The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[tipphill]

Yes. But it goes beyond that.

In my experience no one wants to go to Rutgers period. It's where NJ high schoolers go if that's what they can afford. Or they are almost totally unconcerned about what most people think of as a real college experience.

It's a completely different thing from Michigan, where kids actively want to go to MSU or UM. Or Maryland, where UMCP is a typical college experience.

NJ's biggest export is college students leaving the State. The athletes live in that environment and are influenced by it.

what experience are you referring to? are you referring to football players or students in general. granted many students want an out of state experience.michigan,ohio state and even psu are destination schools for in state as well as alabama, georgia, texas and texes am etc etc. given this what does it say about us? plus the fact that we are a over expensive private, with a lesser ranking than other privates such as duke wake forest northwestern boston college etc. many have the opinion that syracuse is a safety school for wealthy kids that could not get in their first choice--is that true????

 

[Townie72]

what experience are you referring to? are you referring to football players or students in general. granted many students want an out of state experience.michigan,ohio state and even psu are destination schools for in state as well as alabama, georgia, texas and texes am etc etc. given this what does it say about us? plus the fact that we are a over expensive private, with a lesser ranking than other privates such as duke wake forest northwestern boston college etc. many have the opinion that syracuse is a safety school for wealthy kids that could not get in their first choice--is that true????

First, I am referring to the impact on athletes of so many of their non-athletic classmates looking at Rutgers as an "It's all my family could afford" alternative. Scholarship athletes don't have to worry about costs, so why would they select the "budget" alternative? If someone offered to buy you dinner at the restaurant of your choice, would that choice be Denny's?

Well, in my experience there are different groups at SU.

It is, for some, a "safety" school. But there are tens of thousands of kids applying to Ivy schools with no real chance of getting in. So SU isn't a "safety school" in the sense that they had no realistic chance of getting into Cornell or Colgate or Williams.

For another group, SU is the equivalent of the State University that New York hasn't had until recently. That is, if you really want to consider the SUNY schools as State universities like Iowa is a State university. I met lots of people at SU from little towns all across the State, just like you'd meet the same kind of people at PSU from all sorts of little towns in PA, who had family connections to the school. For this group, SU is the de-facto State University of New York.

SU is, in my opinion, a good school with a high price tag. But when you consider the whole picture --- academics, social life, athletics, living conditions, etc --- its fairly priced. And as a private school, students are treated better by every office on campus I was in contact with.

At Rutgers, its different. It's a creature of the State Government. They operate under both NJ State personnel rules and NJ State procurement rules.

The people in Admissions or the Bursurs Office or the Registrars Office or whatever department are exactly like the drones at Motor Vehicles. They are managed the same way. They are paid the same way. And they are incented the same way.

They buy low-bid everything and buy in bulk. The hand soap in the bathrooms is the same soap they have in the prisons.

Rutgers has always been a suitcase college. Every Friday afternoon the lobbies of the dorms are filled with kids with suitcases getting rides home to Bound Brook or Parsippany or where ever to get off one of the worst social scenes on any campus anywhere.

You can get a good education at Rutgers and its a bargain. But a scholarship athlete doesn't have to worry about that.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Comparable to Stanford and Duke.

 

[orange79]

Comparable to Stanford and Duke.

lol - nothing wrong with academics at Rutgers, but Stanford, Duke? Top 10, top 5 in the country? Kudos to him for defending his university, but LOL! Why not Princeton?

 

[crales44]

Comparable to Stanford and Duke.

It is comparable. It's worse.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Off the top of my head, they aren't even better than Michigan or Northwestern in their own conference.

 

[Briancuse]

Off the top of my head, they aren't even better than Michigan or Northwestern in their own conference.

That guy has been hitting the pipe with Rutgersal.

 

[tipphill]

First, I am referring to the impact on athletes of so many of their non-athletic classmates looking at Rutgers as an "It's all my family could afford" alternative. Scholarship athletes don't have to worry about costs, so why would they select the "budget" alternative? If someone offered to buy you dinner at the restaurant of your choice, would that choice be Denny's?

Well, in my experience there are different groups at SU.

It is, for some, a "safety" school. But there are tens of thousands of kids applying to Ivy schools with no real chance of getting in. So SU isn't a "safety school" in the sense that they had no realistic chance of getting into Cornell or Colgate or Williams.

For another group, SU is the equivalent of the State University that New York hasn't had until recently. That is, if you really want to consider the SUNY schools as State universities like Iowa is a State university. I met lots of people at SU from little towns all across the State, just like you'd meet the same kind of people at PSU from all sorts of little towns in PA, who had family connections to the school. For this group, SU is the de-facto State University of New York.

SU is, in my opinion, a good school with a high price tag. But when you consider the whole picture --- academics, social life, athletics, living conditions, etc --- its fairly priced. And as a private school, students are treated better by every office on campus I was in contact with.

At Rutgers, its different. It's a creature of the State Government. They operate under both NJ State personnel rules and NJ State procurement rules.

The people in Admissions or the Bursurs Office or the Registrars Office or whatever department are exactly like the drones at Motor Vehicles. They are managed the same way. They are paid the same way. And they are incented the same way.

They buy low-bid everything and buy in bulk. The hand soap in the bathrooms is the same soap they have in the prisons.

Rutgers has always been a suitcase college. Every Friday afternoon the lobbies of the dorms are filled with kids with suitcases getting rides home to Bound Brook or Parsippany or where ever to get off one of the worst social scenes on any campus anywhere.

You can get a good education at Rutgers and its a bargain. But a scholarship athlete doesn't have to worry about that.

having gone to grad school there i agree with the bursars, and registrars offices analysis. i do believe that su is overpriced for the ranking they have. (undergraduate).i have hopes the new chancellor will repair the damage done by his predecessors, and enhance the law school standing as well. i have no idea re the social scene at ru. years ago it was a commuter based school, i think not as much now but do not know for sure. they seem to have a lot more going on these days. however i do believe su is somewhat of safety school for other than being rejected by an "ivy" or "little ivy". nevertheless i appreciate your well stated response

 

[Hoo's That]

That guy has been hitting the pipe with Rutgersal.

Or has been hit with a lead pipe by Rutgersal.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Frozen]

The Derp-Terp Trophy.

 

[HtownOrange]

The Derp-Twerp Trophy.

Fixed it.

 

[Townie72]

Poor Maryland.

First they have to quit the conference they had been in forever because they couldn't pay their bills. (The State of Maryland didn't allow the AD to dip into the General Funds).

Now --- adding insult to injury --- it is being suggested that their new rival is a school with whom they have zero tradition and which has the worst Athletic Department in any P5. Accompanied by some phony trophy in a desperate attempt to make this seem meaningful.

Maryland is a basketball power. Rutgers is a basketball embarrassment.

Maryland lacrosse is a top program. Rutgers has been a bottom feeder for decades (not withstanding some signs of line this year) Still and all.

Maryland football produced guys like Randy White and Boomer Isaison. Rutgers graduated that famous wife beater (puncher).

The B1G ought to institute a rule that says that no team can use the word "rival" until they have been .500 in the league for four years and actually have played some minimum number of meaningful games.

 

[cuseincincy]

New Trophy:

 

[HtownOrange]

New Trophy:

Is that a marble base of precision cut Jersey sludge?

 

[Briancuse]

New Trophy:

Or they could play for this

 

[TheCusian]

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I was saying. My reply was in response to somebody saying NJ doesn't have enough talent to field a D1 team. I'm just saying why I disagree with that. Who the talent is going to has nothing to do with it. Specifically referencing that NJ has a lot of D1 talent and only one D1 schhol, where as states that produce more talent then NJ have multiple D1 schools in state. Shoot some states produce less and have multiple D1 schools. It makes it easier for an out of state school to get its foot in the door, we need a foot in that door.

This someone was saying that with the quality of kids Rutgers gets (i.e. 2-3*, sans the best kids who go to Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St) - they should probably look elsewhere too.

NJ has a lot of talent for sure - but I like how Babers is casting a wider net to get the kids that best fit his system.

 

[MSOrange]

Rutgers' Darius Hamilton distressed over One Direction breakup

 

[Briancuse]

Rutgers' Darius Hamilton distressed over One Direction breakup

He picked the wrong direction in Rutgers.

 

[721Comstock]

He picked the wrong direction in Rutgers.

Straight down.

 

[Jerseynole8]

First, I am referring to the impact on athletes of so many of their non-athletic classmates looking at Rutgers as an "It's all my family could afford" alternative. Scholarship athletes don't have to worry about costs, so why would they select the "budget" alternative? If someone offered to buy you dinner at the restaurant of your choice, would that choice be Denny's?

Well, in my experience there are different groups at SU.

It is, for some, a "safety" school. But there are tens of thousands of kids applying to Ivy schools with no real chance of getting in. So SU isn't a "safety school" in the sense that they had no realistic chance of getting into Cornell or Colgate or Williams.

For another group, SU is the equivalent of the State University that New York hasn't had until recently. That is, if you really want to consider the SUNY schools as State universities like Iowa is a State university. I met lots of people at SU from little towns all across the State, just like you'd meet the same kind of people at PSU from all sorts of little towns in PA, who had family connections to the school. For this group, SU is the de-facto State University of New York.

SU is, in my opinion, a good school with a high price tag. But when you consider the whole picture --- academics, social life, athletics, living conditions, etc --- its fairly priced. And as a private school, students are treated better by every office on campus I was in contact with.

At Rutgers, its different. It's a creature of the State Government. They operate under both NJ State personnel rules and NJ State procurement rules.

The people in Admissions or the Bursurs Office or the Registrars Office or whatever department are exactly like the drones at Motor Vehicles. They are managed the same way. They are paid the same way. And they are incented the same way.

They buy low-bid everything and buy in bulk. The hand soap in the bathrooms is the same soap they have in the prisons.

Rutgers has always been a suitcase college. Every Friday afternoon the lobbies of the dorms are filled with kids with suitcases getting rides home to Bound Brook or Parsippany or where ever to get off one of the worst social scenes on any campus anywhere.

You can get a good education at Rutgers and its a bargain. But a scholarship athlete doesn't have to worry about that.

I agree about the red tape at RU having gone there for undergrad. And it may have been a suitcase school 20+ years ago but I'm not so sure it is as much as it used to be. The party/social scene is MUCH different now even more than when I was in school in the late 90's. Different type of kid (social media, etc.). Still, you are looking at the RU college experience through the eyes of a NJ resident who lives close by (I'm assuming you are from the Princeton area?) and wanted to get away for school. For students/athletes who go to RU from PA, MD, FL, etc., it's every bit the "college experience" a NJ student who wants to get out of state experiences at an SU or Maryland. Rutgers is centrally located within a tiny state relatively speaking so it's not isolated as much as Syracuse or Penn State. And candidly speaking New Brunswick isn't the college city that Boston (BU, BC, Northeastern) or Philadelphia (Villanova, Temple) is, i get that, but it's not like you're going to Camden or Newark/Irvington or Paterson. I respect the NJ high school student looking to get out of state. I got accepted to Northeastern, Penn State and Maryland. Northeastern wasn't in the best part of the city and I wasn't digging the whole New England scene. PSU and Maryland are great campuses but sports aside, you can get the same education at Rutgers. Having visited grandparents who lived about an hour and a half directly south of State College as a kid I thought central PA was tremendously boring and Maryland didn't have that "southern school" feel of say a Florida State or Clemson. I get it that you guys don't respect RU but calling it the "13th grade" or comparing it to Montclair State and Rowan is a bit of a reach. I visited the Monmouth campus and had friends who went there and THAT felt more like the 13th grade than anything I experienced at Rutgers or even when I took post-bachelors certificate classes at Montclair. Having lived in the mid-west (Chicago) and the south (FL) if I COULD do it differently for undergrad the only place I'd look is a true southern school/Texas. Beautiful campuses and a total different vibe than the northeast.

Even being from the area, I happen to think the NJ high school football talent thing is slightly overrated and agree RU will never compete with NJ talent only. Just as Dino is casting a wider net, so must Ash at RU. But I see what he's doing this year in trying to create a home base and work outward, not the other way around. Will Rutgers get everyone from in state? No, no school gets EVERY good in-state prospect. Will a few top players still leave? Absolutely. But thus far Ash seems to be dialed in and getting these kids to seriously consider RU, something Flood (LOL!) couldn't do even with the backdrop of the Big Ten. Not sure about Ash yet but everything has been positive thus far and the most important thing to me, even though he's a "defensive coach" is that he's getting away from the pro-style offense in favor of a power spread which is much easier to run and recruit to. Only a handful of college teams can run the pro-set effectively at the highest level of competition and Rutgers will never be one of them so when he immediately made that switch I was encouraged. I wish you guys luck and a good season and look forward to seeing Dino's offense when the Seminoles come to The Dome in November.

 

[Finwad32]

I agree about the red tape at RU having gone there for undergrad. And it may have been a suitcase school 20+ years ago but I'm not so sure it is as much as it used to be. The party/social scene is MUCH different now even more than when I was in school in the late 90's. Different type of kid (social media, etc.). Still, you are looking at the RU college experience through the eyes of a NJ resident who lives close by (I'm assuming you are from the Princeton area?) and wanted to get away for school. For students/athletes who go to RU from PA, MD, FL, etc., it's every bit the "college experience" a NJ student who wants to get out of state experiences at an SU or Maryland. Rutgers is centrally located within a tiny state relatively speaking so it's not isolated as much as Syracuse or Penn State. And candidly speaking New Brunswick isn't the college city that Boston (BU, BC, Northeastern) or Philadelphia (Villanova, Temple) is, i get that, but it's not like you're going to Camden or Newark/Irvington or Paterson. I respect the NJ high school student looking to get out of state. I got accepted to Northeastern, Penn State and Maryland. Northeastern wasn't in the best part of the city and I wasn't digging the whole New England scene. PSU and Maryland are great campuses but sports aside, you can get the same education at Rutgers. Having visited grandparents who lived about an hour and a half directly south of State College as a kid I thought central PA was tremendously boring and Maryland didn't have that "southern school" feel of say a Florida State or Clemson. I get it that you guys don't respect RU but calling it the "13th grade" or comparing it to Montclair State and Rowan is a bit of a reach. I visited the Monmouth campus and had friends who went there and THAT felt more like the 13th grade than anything I experienced at Rutgers or even when I took post-bachelors certificate classes at Montclair. Having lived in the mid-west (Chicago) and the south (FL) if I COULD do it differently for undergrad the only place I'd look is a true southern school/Texas. Beautiful campuses and a total different vibe than the northeast.

Even being from the area, I happen to think the NJ high school football talent thing is slightly overrated and agree RU will never compete with NJ talent only. Just as Dino is casting a wider net, so must Ash at RU. But I see what he's doing this year in trying to create a home base and work outward, not the other way around. Will Rutgers get everyone from in state? No, no school gets EVERY good in-state prospect. Will a few top players still leave? Absolutely. But thus far Ash seems to be dialed in and getting these kids to seriously consider RU, something Flood (LOL!) couldn't do even with the backdrop of the Big Ten. Not sure about Ash yet but everything has been positive thus far and the most important thing to me, even though he's a "defensive coach" is that he's getting away from the pro-style offense in favor of a power spread which is much easier to run and recruit to. Only a handful of college teams can run the pro-set effectively at the highest level of competition and Rutgers will never be one of them so when he immediately made that switch I was encouraged. I wish you guys luck and a good season and look forward to seeing Dino's offense when the Seminoles come to The Dome in November.

Thorough and fair response. Come by to post whenever.

The only thing I'll add is I don't believe Rowan and Montclair St. were being compared as institutions of higher learning, but, as the lone competition for football players in NJ, from NJ.

PS - Rutgers still sucks

 

[Townie72]

I agree about the red tape at RU having gone there for undergrad. And it may have been a suitcase school 20+ years ago but I'm not so sure it is as much as it used to be. The party/social scene is MUCH different now even more than when I was in school in the late 90's. Different type of kid (social media, etc.). Still, you are looking at the RU college experience through the eyes of a NJ resident who lives close by (I'm assuming you are from the Princeton area?) and wanted to get away for school. For students/athletes who go to RU from PA, MD, FL, etc., it's every bit the "college experience" a NJ student who wants to get out of state experiences at an SU or Maryland. Rutgers is centrally located within a tiny state relatively speaking so it's not isolated as much as Syracuse or Penn State. And candidly speaking New Brunswick isn't the college city that Boston (BU, BC, Northeastern) or Philadelphia (Villanova, Temple) is, i get that, but it's not like you're going to Camden or Newark/Irvington or Paterson. I respect the NJ high school student looking to get out of state. I got accepted to Northeastern, Penn State and Maryland. Northeastern wasn't in the best part of the city and I wasn't digging the whole New England scene. PSU and Maryland are great campuses but sports aside, you can get the same education at Rutgers. Having visited grandparents who lived about an hour and a half directly south of State College as a kid I thought central PA was tremendously boring and Maryland didn't have that "southern school" feel of say a Florida State or Clemson. I get it that you guys don't respect RU but calling it the "13th grade" or comparing it to Montclair State and Rowan is a bit of a reach. I visited the Monmouth campus and had friends who went there and THAT felt more like the 13th grade than anything I experienced at Rutgers or even when I took post-bachelors certificate classes at Montclair. Having lived in the mid-west (Chicago) and the south (FL) if I COULD do it differently for undergrad the only place I'd look is a true southern school/Texas. Beautiful campuses and a total different vibe than the northeast.

Even being from the area, I happen to think the NJ high school football talent thing is slightly overrated and agree RU will never compete with NJ talent only. Just as Dino is casting a wider net, so must Ash at RU. But I see what he's doing this year in trying to create a home base and work outward, not the other way around. Will Rutgers get everyone from in state? No, no school gets EVERY good in-state prospect. Will a few top players still leave? Absolutely. But thus far Ash seems to be dialed in and getting these kids to seriously consider RU, something Flood (LOL!) couldn't do even with the backdrop of the Big Ten. Not sure about Ash yet but everything has been positive thus far and the most important thing to me, even though he's a "defensive coach" is that he's getting away from the pro-style offense in favor of a power spread which is much easier to run and recruit to. Only a handful of college teams can run the pro-set effectively at the highest level of competition and Rutgers will never be one of them so when he immediately made that switch I was encouraged. I wish you guys luck and a good season and look forward to seeing Dino's offense when the Seminoles come to The Dome in November.

I'll stick by my story. Rutgers for decades and decades has been the no-frills place to go to get a reasonably good education for a bargain price for New Jerseyans. Athletes, who don't pay, have no reason to select the bargain alternative. They can go to the real Nordstroms not Nordstroms Rack because someone else is paying.

Those NJ residents who can afford to go somewhere else, frequently do.

I'm a fourth generation Princeton Borough townie and we never went to New Brunswick or Trenton either. Both are dumps. And please, spare us the "It's not as bad as it used to be".

We have heard all this before.

Can RU football get better? Or basketball? I really don't understand why even being average has been such a struggle. It must be something in RU's DNA.

But as an ex-New Jerseyan let me assure you of one thing. The State will only support big winners. They'll be curious if RU starts to improve. But that curiosity will die quickly once the novelty wears off. RU as an average B1G team won't draw flies.

In my opinion, it's located in a terrible place, New Brunswick. For a college student it's light years from NYC where you can't afford to go anyway.

And RU as a B1G school is a complete pipe dream. It'll never be even a Michigan State. You can put a BMW emblem on a Taurus and call it a BMW and even sell it in a BMW dealership, But its still a Taurus.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Jerseynole8]

I'll stick by my story. Rutgers for decades and decades has been the no-frills place to go to get a reasonably good education for a bargain price for New Jerseyans. Athletes, who don't pay, have no reason to select the bargain alternative. They can go to the real Nordstroms not Nordstroms Rack because someone else is paying.

Those NJ residents who can afford to go somewhere else, frequently do.

I'm a fourth generation Princeton Borough townie and we never went to New Brunswick or Trenton either. Both are dumps. And please, spare us the "It's not as bad as it used to be".

We have heard all this before.

Can RU football get better? Or basketball? I really don't understand why even being average has been such a struggle. It must be something in RU's DNA.

But as an ex-New Jerseyan let me assure you of one thing. The State will only support big winners. They'll be curious if RU starts to improve. But that curiosity will die quickly once the novelty wears off. RU as an average B1G team won't draw flies.

In my opinion, it's located in a terrible place, New Brunswick. For a college student it's light years from NYC where you can't afford to go anyway.

And RU as a B1G school is a complete pipe dream. It'll never be even a Michigan State. You can put a BMW emblem on a Taurus and call it a BMW and even sell it in a BMW dealership, But its still a Taurus.

When I said "it's not as bad as it used to be" I'm speaking in terms of Rutgers being a "suitcase college" not about how nice/dumpy the city of New Brunswick is. Why has even being average been such a struggle? Up until the entrance into the Big Ten there were faculty, major donors/boosters and others who longed for the days of Rutgers being a 1-AA playing Lehigh, Princeton and Lafayette. When you don't have alignment within the university in how you are going to approach/invest in athletics, how can you expect to have sustained success in that arena? Because of this division, RU did not start seriously investing in athletics like a P5 school until the new millennium. Since then, I'd say football has been average. Nothing special, but nothing like the Terry Shea days which sadly I saw first hand as a student and which RU football also seems to be perceived by historically.

Basketball was respectable but unremarkable during my years on The Banks, kind of how the football program is now. I personally don't care about basketball (despite having been a very good HS player myself) but I agree it's really hard to be this bad in basketball. It's easy to suck in football...a lot goes into a program becoming and staying competitive at the D1 level. But being this kind of embarrassment in hoops, especially at an eastern school who has a Final Four appearance in it's history, is mind boggling.

I think in addition to lack of alignment, Rutgers has suffered from poor leadership. Bob Mulchahy had the political ties but no previous experience working in a university or an athletic department. Pernetti as AD was a complete joke. Hermann was qualified and would probably do fine taking over at a rural school that already has a strong athletic department in place but she was not for RU and this media market. Hobbs did OK with SHU basketball even as an interim AD at a small private school so I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the Pikiell hire. He definitely has the political ties within the state in addition to experience being an administrator in higher education and he also has the B1G as his platform so I'm interested to see what impact he will make.

You can say "Rutgers will never be even a Michigan State", that's your opinion and I respect it. I also heard 16 years ago from naysayers that RU will never be competitive in football or put a lot of notable players into the NFL but they were proven wrong. I also heard that the Big Ten would "never invite Rutgers" in the first place and again, those people were proven wrong. I know the mindset of the NJ private/parochial/elite types very well and I understand why they are tired of reading/hearing about Rutgers athletics. And I know first hand how RU is perceived down at Florida State, LSU, etc. But "never" is a very, very long time.