The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[orangefog]

If I am the Big Ten, I am sending someone to Pisscataway to oversee all future tweets. And I am taking a closer look at their contract to see if there are any easy outs.

 

[Stern]

Official definitions of rival:

a person or thing that tries to defeat or be more successful than another
something or someone that is as good or almost as good as another person or thing
one striving for competitive advantage
one of two or more striving to reach or obtain something that only one can possess

Over the past 2 decades we are 9-8 against them. That's 20 freaking years. a 1/4 of our fanbase grew up watching them overtake us, smear our names, laugh at us while we were down, etc. We share recruiting territory. Our fanbases have genuine disdain for each other. I know it's hard for some of the older posters to see this. They see the old rivalry with PSU and think that is what a rivalry is. Yeah it was one helluva rivalry. But as long as they keep throwing poop at us and we keep peeing in their Kool-aid, I don't think it's fair to say they aren't. 20 years is a long time to be barely over .500 against a team. They don't have our history but they are currently on the same level we are and you are absolutely fooling yourselves to think otherwise. Freaking Meyer told Ash that Piscataway was the better job! I'm 42 years old and hate Rutgers more than any other team we've played in recent history. And I'm not alone.

Just because you and a few others don't like them it doesn't make Rutgers a rival. They are not a rival of SU, never have been and never will be. At best (or worst depending on how you look at it) it's a manufactured rivalry for some on 2 message boards totaling a couple hundred people and even that is stretching things to call it a rivalry.

It's not like back in the day (and by that I mean last 10 years) when Rutgers came to town the Dome was sold out and the game was anticipated. And vice-versa, when SU went to Rutgers plenty of seats were available and it was the furthest thing from a rivalry. I have come to accept that these days we live in this "ESPN Culture" where "hype" is greater than "substance." Every game is the biggest game, every moment is the greatest moment, every play is the most spectacular play ever, and every little dig or smack talk is the birth of a new rivalry. When in reality it just isn't.

A lot of Syracuse fans HATE Notre Dame, that doesn't make Notre Dame the rival of Syracuse. Just because a bunch of message board posters hate Rutgers doesn't make it a rivalry. Your "every day fan of Syracuse or Rutgers" who isn't on a message board daily/weekly doesn't think about the opposing school at all for 365 days. A few die hards do but again, that doesn't make it a rivalry.

 

[Pyle]

Just because you and a few others don't like them it doesn't make Rutgers a rival. They are not a rival of SU, never have been and never will be. At best (or worst depending on how you look at it) it's a manufactured rivalry for some on 2 message boards totaling a couple hundred people and even that is stretching things to call it a rivalry.

It's not like back in the day (and by that I mean last 10 years) when Rutgers came to town the Dome was sold out and the game was anticipated. And vice-versa, when SU went to Rutgers plenty of seats were available and it was the furthest thing from a rivalry. I have come to accept that these days we live in this "ESPN Culture" where "hype" is greater than "substance." Every game is the biggest game, every moment is the greatest moment, every play is the most spectacular play ever, and every little dig or smack talk is the birth of a new rivalry. When in reality it just isn't.

A lot of Syracuse fans HATE Notre Dame, that doesn't make Notre Dame the rival of Syracuse. Just because a bunch of message board posters hate Rutgers doesn't make it a rivalry. Your "every day fan of Syracuse or Rutgers" who isn't on a message board daily/weekly doesn't think about the opposing school at all for 365 days. A few die hards do but again, that doesn't make it a rivalry.

I've heard this message board argument thing and let's examine that a bit shall we? We live in a digital age, I work at a college and I can tell you that the world is digital everything, just saying a few people on a message board is like saying Rio is a little bit dirty. I think the number of fans in both places that look down at the other school is much larger than you think. There is no back in the day that the dome sold out to anybody in recent history except the legions of PSU fans that came to watch them annihilate us. You don't fill the dome with mediocre football, and that is where this thing came from in the first place. The incoming class of frosh recruits wasn't even alive when McNabb beat Michigan. That isn't our current identity in the real world. We are the post-P team fighting with the Girls for NJ's 3 star recruits while PSU/Mich/etc come get the best. I love SU football but I'm not blind to current status of our program or what schools we are recruiting against, struggling to beat, and getting laughed at by.

 

[Whitey23]

 

[Pyle]

Ash looks like Grob part duh. They are so not ready to get on that plane. Go to the 3rd slide and watch the presser.

10 takeaways from Rutgers: 'It's all going to be perfect' deadpans Chris Ash

 

[Stern]

I've heard this message board argument thing and let's examine that a bit shall we? We live in a digital age, I work at a college and I can tell you that the world is digital everything, just saying a few people on a message board is like saying Rio is a little bit dirty. I think the number of fans in both places that look down at the other school is much larger than you think. .

1) Just because you recruit against a school for players in a region doesn't make you a rival of that school. You compete against them for sure, but not a rivalry. Rivalry's are created ON THE FIELD. What is that water-shed moment where Rutgers beat SU and it cost SU something big? Or SU beat Rutgers and it cost them something big? Or that big play in that big game that had meaning that will be talked about for the next 75 years? There isn't one, hence its not a rivalry.

2) The Dome on average gets 40,000 for a football game these days. How many of those fans do you think know about or post on this message board consistently year round (or post on any Syracuse message board where this is even still a topic?) A few hundred...maybe. If it's even that high? I mean the number of this "digital age" you talk about is so small compared to the vast majority of fans who go to games and who don't have a clue about this website (or websites like it) and have this ever dying hate towards Rutgers like you think so many have is tiny. And vice-versa its the same for Rutgers on their end.

 

[Scooch]

Ummm...they played in the NCAA Final Four in 1976. Which for frame of reference was long after Syracuse's football NC and Jim Brown. While they have no tradition at the Major College Football level (they do in the northeast region "FCS" level), they did have some success/tradition in basketball in the 70's and 80's. Was it on par with SU's basketball? Of course not. But like Townie says, it's really mind blowing how bad their basketball program has become. It's easy to suck in football. It's very hard to be this bad in basketball, especially when you are located in a fertile recruiting area and have a decent (not great) hoops history. Facilities is a lame excuse. When Calipari got to UMASS, they had a rotary dial phone in the office and played in a facility that resembled a CYO gymnasium. Rutgers Athletic Department has just been woefully inept since they jumped to the Big East.

Syracuse's Pinstripe Bowl victories are MUCH more impressive than anything Rutgers basketball has done in 40 years.

 

[sufandu]

Semantics. They say the same thing even in the same situation you brought up. Both sides have a deep disdain for one another and go out of their wait to paint the opposing school in a negative light whenever and how ever they can. We both share a fertile recruiting ground, alumnus who grew up in the same region, have a lot of alumnus who work in said region and both AD's try to take claim on the same city.

Our disdain is not deep, it is recent. If the Internet existed 25 years ago the only threads about Rutgers would have been about how many td's we'd win by or what record would be set against them.

 

[CousCuse]

Need a poll at .com , that would give some semi-valid data point .

 

[Pyle]

1) Just because you recruit against a school for players in a region doesn't make you a rival of that school. You compete against them for sure, but not a rivalry. Rivalry's are created ON THE FIELD. What is that water-shed moment where Rutgers beat SU and it cost SU something big? Or SU beat Rutgers and it cost them something big? Or that big play in that big game that had meaning that will be talked about for the next 75 years? There isn't one, hence its not a rivalry.

2) The Dome on average gets 40,000 for a football game these days. How many of those fans do you think know about or post on this message board consistently year round (or post on any Syracuse message board where this is even still a topic?) A few hundred...maybe. If it's even that high? I mean the number of this "digital age" you talk about is so small compared to the vast majority of fans who go to games and who don't have a clue about this website (or websites like it) and have this ever dying hate towards Rutgers like you think so many have is tiny. And vice-versa its the same for Rutgers on their end.

Our loss to them in 2011 cost us a bowl game and our loss to them in 2012 cost us a BCS game. That counts for something in my book.

 

[Pyle]

Our disdain is not deep, it is recent. If the Internet existed 25 years ago the only threads about Rutgers would have been about how many td's we'd win by or what record would be set against them.

25 years ago the Soviet Union still existed. We were just learning about Saddam Hussein. Kurt Cobain was still alive. And P just inherited the program from Coach Mac. That's not recent.

Let me just say, I'm not trying to convince you older fans who remember Archbold, the rivalry with PSU, Guys flying around a brand new dome wearing half-shirts, but at the same time, I think there should be a nod to the new generation that can't stand that garbage heap in red, at least to the point where we don't have to hear about how it's not a rival because we have so much more history than them. Turkey has more history than the US but we are still a better nation. History isn't everything.

 

[sufandu]

25 years ago the Soviet Union still existed. We were just learning about Saddam Hussein. Kurt Cobain was still alive. And P just inherited the program from Coach Mac. That's not recent.

Let me just say, I'm not trying to convince you older fans who remember Archbold, the rivalry with PSU, Guys flying around a brand new dome wearing half-shirts, but at the same time, I think there should be a nod to the new generation that can't stand that garbage heap in red, at least to the point where we don't have to hear about how it's not a rival because we have so much more history than them. Turkey has more history than the US but we are still a better nation. History isn't everything.

Haha, how old do you think I am? I'm not even 40 and barely remember coach MAC as our coach. They have never been a rival and are not now. They sucker punched us when we were down, that's all. My only interest in anything NJ is as a recruiting territory for us.

 

[Stern]

Haha, how old do you think I am? I'm not even 40 and barely remember coach MAC as our coach. They have never been a rival and are not now. They sucker punched us when we were down, that's all. My only interest in anything NJ is as a recruiting territory for us.

Um, we lost to Cincy after we lost to Rutgers. Is Cincy our rival because that lost cost us a BCS game technically.

. History isn't everything.

History is everything when you are trying to sell a point on who is and who isn't your rival.

 

[TheCusian]

Um, we lost to Cincy after we lost to Rutgers. Is Cincy our rival because that lost cost us a BCS game technically.

We played Rutgers 43 times, Cincinnati 13

So no

 

[Pyle]

Haha, how old do you think I am? I'm not even 40 and barely remember coach MAC as our coach. They have never been a rival and are not now. They sucker punched us when we were down, that's all. My only interest in anything NJ is as a recruiting territory for us.

Soooooo yoda you are not? Oops. I guess it's pointless now anyway. Even IF we did, or didn't, fact is Flood didn't have the balls to play us and chickened out. They are nowhere on our upcoming schedule and i'm guessing at this point, they probably won't be. If you're not even playing each other then it doesn't really matter. I still can't stand them though.

 

[Pyle]

Um, we lost to Cincy after we lost to Rutgers. Is Cincy our rival because that lost cost us a BCS game technically.


History is everything when you are trying to sell a point on who is and who isn't your rival.

Tell that to all the Colgate fans not coming to the game. That was a rivalry right? Recent history vs ancient history. I go back to my last point, doesn't matter anymore, Flood was a feline who backed out and they are now leaving gifts for Harbaugh. I have a lot of old feeling towards their program but there really isn't anything left to fuel the fire. I hope they rot in red.

 

[TexanMark]

Sorry Rutgirls is a rival

Geographically Close YES
Hate The FanBase YES
Feel Superior to them YES
Want to see them go 0-12 YES

 

[sufandu]

Our loss to them in 2011 cost us a bowl game and our loss to them in 2012 cost us a BCS game. That counts for something in my book.

It's not like either of those would've meant much. A BCS invite from the weakest conference in the country so we could get our brains beat in by an elite and a scrape by bowl game. Losing to Miami and beating VaTech meant a lot more. Beating WVU during the Marrone years meant more because of the history.

 

[Scooch]

Sorry Rutgirls is a rival

Geographically Close YES
Hate The FanBase YES
Feel Superior to them YES
Want to see them go 0-12 YES

Counterpoint: They're not really a rival. They once were a conference rival. Now they're just a team in our recruiting territory, like Maryland.

So, to me...

Geographically Close YES
Hate The FanBase EH, WHO CARES?
Feel Superior to them SURE
Want to see them go 0-12 EH, WHO CARES?

 

[TexanMark]

Rutgirls taking credit for players at other schools.

 

[Frozen]

Rutgirls taking credit for players at other schools.

Who are you? Cali?

 

[OrangeDW]

Rutgirls taking credit for players at other schools.

Wow, that's pathetic. Reading the comments and replies...people are destroying that on Twitter, and rightfully so.

 

[CanadianSU]

Counterpoint: They're not really a rival. They once were a conference rival. Now they're just a team in our recruiting territory, like Maryland.

So, to me...

Geographically Close YES
Hate The FanBase EH, WHO CARES?
Feel Superior to them SURE
Want to see them go 0-12 EH, WHO CARES?

cmon. anyone would love to see them go 0-12.

 

[CanadianSU]

Sorry Rutgirls is a rival

Geographically Close YES
Hate The FanBase YES
Feel Superior to them YES
Want to see them go 0-12 YES

189 page thread on them...

Nope ! Not a rival !

 

[tipphill]

SU's attendance problems have nothing to do with Rutger's.

Do you remember what RU's attendance was for decades prior to 2005/06 including many years in the Big East? It was 20,000. SU attendance might have been that low during some years during the Maloney years, but 20K was the RU base for decades.

The run up of attendance and interest wasn't based on Rutger's new found excellence. It was based on the novelty of this long, long term doormat actually becoming competitive. Unfortunately for them RU after 2006 they never got any better and Schiano left town and cashed in before the bills came due on the outrageous BS he was pedaling about NC's and proximity to NYC came due.

Schiano and Mulcahy sold recruits a bill of goods based on lies and some the locals (of which there are millions) bought into it. These were people who couldn't get and probably couldn't afford Giants / Jets tickets trying to get in on the ground floor. And there were RU alums that for many years had wondered why their school's athletic programs were so unsuccessful and were generally the laughingstock of college sports.

Longer term, I firmly believe, that RU has to be highly successful to keep fan interest. That's just the way the New Jerseyans are. And that isn't going to happen. And once the nose of that plane falls below the horizon ...

Rutgers is forever snake bit. Just look at the basketball program. How hard would it be to have a competitive basketball program in a major conference --- Big East or Big Ten --- in the middle of New Jersey?

first off, i never said our attendance problems were in any way related to rutgers, you say that. you stated some truths in your response, and provided conjecture in most of what u said."thats the way new jerseyans are" is also the way many syracuse fans are, so take off your glasses. how or even why u introduce giants and jets into this is beyond me but while u are at it throw in eagles for the south jersey folks. what u said re the growth in attendance is true. there is no denying, that their rise resulted in us being shut out of nj recruiting. as far as schiano goes he as you say bs. as far as mulcahy goes, he was masterful bs artist who got facilities upgrades and new stadium (while we invested in nothing) was a former ceo at the meadowlands, and politically connected . had he been big east commissioner, there would be a strong big east conference today. say what u want the guy got things done. he also fell on sword later for ru. u should read about him.
rutgers fan base is juvenile, ignorant for the most part-----ru alums for the most part, liked the small time sched that they played and did not wonder at all as you say. the newer alums of the late 70's began to push for a bigger scheduel.