The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[Townie72]

first off, i never said our attendance problems were in any way related to rutgers, you say that. you stated some truths in your response, and provided conjecture in most of what u said."thats the way new jerseyans are" is also the way many syracuse fans are, so take off your glasses. how or even why u introduce giants and jets into this is beyond me but while u are at it throw in eagles for the south jersey folks. what u said re the growth in attendance is true. there is no denying, that their rise resulted in us being shut out of nj recruiting. as far as schiano goes he as you say bs. as far as mulcahy goes, he was masterful bs artist who got facilities upgrades and new stadium (while we invested in nothing) was a former ceo at the meadowlands, and politically connected . had he been big east commissioner, there would be a strong big east conference today. say what u want the guy got things done. he also fell on sword later for ru. u should read about him.
rutgers fan base is juvenile, ignorant for the most part-----ru alums for the most part, liked the small time sched that they played and did not wonder at all as you say. the newer alums of the late 70's began to push for a bigger scheduel.

First of all, how about some paragraphs.

You are right. Mulcahy was the architect and creator of the RU football program. He's the one who had the idea. He's the one that spent the money. He's the one who hired Schiano. It was all one guy's dream. No one in NJ wanted a big time football program at Rutgers.

Schiano was a below-average bench coach and a shameless liar as a recruiter. He failed miserably in the Pros and is now back where he belongs as a coordinator.

Mulcahy was fired for cause. He spent recklessly and without accountability and cut secret deals. He was a crook and deserved to be fired.

Rutgers Athletic program steals $26 Million a year from students as it dips into the General Fund and charges Student Fees for an athletic program the students certainly wouldn't voluntarily support. They are the victims of Mulcahy's pursuit of his dream.

Sure, the CNY locals would better support a winning team. But you don't get the New Jersey ethic. It's a matter of degree. It's a Pro-oriented sports environment that really only cares about big winners. That's why the State University of NJ drew 20,000 fan against powerhouse Miami teams, VT with Vick and SU with McNabb.

When Princeton had Bill Bradley the whole State seemed to be Tiger fans. The day after Bradley left, no one cared about Princeton athletics a whit. (Bradley parlayed that and his time with the Knicks into a Senate seat.)

 

[TheCusian]

First of all, how about some paragraphs. You are right. Mulcahy was the architect and creator of the RU football program. He's the one who had the idea. He's the one that spent the money. He's the one who hired Schiano. It was all one guy's dream. No one in NJ wanted a big time football program at Rutgers. Schiano was a below-average bench coach and a shameless liar as a recruiter. He failed miserably in the Pros and is now back where he belongs as a coordinator. Mulcahy was fired for cause. He spent recklessly and without accountability and cut secret deals. He was a crook and deserved to be fired. Rutgers Athletic program steals $26 Million a year from students as it dips into the General Fund and charges Student Fees for an athletic program the students certainly wouldn't voluntarily support. They are the victims of Mulcahy's pursuit of his dream. Sure, the CNY locals would better support a winning team. But you don't get the New Jersey ethic. It's a matter of degree. It's a Pro-oriented sports environment that really only cares about big winners. That's why the State University of NJ drew 20,000 fan against powerhouse Miami teams, VT with Vick and SU with McNabb. When Princeton had Bill Bradley the whole State seemed to be Tiger fans. The day after Bradley left, no one cared about Princeton athletics a whit. (Bradley parlayed that and his time with the Knicks into a Senate seat.)

You sure do know a lot about our not-rival

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

The way I see it there is enough OCD by both fan bases about the other's program. I say we do it and leave it on the field. It'll be fun. At least the forums will be guaranteed to have hyperactivity discussing the games, the coulda, woulda, shoulda, etc.

(Personally, would rather schedule other P5 programs)

 

[Townie72]

You sure do know a lot about our not-rival

I know a lot about a lot of things.

That doesn't make Rutgers an SU rival. And anyone that thinks it does doesn't have a clear understanding of what a rival is.

Here's a test for you.

List the things two schools have to have to be considered "Rivals"

Then we will compare your list to the SU - RU and see if it passes muster.

 

[Briancuse]

I know a lot about a lot of things.

That doesn't make Rutgers an SU rival. And anyone that thinks it does doesn't have a clear understanding of what a rival is.

Here's a test for you.

List the things two schools have to have to be considered "Rivals"

Then we will compare your list to the SU - RU and see if it passes muster.

Part of the rivalry is the players having animosity for the other team, no one on our football team or basketball team give a rats you know what about rutgirls.

 

[Delmar]

The fascination this board has with Rutgers eludes me. They play in another conference. Why would we want to build a rivalry with them? I don't get it.

A few close games, a few disputed calls by referees, will build up a good animus between SU and one of our ACC rivals. It will take a little time, but it will happen.

 

[tipphill]

First of all, how about some paragraphs.

You are right. Mulcahy was the architect and creator of the RU football program. He's the one who had the idea. He's the one that spent the money. He's the one who hired Schiano. It was all one guy's dream. No one in NJ wanted a big time football program at Rutgers.

Schiano was a below-average bench coach and a shameless liar as a recruiter. He failed miserably in the Pros and is now back where he belongs as a coordinator.

Mulcahy was fired for cause. He spent recklessly and without accountability and cut secret deals. He was a crook and deserved to be fired.

Rutgers Athletic program steals $26 Million a year from students as it dips into the General Fund and charges Student Fees for an athletic program the students certainly wouldn't voluntarily support. They are the victims of Mulcahy's pursuit of his dream.

Sure, the CNY locals would better support a winning team. But you don't get the New Jersey ethic. It's a matter of degree. It's a Pro-oriented sports environment that really only cares about big winners. That's why the State University of NJ drew 20,000 fan against powerhouse Miami teams, VT with Vick and SU with McNabb.

When Princeton had Bill Bradley the whole State seemed to be Tiger fans. The day after Bradley left, no one cared about Princeton athletics a whit. (Bradley parlayed that and his time with the Knicks into a Senate seat.)

paragraph. paragraph paragraph
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[Townie72]

Part of the rivalry is the players having animosity for the other team, no one on our football team or basketball team give a rats you know what about rutgirls.

Sure its "part". But not the most important part by a mile.

Meaningful games. Contested outcomes. Villains. Heros. History. etc.

Think SU vs. Georgetown.

Disdain isn't nearly enough.

Again, if you are unclear in your mind as to what constitutes a "rivalry", you are more likely to misidentify one.

 

[Moontan]

But why do we get so much pleasure from their misfortune? We don't act this way about UCONN, VT, WV, Miami, Pitt, PSU, or anyone else.

I would argue that some do regarding Yukon.

The only rivalry there was in men's hoops in the latter half of the Big East. Like Georgetown, that too is/will-be a thing of the past, along with St. John's. Part of those rivalries were related to the coaches at the time.

Time for SU to regularly start beating some of the powers in the ACC. Rivalries may develop there.

 

[TheCusian]

I know a lot about a lot of things. That doesn't make Rutgers an SU rival. And anyone that thinks it does doesn't have a clear understanding of what a rival is. Here's a test for you. List the things two schools have to have to be considered "Rivals" Then we will compare your list to the SU - RU and see if it passes muster.

Was just busting on you. I don't think they are our rival, nor do I care to argue about it again. I was just finding it funny how in depth your dislike for them is and found it interesting to juxtapose that with your vehement argument that they are not a rival.

As I said a few pages ago: they can just be a team we hate. I'm cool with that.

(I think NC State has some potential. Let me know so I can be sure to identify them correctly.)

 

[TheCusian]

Sure its "part". But not the most important part by a mile. Meaningful games. Contested outcomes. Villains. Heros. History. etc. Think SU vs. Georgetown. Disdain isn't nearly enough. Again, if you are unclear in your mind as to what constitutes a "rivalry", you are more likely to misidentify one.

Not to quibble, but you could make the case that if Schiano had stayed there and we played them every year - some if not all of those things might be true.

I'd be willing to bet that there are younger Syracuse fans that see Schiano as a bigger villain than John Thompson (either of them).

In any regard, the thing that absolutely must be true is that the teams need to play each other to be a rivalry game. Thank goodness for Georgetown being back on the schedule. Wouldn't want them to become Colgate

 

[kcsu]

How can you have a rivalry with a team you have pretty much destroyed in football and basketball forever

 

[Pyle]

How can you have a rivalry with a team you have pretty much destroyed in football and basketball forever

9-8 over the past 20 years. It's not 1991 anymore. They even beat our 2012 team which most proclaim to be the best team since 2001.

 

[Townie72]

Not to quibble, but you could make the case that if Schiano had stayed there and we played them every year - some if not all of those things might be true.

I'd be willing to bet that there are younger Syracuse fans that see Schiano as a bigger villain than John Thompson (either of them).

In any regard, the thing that absolutely must be true is that the teams need to play each other to be a rivalry game. Thank goodness for Georgetown being back on the schedule. Wouldn't want them to become Colgate

I'd say we disagree on just about everything.

For example, playing Georgetown out of conference isn't a real rivalry game. It's a money grab and a meaningless game (except to the extent it affects NCAA seeding).

It's a nostalgia tour for the gullible.

 

[TheCusian]

I'd say we disagree on just about everything. For example, playing Georgetown out of conference isn't a real rivalry game. It's a money grab and a meaningless game (except to the extent it affects NCAA seeding). It's a nostalgia tour for the gullible.

What? Your idea of rival is so narrow you must only formally recognize like 3.

Sports are fun. Have fun. Being the arbiter of "what is a rival" seems like life-sucking horribleness. There is gray area between "Townie72's authenticated rival ©" and "they are a bunch of clowns whom I hope lose" ...

 

[SU2NASA]

The fascination this board has with Rutgers eludes me. They play in another conference. Why would we want to build a rivalry with them? I don't get it.

A few close games, a few disputed calls by referees, will build up a good animus between SU and one of our ACC rivals. It will take a little time, but it will happen.

That's our rival. Diamond Ferri agrees.

 

[Townie72]

What? Your idea of rival is so narrow you must only formally recognize like 3.

Sports are fun. Have fun. Being the arbiter of "what is a rival" seems like life-sucking horribleness. There is gray area between "Townie72's authenticated rival ©" and "they are a bunch of clowns whom I hope lose" ...

Language requires disciplined thinking. Words like "rivalry" become meaningless when they are used to describe everything.

Is LeMoyne a basketball rival? We play them in exhibition games. People --- especially the Le Moyne people --- get worked up.

Everyone draws the line somewhere.

 

[Pyle]

Language requires disciplined thinking. Words like "rivalry" become meaningless when they are used to describe everything.

Is LeMoyne a basketball rival? We play them in exhibition games. People --- especially the Le Moyne people --- get worked up.

Everyone draws the line somewhere.

lmao@lemoyne reference as I work there. Honestly at this point I feel like there's valid points on both sides. We have history with them, we don't like them, they don't like us, there's some honest hatred towards them from some of our fanbase. But your point about GT is completely valid. That game was a meaningless money grab and had less emotion for me than the Duke games did. With Rutgers, I still hate them, their fans are delusional, the AthDept is a joke, and I can't stand that they built their glass empire on the heels of our demise, Ray Rice being the tipping point. Buuuuuuut at this point, we haven't played them since 2012. We are in different conferences. We've had a head coach come and go and there is no signs of playing them in the future. Anything that was or wasn't at this point is dead. You have to actually play each other for it to matter.

 

[Pyle]

That's our rival. Diamond Ferri agrees.

I feel like we should dislike them more, but we don't. Why not? They even pulled that whole 'solidarity' crap with the old BE while they were cutting deals behind our backs.

 

[TheCusian]

Language requires disciplined thinking. Words like "rivalry" become meaningless when they are used to describe everything.

Is LeMoyne a basketball rival? We play them in exhibition games. People --- especially the Le Moyne people --- get worked up.

Everyone draws the line somewhere.

1. I already said I don't consider them a rival, IMHO
2. I already said there is gray area that this exists in, which I think means I agree with you
3. Your example is silly. We don't play them a lot, we've only lost once in exhibition games, no one hates them.
4. While language requires disciplined thinking and words become meaningless when used to describe everything (which should be noted, not one person here has even remotely suggested) - we can argue over the degrees to which a team fits the agreed upon definition without questioning their ability to understand the word itself.
5. Your take here is that you are the sole arbiter of where that line is drawn is silly. People can disagree. Especially about sports rivalries. One of the central pillars of the modern day ESPN is built on this kind of arguing of semantics (see: First Take).
6. This is the last thing I'll say about Rutgers as a rival and it's something we can all agree: They suck.

 

[SU2NASA]

I feel like we should dislike them more, but we don't. Why not? They even pulled that whole 'solidarity' crap with the old BE while they were cutting deals behind our backs.

I think it's that they've never won anything, they don't recruit against us, and they have a craptastic fanbase.

 

[Townie72]

I feel like we should dislike them more, but we don't. Why not? They even pulled that whole 'solidarity' crap with the old BE while they were cutting deals behind our backs.

Not technically true according to Fr. Leahy. That so-called commitment to the Big East was conditional. I tend to believe Jesuit priests in their pronouncements and as a Le Moyne employee I would expect you to also. Not because you are an employee but because you have some familiarity with the Jesuits.

And we were all set to go to the ACC too at that time after having entertained the ACC Selection Committee's tour of our facilities and having laid out the good china for them. The Gov. of Va queered that deal.

So the SU fan base "shock and horror" at BC bolting has always seemed to me to be both feigned and silly.

 

[Pyle]

Not technically true according to Fr. Leahy. That so-called commitment to the Big East was conditional. I tend to believe Jesuit priests in their pronouncements and as a Le Moyne employee I would expect you to also. Not because you are an employee but because you have some familiarity with the Jesuits.

And we were all set to go to the ACC too at that time after having entertained the ACC Selection Committee's tour of our facilities and having laid out the good china for them. The Gov. of Va queered that deal.

So the SU fan base "shock and horror" at BC bolting has always seemed to me to be both feigned and silly.

Agree about the Jesuits. As for the shock and horror, i see what you're saying and it was more the product of jealousy and envy as we watched our rival go to the promised land and we got UCONN in their place.

 

[Scooch]

Not technically true according to Fr. Leahy. That so-called commitment to the Big East was conditional. I tend to believe Jesuit priests in their pronouncements and as a Le Moyne employee I would expect you to also. Not because you are an employee but because you have some familiarity with the Jesuits.

And we were all set to go to the ACC too at that time after having entertained the ACC Selection Committee's tour of our facilities and having laid out the good china for them. The Gov. of Va queered that deal.

So the SU fan base "shock and horror" at BC bolting has always seemed to me to be both feigned and silly.

"Conditional" is in the eye of the beholder, of course. It's pretty common knowledge that back in 2003 BC was professing a lot of loyalty to Big East Presidents and ADs... while continuing to negotiate with the ACC. Now, I don't blame them at all for continuing to talk to the ACC, but let's not rewrite history either. More than a few Big East schools, including SU, felt that BC was not above board in the way they conducted themselves.

As for the Jesuit stuff... I mean, come on. I grew up in the Boston area. You've seen Spotlight, right?

 

[SUfaninAZ]

Part of the rivalry is the players having animosity for the other team, no one on our football team or basketball team give a rats you know what about rutgirls.

And no one presently on our football or basketball team gives a rats ass about Rutgers.