.

Best athletes played hoops as well.

Swimming was huge obviously, which was its own year round ecosystem.

I remember playing JC football as a kid in the mid 80's practiced near Liverpool Middle/ Liverpool Elementary with spill over at Zogg, there were 3 divisions/ age groups and 5-6 teams in each division. This was all just Liverpool. There was also a couple pop warner teams I think as well, one in Clay I know for sure. It was nuts. Also 2 modified teams for football. That is how talent was developed, there were a ton of D3 types too at Liverpool

Liverpool had 5 little leagues for christ sake.

 

[sutomcat]

Start naming them. Just the past 10 years.

This site has a pretty good list of players from NYS who signed letters of intent for every year going back to 2008.

NYSSWA's RoadToSyracuse.com: Recruiting

I don't think they count some kids that went to prep school outside NYS, or kids that went to JUCO and then to a 4 year institution. But it includes most of the kids who get scholarships for a given year.

They didn't do 2021 and I assume that year is just going to be skipped. Hopefully they do a list for 2022.

Here is a partial list for 2021 and 2022 I put together...

2021

Seven McGee Oregon
Jahzion Harris Texas A&M
Malik Matthew Syracuse
Armon Bethea Arizona State
Khordae Sydnor Iona Prep
Chris King UB
Elijah Fuentes Syracuse
Javon Batten UMass
Anthony Simpson Arizona
Noah Bodden Grambling
Jalen Satchell Temple
Rowan McGwin UB
Michael Washington UB

2022

Joe Cruz Syracuse
Kaleb Artis Penn State
Jimmy Scott Pitt
Henry Belin Duke
Maleek McNeil Penn State
Sean Wilson Virginia
Addison Copeland Pitt
Nadame Tucker Houston
Max Dowling Kansas (orig Canisius HS, transferred to FLA to get noticed)
Sam Martin Temple
Nik McMillan UB
Devin Grant UB
Rino Monteforte UB
Rayyan Buell Ohio
Callum Wither Ohio
Alex Heininger CMU
Oumar Conde CMU
Charlie McKee Stonybrook
Daniel Santiago Holy Cross
Kai Colon Princeton
Justin Joly UConn
Moses Walker Rutgers
Kevin Jobity ?
Zion Cruz
Elias Barrett?

 

[money3189]

This site has a pretty good list of players from NYS who signed letters of intent for every year going back to 2008.

NYSSWA's RoadToSyracuse.com: Recruiting

I don't think they count some kids that went to prep school outside NYS, or kids that went to JUCO and then to a 4 year institution. But it includes most of the kids who get scholarships for a given year.

They didn't do 2021 and I assume that year is just going to be skipped. Hopefully they do a list for 2022.

Here is a partial list for 2021 and 2022 I put together...

2021

Seven McGee Oregon
Jahzion Harris Texas A&M
Malik Matthew Syracuse
Armon Bethea Arizona State
Khordae Sydnor Iona Prep
Chris King UB
Elijah Fuentes Syracuse
Javon Batten UMass
Anthony Simpson Arizona
Noah Bodden Grambling
Jalen Satchell Temple
Rowan McGwin UB
Michael Washington UB

2022

Joe Cruz Syracuse
Kaleb Artis Penn State
Jimmy Scott Pitt
Henry Belin Duke
Maleek McNeil Penn State
Sean Wilson Virginia
Addison Copeland Pitt
Nadame Tucker Houston
Max Dowling Kansas (orig Canisius HS, transferred to FLA to get noticed)
Sam Martin Temple
Nik McMillan UB
Devin Grant UB
Rino Monteforte UB
Rayyan Buell Ohio
Callum Wither Ohio
Alex Heininger CMU
Oumar Conde CMU
Charlie McKee Stonybrook
Daniel Santiago Holy Cross
Kai Colon Princeton
Justin Joly UConn
Moses Walker Rutgers
Kevin Jobity ?
Zion Cruz
Elias Barrett?

Ive taken jabs at Dohn in the past about his rankings but I'm glad to see Ray Buell eventually land a D1 school. Good for him.

 

[orangenauburn]

I remember when the Air Force Base was open we’d play RFA and they were jacked, big-time athletes all over the place back then.

That's why it's dried up in the valley. Base closed thirty years ago. No more imported families from all over the country.

I'm surprised Indian River isn't more dominant with Ft Drum so active.

 

[CousCuse]

Regarding Utica. For the longest time they had 3 high schools there which created a factionalized base of supporterss. They created Utica Proctor as their unified high school not all that long ago. As time goes by people there are starting to identify with that as their school representing their city, if they can start winning it could grow fast. Also, Utica college never had a football team until recently and that too is taking root in the region and could help grow the sport there. Also the governor named UB and Stony Brook as flagship universities for New York state and they will be getting much more funding for their sports programs, especially football.

 

[tep624]

This site has a pretty good list of players from NYS who signed letters of intent for every year going back to 2008.

NYSSWA's RoadToSyracuse.com: Recruiting

I don't think they count some kids that went to prep school outside NYS, or kids that went to JUCO and then to a 4 year institution. But it includes most of the kids who get scholarships for a given year.

They didn't do 2021 and I assume that year is just going to be skipped. Hopefully they do a list for 2022.

Here is a partial list for 2021 and 2022 I put together...

2021

Seven McGee Oregon
Jahzion Harris Texas A&M
Malik Matthew Syracuse
Armon Bethea Arizona State
Khordae Sydnor Iona Prep
Chris King UB
Elijah Fuentes Syracuse
Javon Batten UMass
Anthony Simpson Arizona
Noah Bodden Grambling
Jalen Satchell Temple
Rowan McGwin UB
Michael Washington UB

2022

Joe Cruz Syracuse
Kaleb Artis Penn State
Jimmy Scott Pitt
Henry Belin Duke
Maleek McNeil Penn State
Sean Wilson Virginia
Addison Copeland Pitt
Nadame Tucker Houston
Max Dowling Kansas (orig Canisius HS, transferred to FLA to get noticed)
Sam Martin Temple
Nik McMillan UB
Devin Grant UB
Rino Monteforte UB
Rayyan Buell Ohio
Callum Wither Ohio
Alex Heininger CMU
Oumar Conde CMU
Charlie McKee Stonybrook
Daniel Santiago Holy Cross
Kai Colon Princeton
Justin Joly UConn
Moses Walker Rutgers
Kevin Jobity ?
Zion Cruz
Elias Barrett?

Tom I’m putting together a database of all the NYS signees from Rivals data 2002-2022, I should have that done in the coming days. I’m also identifying home state for all Milford Prep and NYS JC kids so I can properly filter them. Many of those from the data I’ve worked through so far were out of state.

 

[tep624]

I remember when the Air Force Base was open we’d play RFA and they were jacked, big-time athletes all over the place back then.

We went from a HS program that made sectionals every year to a program that made it once or twice in 20 years. Base closure killed us.

When I’m done with this data project I am willing to bet we’re going to see a mass concentration in NYC/Long Island/Southern NY and the rest of the state is going to be comparatively sparse. And that in and of itself is the challenge of being a school located 4.5 hours from the NYC metro area trying to use NYS as an anchor state for recruiting.

 

[JRHEETER]

Regarding Utica. For the longest time they had 3 high schools there which created a factionalized base of supporterss. They created Utica Proctor as their unified high school not all that long ago. As time goes by people there are starting to identify with that as their school representing their city, if they can start winning it could grow fast. Also, Utica college never had a football team until recently and that too is taking root in the region and could help grow the sport there. Also the governor named UB and Stony Brook as flagship universities for New York state and they will be getting much more funding for their sports programs, especially football.

Not official the flagship schools. Just proposed

Albany and Binghamton are not happy at all about it and are pushing to also be designated as flagship…especially Binghamton which hosts a research center, pharm school, nursing school, etc.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

The real issue is that Syracuse as a private school is prohibitively expense to build out a successful walk-on program for local talent. That's historically been a boon for state schools like Kansas State and Iowa. It's a great way to get fliers in the door.

 

[cusebuzza]

East Syracuse Minoa has a WR signed to Stony Brook on a full-ride FYI.

 

[PhatOrange]

This site has a pretty good list of players from NYS who signed letters of intent for every year going back to 2008.

NYSSWA's RoadToSyracuse.com: Recruiting

I don't think they count some kids that went to prep school outside NYS, or kids that went to JUCO and then to a 4 year institution. But it includes most of the kids who get scholarships for a given year.

They didn't do 2021 and I assume that year is just going to be skipped. Hopefully they do a list for 2022.

Here is a partial list for 2021 and 2022 I put together...

2021

Seven McGee Oregon
Jahzion Harris Texas A&M
Malik Matthew Syracuse
Armon Bethea Arizona State
Khordae Sydnor Iona Prep
Chris King UB
Elijah Fuentes Syracuse
Javon Batten UMass
Anthony Simpson Arizona
Noah Bodden Grambling
Jalen Satchell Temple
Rowan McGwin UB
Michael Washington UB

2022

Joe Cruz Syracuse
Kaleb Artis Penn State
Jimmy Scott Pitt
Henry Belin Duke
Maleek McNeil Penn State
Sean Wilson Virginia
Addison Copeland Pitt
Nadame Tucker Houston
Max Dowling Kansas (orig Canisius HS, transferred to FLA to get noticed)
Sam Martin Temple
Nik McMillan UB
Devin Grant UB
Rino Monteforte UB
Rayyan Buell Ohio
Callum Wither Ohio
Alex Heininger CMU
Oumar Conde CMU
Charlie McKee Stonybrook
Daniel Santiago Holy Cross
Kai Colon Princeton
Justin Joly UConn
Moses Walker Rutgers
Kevin Jobity ?
Zion Cruz
Elias Barrett?

Great list Tom. It appears NY puts out more players than is thought but in terms of our recruiting we'd only really survive if we got the top kids consistently. McGee, Jazhion Harris, Kaleb Artis etc. As we know these kids are never coming here. McGee wanted nothing to do with us. CBA Scott kid another example. We'd need some amazing recruiters to pull it off, particularly with the City kids.

We've had success at schools like Erasmus Hall and we did offer Bethea but another kid who's not going to consider us unless we have a personal contact or a raised football profile. Syracuse might as well be a million miles away from the City kids and they all want higher profile programs. The NYC prospects is just such a weird dynamic. Marrone probably did the best down there that I can ever remember even with Mac but the misses were more than the hits even for him.

Some of these NY kids are bit misleading to. Nadame Tucker (Houston) made his mark at JUCO in Kansas. Anthony Smith (Arizona) is from NY but played HS football in Connecticut - Bloomfield I think. Home of Freeney.

 

[CousCuse]

The real issue is that Syracuse as a private school is prohibitively expense to build out a successful walk-on program for local talent. That's historically been a boon for state schools like Kansas State and Iowa. It's a great way to get fliers in the door.

Yes, and that provides the core for those schools. Those players are there to get an education and are going to stay for 4 or 5 years. That's why it seems to me that a portion of the Syracuse roster should be dedicated to those types of recruits, not as walk-ons but with scholarships. AngryOtto started a thread the other day of how many guys recruited make it to their third year, it was shockingly low. It would seem better if Syracuse identified a group of guys based on potential that were going to stay 4 or 5 years and provide depth and maybe some real impact players than to give all the ships to guys whose main focus is playing football and getting playing time.

 

[PhatOrange]

I'm all for recruiting NY hard but I think you have to really balance the time and effort vs the cost. Buford HS in Georgia produced NINE Power 5 kids this year. 9. (Stanford, Pitt, Michigan State, Kansas State, Colorado x2, Boston College, Alabama x2). Plus 3 G5 kids.

That's more than the entire state of NY produced this year.

 

[721Comstock]

I'm all for recruiting NY hard but I think you have to really balance the time and effort vs the cost. Buford HS in Georgia produced NINE Power 5 kids this year. 9. (Stanford, Pitt, Michigan State, Kansas State, Colorado x2, Boston College, Alabama x2). Plus 3 G5 kids.

That's more than the entire state of NY produced this year.

144% THIS. ^^^^

You'd hafta cover the entire state of NY, to hopefully/maybe land 1-2 of the handful of P5 guys.

vs.

In places like NJ, GA, and especially FL, there are dozen of High Schools that produce 100's of P5 level croots, year after year after year.

The CUSE MUST CROOT NEW YORK! crowd would rather we invest our finite resources and time into looking for a needle or 2 in the haystack, vs shooting fish in a barrel?

Give me the barrel, all day, every day, and twice on Saturday.

 

[CousCuse]

I'm all for recruiting NY hard but I think you have to really balance the time and effort vs the cost. Buford HS in Georgia produced NINE Power 5 kids this year. 9. (Stanford, Pitt, Michigan State, Kansas State, Colorado x2, Boston College, Alabama x2). Plus 3 G5 kids.

That's more than the entire state of NY produced this year.

But if you recruit only guys whose focus is playing football and getting playing time, when that doesn't happen they leave to get PT somewhere else. Now, with the portal, they are going to FCS and IVY programs to get guys for depth. Why not recruit some of those guys in the first place and if you do your homework, maybe you get some standout players.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

In CNY, the other issue if a kid plays 2-3 sports and football is one of them and the kid is athletic enough to play P5 Football the odds are he is being recruited to play another sport in college as well. Lacrosse gets bigger, stronger faster every year. Would love to see the size of a D1 attack today versus 35 years ago. What I am saying is, football probably isn't their preferred sport.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I actually started working on a tally of college players from New York for the 2021 season a couple of weeks ago, but lost interest in it. I compiled numbers only, no names, no positions, and I used a player's "hometown" listing on the official roster to determine if he was from NY.

Between the ACC, Big 10, and SEC, there were 70 NY kids on their rosters. Of that number, half of those 70 played for Cuse, Rutgers, or BC. I'd need to drill down by position, but there were a disproportionate number of kickers, long snappers, and punters in that list. I also have little sense if they were walk on or scholarship.

For comparison's sake, Stony Brook had something like 58 players from NY on their roster last season. They were a middling team in a strong FCS conference.

70 players representing 5 (or 6) years of recruiting, covering 3 conferences with Atlantic seaboard connections is... not much to build off of, even if Syracuse could keep them all home.

 

[PhatOrange]

But if you recruit only guys whose focus is playing football and getting playing time, when that doesn't happen they leave to get PT somewhere else. Now, with the portal, they are going to FCS and IVY programs to get guys for depth. Why not recruit some of those guys in the first place and if you do your homework, maybe you get some standout players.

Because these kids who've elevated their games from FCS or Ivy level to Power 5 level are unpredictable. If you could predict that type of potential from a HS kid then you be a gazillionaire. It's impossible. Even so, these are still needles in a haystack. It's not like there are 500 FCS kids transferring up, there's 5 and how many of them are New Yorkers? Zero.

How many UB kids are transferring to power 5 ?

 

[money3189]

But if you recruit only guys whose focus is playing football and getting playing time, when that doesn't happen they leave to get PT somewhere else. Now, with the portal, they are going to FCS and IVY programs to get guys for depth. Why not recruit some of those guys in the first place and if you do your homework, maybe you get some standout players.

The problem is the "maybe" part. Cuse can not afford to take a bunch of mid tier scholarship players and hope to strike gold with some. We all would love to have 60% of the roster to be NYS kids. Its just really risky and the 4 year thing is not what it used to be. Its doesnt matter if its a in state school. These kids want to play early and will transfer in a heart beat if they feel they can play somewhere else. There's a lotmore they are expose to that influences their decisions. I miss the old days too but things evolve and you have to adjust with it.

 

[CousCuse]

I actually started working on a tally of college players from New York for the 2021 season a couple of weeks ago, but lost interest in it. I compiled numbers only, no names, no positions, and I used a player's "hometown" listing on the official roster to determine if he was from NY.

Between the ACC, Big 10, and SEC, there were 70 NY kids on their rosters. Of that number, half of those 70 played for Cuse, Rutgers, or BC. I'd need to drill down by position, but there were a disproportionate number of kickers, long snappers, and punters in that list. I also have little sense if they were walk on or scholarship.

For comparison's sake, Stony Brook had something like 58 players from NY on their roster last season. They were a middling team in a strong FCS conference.

70 players representing 5 (or 6) years of recruiting, covering 3 conferences with Atlantic seaboard connections is... not much to build off of, even if Syracuse could keep them all home.

A big problem for Syracuse has been lack of depth. You need 4th and 5th year players on the team for depth. If a portion of the roster was for guys that will stay for a degree and develop, it would address that.

 

[money3189]

A big problem for Syracuse has been lack of depth. You need 4th and 5th year players on the team for depth. If a portion of the roster was for guys that will stay for a degree and develop, it would address that.

Thats where walk ons will benefit but SU is too expensive. It makes it hard for the middle to lower class athlete to walk on and earn a scholarship.

 

[CousCuse]

The problem is the "maybe" part. Cuse can not afford to take a bunch of mid tier scholarship players and hope to strike gold with some. We all would love to have 60% of the roster to be NYS kids. Its just really risky and the 4 year thing is not what it used to be. Its doesnt matter if its a in state school. These kids want to play early and will transfer in a heart beat if they feel they can play somewhere else. There's a lotmore they are expose to that influences their decisions. I miss the old days too but things evolve and you have to adjust with it.

I think if you take quality guys, like KJ and Elias, they are here for academics and will stay. It is a different approach to evaluating talent based on character factors and potential, but it's not just a crap shoot.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

A big problem for Syracuse has been lack of depth. You need 4th and 5th year players on the team for depth. If a portion of the roster was for guys that will stay for a degree and develop, it would address that.

My stats are just a hard count - they don't account for position or level of contribution.

A team of practice bodies will play on Saturdays in October like a team full of practice bodies.