The All Inclusive NY State Recruiting Thread

[CousCuse]

Thats where walk ons will benefit but SU is too expensive. It makes it hard for the middle to lower class athlete to walk on and earn a scholarship.

That's what I pointed out earlier, Syracuse has to look at a portion of the scholarship roster as developmental/walk-on or else they will always lose guys and lack depth.

 

[SUDadx2]

Thats where walk ons will benefit but SU is too expensive. It makes it hard for the middle to lower class athlete to walk on and earn a scholarship.

Being a private University, I've been told Syracuse does a pretty good job of finding grants and aid to help make the school more affordable for a walk-on.

 

[money3189]

I think if you take quality guys, like KJ and Elias, they are here for academics and will stay. It is a different approach to evaluating talent based on character factors and potential, but it's not just a crap shoot.

Im not sure how you can predict everyone will stay. Everyone's situation is different. They want different things. I work with kids and they change their minds every day lol.

 

[money3189]

That's what I pointed out earlier, Syracuse has to look at a portion of the scholarship roster as developmental/walk-on or else they will always lose guys and lack depth.

Agree.

 

[money3189]

Being a private University, I've been told Syracuse does a pretty good job of finding grants and aid to help make the school more affordable for a walk-on.

I know a bunch of guys that can help SU in some way but I know they can't afford to walk on.

 

[CousCuse]

Im not sure how you can predict everyone will stay. Everyone's situation is different. They want different things. I work with kids and they change their minds every day lol.

First of all you ask them that. If they are focusing on education and a degree, that's a strong signal.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

144% THIS. ^^^^

You'd hafta cover the entire state of NY, to hopefully/maybe land 1-2 of the handful of P5 guys.

vs.

In places like NJ, GA, and especially FL, there are dozen of High Schools that produce 100's of P5 level croots, year after year after year.

The CUSE MUST CROOT NEW YORK! crowd would rather we invest our finite resources and time into looking for a needle or 2 in the haystack, vs shooting fish in a barrel?

Give me the barrel, all day, every day, and twice on Saturday.

Yeah, recruiting is a % game. The individual recruits Syracuse brings in have a lower chance of success than Alabama's, based on a multitude of factors. To stay competitive, Syracuse needs to find as many players as possible with the highest chance of success, and the margins for error to put a competitive team on the field year over year are pretty slim.

To dedicate space to a number of players who are perceived to have a limited chance of success just for the sake of not missing someone is not going to be a successful strategy.

 

[atcar]

Maybe SU doesn't fall under this category, but I do know many private universities off financial assistance to kids which actually brings which actually can actually bring the tuition much closer to that of a state school. Our household does ok $ wise and when we were searching for colleges and what they were willing to offer in terms of merit type scholarships I was quite surprised. Then again there were other private universities who offered virtually nothing.

 

[atcar]

I am not sure what it is like in other states but a the population declines in NYS and school districts combine fb teams just to field a full team, Many high schools have opted to play in the 8 vs 8 format; do you think it is possible that fewer colleges pay attention to those teams? That may impact a kids recruitment unless they are attending camps which have been scaled back for Covid reasons the last couple years, correct? Maybe it like that all over.

 

[CousCuse]

Yeah, recruiting is a % game. The individual recruits Syracuse brings in have a lower chance of success than Alabama's, based on a multitude of factors. To stay competitive, Syracuse needs to find as many players as possible with the highest chance of success, and the margins for error to put a competitive team on the field year over year are pretty slim.

To dedicate space to a number of players who are perceived to have a limited chance of success just for the sake of not missing someone is not going to be a successful strategy.

Smart people don't create investment portfolios based on that, they have a portion that's allocated to volatile new companies that can have explosive growth. The strategy you propose will always net middle of the road returns.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Smart people don't create investment portfolios based on that, they have a portion that's allocated to volatile new companies that can have explosive growth. The strategy you propose will always net middle of the road returns.

Recruiting already is 100% volatility, though.

 

[cusebuzza]

Cuse needs 3-4 local kids a year from Section 3 CNY to PWO. Take the best 3-4 u can find and offer them a PWO, they need kids who appreciate the culture in this city and know the expectations

 

[money3189]

First of all you ask them that. If they are focusing on education and a degree, that's a strong signal.

Of course they will say yes when you ask them that lol. Saying yes and enduring the grind of D1 football and college/personal life for 4 years is two different things. You cant predict how it will go for each kid.

 

[Chip]

Uh, back then Liverpool was an athletic power. I would know. Senior year the football team was number one in the state, George O’Leary was the HC, had multiple d-1 players on it. Four years before pPete Holihan was the QB. JJ Grant and Chris Gedney were to follow in the next couple of years. There was a well established Pop Warner program that almost everyone played in. The last thing Tim Green was was a no name.

Lacrosse was just getting introduced, Soccer wasn’t really a thing. Hockey was very niche. Football was huge.

Best athletes played hoops as well.

Swimming was huge obviously, which was its own year round ecosystem.

Is there still pop warner in CNY, or WNY, Southern Tier, etc?

I always felt like that was the biggest problem. Kids don't start playing until high school, while in other states they've been playing since they were kids.

Maybe it's there and I just don't know. In my little bubble, everything growing up was travel hockey and little league.

 

[PhatOrange]

Is there still pop warner in CNY, or WNY, Southern Tier, etc?

I always felt like that was the biggest problem. Kids don't start playing until high school, while in other states they've been playing since they were kids.

Maybe it's there and I just don't know. In my little bubble, everything growing up was travel hockey and little league.

Yes there is. Pop Warner is still being played. It's pretty big around Albany.

 

[tep624]

The real issue is that Syracuse as a private school is prohibitively expense to build out a successful walk-on program for local talent. That's historically been a boon for state schools like Kansas State and Iowa. It's a great way to get fliers in the door.

This is an exceptionally good point. When I see comments like "UB has 40 NYS kids", did the poster take the time to analyze how many of those are walk-ons vs scholarship players? I doubt it.

For being effectively a flagship football program school, we have a noticeably smaller walk-on program than the state school flagships and it's a very valid point.

 

[orangenauburn]

Is there still pop warner in CNY, or WNY, Southern Tier, etc?

I always felt like that was the biggest problem. Kids don't start playing until high school, while in other states they've been playing since they were kids.

Maybe it's there and I just don't know. In my little bubble, everything growing up was travel hockey and little league.

Yes, but only a few programs are what you would consider well organized, supported, and tied into the high school programs.

 

[PhatOrange]

Yes, but only a few programs are what you would consider well organized, supported, and tied into the high school programs.

good point about tied into high school programs, and in fact, many teams are combining multiple districts to field 1 team.

 

[sutomcat]

Tom I’m putting together a database of all the NYS signees from Rivals data 2002-2022, I should have that done in the coming days. I’m also identifying home state for all Milford Prep and NYS JC kids so I can properly filter them. Many of those from the data I’ve worked through so far were out of state.

Sounds good. I know the numbers of kids I found who got scholarships for 2020 in particular is low in part because a bunch of good players from NYS left to play in states where they had a better chance of playing in the fall, and playing more games.

A bunch went to New Jersey. A few went to Florida. At least one went to Arizona. Pretty sure most of these kids are showing up in the wrong states (at least to my way of thinking).

 

[SUDadx2]

How popular is 7 on 7 football during the off season in NY?

 

[UpstateSM]

I live in New Hartford

UP and Rome do not have any D1 prospects.

They might have some Utica College type kids, but they have nowhere near the potential, size, or talent that other schools in Syracuse area have.

I'd put them towards the bottom of section 3 as far as pure athletes and potential.

UP had a couple sophomores on roster but they didn't do much of anything. They didn't have a playmaker or difference maker.

RFA has a lot of younger players on their roster but they too have shown nothing and are smaller in stature and build.

You can pick almost any other A or AA program and identify someone who could play at a MAC program.

Not trying to pile on, but the football talent in the Utica-Rome / Valley area is probably at an All time low.

The region at one time did have plenty of strong players, but it's glory days are just a memory now.

I graduated a local class B/C school 2015 and Proctor/Notre Dame had some DUDES around that time. It’s sad that none of them played D1 football or basketball.

Rome was way worse but I have a buddy that was an FCS qb for a year out of there. I don’t follow at all anymore but my friends that have family/buddies playing say it’s gotten even worse than it was when I was still playing.

 

[cusebuzza]

How popular is 7 on 7 football during the off season in NY?

Not popular at all, the Baldwinsville’s, CNS’s, and CBA’s all do it through the players. The kids will put it together at local fields through social media. There’s a little bit in the summer between a few schools that’s headed by the coaches, but mostly it’s just tournaments put together by the kids where they call their own plays etc

 

[orangenauburn]

Not popular at all, the Baldwinsville’s, CNS’s, and CBA’s all do it through the players. The kids will put it together at local fields through social media. There’s a little bit in the summer between a few schools that’s headed by the coaches, but mostly it’s just tournaments put together by the kids where they call their own plays etc

Yeah

I know Auburn unofficially does 7v7 in spring and summer, but it's pretty much 100% player intitiated with minimal support or guidance from coaches.

Not sure if it is because it might break some archaic rule NY has

 

[money3189]

How popular is 7 on 7 football during the off season in NY?

The want is there. There just road blocks. There’s other sports that get in the way. Doesn’t allow kids to be available. There’s spring and summer league soccer and lacrosse. Two popular sports on NYS. As far a 7v7’s there’s a NYS tournament that some teams participate in. There's local 7v7 summer leagues. NYS is limited because of the weather. I know Rochester has developmental groups that take kids across the country to compete in tournaments.

 

[PhatOrange]

I don't know of any 7v7 around albany. summer is dominated by lacrosse and baseball. Id imagine soccer to.