The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

721Comstock

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So why are they kicking our ass in recruiting? Call it like it is. Early on, they are kicking our ass. I am sure they will lose some but still - perception is reality.

Why?

Because they have multiple program shills working for one of the major Crooin ranking services - who consistently OVERRATE their own croots, while also downgrading ours.

Examples:
SUNJ gets a verbal from a QB with a handful of committable meh P5 offers - FOUR STARS!!!

SUNJ thought they led for Duce Chestnut (FOUR STARS!!!), but then the ratings started to drop when he was no longer a lock (and thought a lean to BC), and then -
AFTER he committed to Syracuse, he gets dropped to THREE STARS.
(all while ZERO football was being played during a pandemic)

Rutgers recruiting rankings are the football equivalent of Trump's self-congratulatory tweets about his various accomplishments:
those that aren't completely fabricated are wildly overstated.

Bottom line - IF Rutgers is recruiting so well, why do they still suck?
 

PatMark

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Why?

Because they have multiple program shills working for one of the major Crooin ranking services - who consistently OVERRATE their own croots, while also downgrading ours.

Examples:
SUNJ gets a verbal from a QB with a handful of committable meh P5 offers - FOUR STARS!!!

SUNJ thought they led for Duce Chestnut (FOUR STARS!!!), but then the ratings started to drop when he was no longer a lock (and thought a lean to BC), and then -
AFTER he committed to Syracuse, he gets dropped to THREE STARS.
(all while ZERO football was being played during a pandemic)

Rutgers recruiting rankings are the football equivalent of Trump's self-congratulatory tweets about his various accomplishments:
those that aren't completely fabricated are wildly overstated.

Bottom line - IF Rutgers is recruiting so well, why do they still suck?

AHHHHH got it! It's 247, Rivals, Scout over rating their recruits. I guess we are just going to keep putting our face in the sand regarding our recruiting being G5-level and not P5-level. But I guess every recruiting site has something against Syracuse.

Bottom line - they won 3x more games than us in a shortened covid year with a completely new offense and defense. So, while yes I agree, they suck - we suck worse and my whole impetus for sharing this is because it is eerily starting to feel like those mid 2000s when the Girls leapfrogged us in the Northeast. Hope Dino figures it out but his track record and what I've seen with my eyes lately, doesn't provide much confidence.
 

javadoc

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Does anyone know if Schiano still has his thugs diving at folks' knees against the victory formation? What happened last season?
 

Killdozer

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Why?

Because they have multiple program shills working for one of the major Crooin ranking services - who consistently OVERRATE their own croots, while also downgrading ours.

Examples:
SUNJ gets a verbal from a QB with a handful of committable meh P5 offers - FOUR STARS!!!

SUNJ thought they led for Duce Chestnut (FOUR STARS!!!), but then the ratings started to drop when he was no longer a lock (and thought a lean to BC), and then -
AFTER he committed to Syracuse, he gets dropped to THREE STARS.
(all while ZERO football was being played during a pandemic)

Rutgers recruiting rankings are the football equivalent of Trump's self-congratulatory tweets about his various accomplishments:
those that aren't completely fabricated are wildly overstated.

Bottom line - IF Rutgers is recruiting so well, why do they still suck?
Can you please keep this to Syracuse sports forum and not bring your liberal views into your posts. It is quite annoying
 

TheCusian

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AHHHHH got it! It's 247, Rivals, Scout over rating their recruits. I guess we are just going to keep putting our face in the sand regarding our recruiting being G5-level and not P5-level. But I guess every recruiting site has something against Syracuse.

Bottom line - they won 3x more games than us in a shortened covid year with a completely new offense and defense. So, while yes I agree, they suck - we suck worse and my whole impetus for sharing this is because it is eerily starting to feel like those mid 2000s when the Girls leapfrogged us in the Northeast. Hope Dino figures it out but his track record and what I've seen with my eyes lately, doesn't provide much confidence.
3x LOL! Don’t make me do a deep dive on their history again.

Better yet, you do it. See where Babers 2018 season would slot in Rutgers history. Have they ever beaten a top 2 team?

All that is to say being worried over Shady and Rutgers is in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” category. (And as I’ve stated before - we go after like 2-3 of the same kids year in and year out. They are not all that relevant to us, unlike the BE days when they stole our thunder for a hot minute)
 

PhatOrange

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Bottom line - they won 3x more games than us in a shortened covid year with a completely new offense and defense. So, while yes I agree, they suck - we suck worse and my whole impetus for sharing this is because it is eerily starting to feel like those mid 2000s when the Girls leapfrogged us in the Northeast. Hope Dino figures it out but his track record and what I've seen with my eyes lately, doesn't provide

Bottom line - they won 3x more games than us in

Who even knows that stuff unless they’re gap tooth’s butt buddy. You should spend more energy worrying about BC, a team actually in our conference
 

tipphill

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The ONLY reason Rutty had their ascendancy during Shady's first tenure, was because Syracuse made an all-time TURRIBLE hire, and demolished what had previously been a Top 25 program fairly consistently.

And we literally jump-started them by canning P, which cost us Ray Rice, who went there instead.

UConn also ramped up during this same period when we cratered.

Coincidence? HARDLY.

Lastly - Rutgers has always gotten verbals from some talented local kids.
They rarely actually keep them though.
You could make a College All-Star Team out of former SUNJ "commits" who then DE-committed (I miss the RUDecommit Twitter) and played ball elsewhere.
Saquon Barkley anyone??
you forgot the most important thing,---when we were good and MAKING MONEY, we never reinvested in the program facilities arms race. we stalled on building a indoor practice field. p was having trouble recruiting, which got hime fired---you know the rest.---marrone could see through the ad sh.. show---we had consecutive chancellors that did not give a crap etc etc etc .
the lack of program support got ben s. and pp fired. to bad we couldn't keep marone.
by the way take a look at some of the tears ago when we were good----lots of jersey guys
 

PatMark

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3x LOL! Don’t make me do a deep dive on their history again.

Better yet, you do it. See where Babers 2018 season would slot in Rutgers history. Have they ever beaten a top 2 team?

All that is to say being worried over Shady and Rutgers is in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” category. (And as I’ve stated before - we go after like 2-3 of the same kids year in and year out. They are not all that relevant to us, unlike the BE days when they stole our thunder for a hot minute)

I wasn't talking history. I was talking last year. We won 1 game in year 5 of our HC. They won 3 games in year 1 of their HC. Dive deep as much as you want but that wasn't my point.

Totally agree with your last statement. I won't be worried until I see it as well - just like I felt in the mid 2000s. Since P was fired - Rutgers has won 24 more games than us. That is embarrassing. Amazing how one bad fire/hire changed the trajectory of two programs. That history is what is giving me uneasy feelings. Thankfully we get the Girls on the field this year!
 

HtownOrange

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AHHHHH got it! It's 247, Rivals, Scout over rating their recruits. I guess we are just going to keep putting our face in the sand regarding our recruiting being G5-level and not P5-level. But I guess every recruiting site has something against Syracuse.

Bottom line - they won 3x more games than us in a shortened covid year with a completely new offense and defense. So, while yes I agree, they suck - we suck worse and my whole impetus for sharing this is because it is eerily starting to feel like those mid 2000s when the Girls leapfrogged us in the Northeast. Hope Dino figures it out but his track record and what I've seen with my eyes lately, doesn't provide much confidence.
Rutgers stinking to high heaven and HCDB's performance are not the only options. Shady is shady and will get put in his place by the B1G. Shady will not rule the eastern division. I doubt he holds a ,500 record in the B1G over time, and certainly not in his division.

HCDB had 10 wins a couple seasons ago, it is up to him to prove himself this fall. I have no doubt that HCDB will prove himself or SU will find someone else. Complaints about HCDB's recruiting are fair game - in other threads, but not this thread.

This thread is dedicated to bashing Rutgers, not SU. This thread is about Rutgers perpetual suckitude, their inept finances (If Rutgers was a corporation, they would have dropped sports altogether because of their ROI!), even the NJ politicians can't abuse spending like Rutgers' AD. Let's not bring up more than a half billion owed for what? Another chance at mediocrity with Shady? Yeah, bashing Rutgers is good. Watching good recruits dump them is fun. Watching their "4" star players underperform everyone else is really telling. If their recruits were half as good as advertised, Rutgers would be a perennial power with a shot at the top every now and then.
 

TheCusian

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I wasn't talking history. I was talking last year. We won 1 game in year 5 of our HC. They won 3 games in year 1 of their HC. Dive deep as much as you want but that wasn't my point.

Totally agree with your last statement. I won't be worried until I see it as well - just like I felt in the mid 2000s. Since P was fired - Rutgers has won 24 more games than us. That is embarrassing. Amazing how one bad fire/hire changed the trajectory of two programs. That history is what is giving me uneasy feelings. Thankfully we get the Girls on the field this year!
My point was - last year was a weird year and winning 3x as many games sounds better than it is.

And you didn’t answer the question - where does our 10 win season stack up with their entire history?

There is no changing of trajectories LOL. They went from horrible to mediocre with Shady in round 1 (in a bad BE). Then a bunch of horrible under Ash and Flood. Now, after a 3 win season they are going to dominate the Big 10 LOL? They might be mediocre.

Have we struggled? Yes. But even in some of our darkest stretches we’ve reached highs they haven’t. All while having less heralded recruiting classes. I get the fall from P to Gerg and the rise of Shady looms large - but they are not in our conference. Who cares?
 

PatMark

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My point was - last year was a weird year and winning 3x as many games sounds better than it is.

And you didn’t answer the question - where does our 10 win season stack up with their entire history?

There is no changing of trajectories LOL. They went from horrible to mediocre with Shady in round 1 (in a bad BE). Then a bunch of horrible under Ash and Flood. Now, after a 3 win season they are going to dominate the Big 10 LOL? They might be mediocre.

Have we struggled? Yes. But even in some of our darkest stretches we’ve reached highs they haven’t. All while having less heralded recruiting classes. I get the fall from P to Gerg and the rise of Shady looms large - but they are not in our conference. Who cares?

Man you are all over the place.

Sorry, I am not impressed with our 10 win season 3 years ago. Sure it was fun while it was happening but we didn't capitalize on it at all.

Never said they were going to dominate the Big Ten lol...

Idk there are 415 pages on the topic so there are definitely some who care. And the fact remains, a good/mediocre Rutgers - whether on paper or on the field - historically is bad for us.
 

HtownOrange

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Man you are all over the place.

Sorry, I am not impressed with our 10 win season 3 years ago. Sure it was fun while it was happening but we didn't capitalize on it at all.

Never said they were going to dominate the Big Ten lol...

Idk there are 415 pages on the topic so there are definitely some who care. And the fact remains, a good/mediocre Rutgers - whether on paper or on the field - historically is bad for us.
Not slamming you, just asking for clarification. The only time I recall Rutgers achieving mediocrity was one short period while SU was down and the Big East was weak. That is not significant as far as history goes.

SU has been down before and has arisen. Rutgers has never been up, rarely been mediocre, and has a losing record against SU, losing roughly 75% of the games vs. SU.

While your points may be valid to discuss elsewhere, this is still a bash Rutgers thread. It was never intended to replace meaningful discussion in other threads, merely to consolidate bashing to one thread. Please feel free to start a meaning ful discussion in another thread and reserve and preserve this thread for Rutgers bashing. Enjoy their ineptitude regardless of SU's status at the time.
 

SUFaninNJ

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Not slamming you, just asking for clarification. The only time I recall Rutgers achieving mediocrity was one short period while SU was down and the Big East was weak. That is not significant as far as history goes.

SU has been down before and has arisen. Rutgers has never been up, rarely been mediocre, and has a losing record against SU, losing roughly 75% of the games vs. SU.

While your points may be valid to discuss elsewhere, this is still a bash Rutgers thread. It was never intended to replace meaningful discussion in other threads, merely to consolidate bashing to one thread. Please feel free to start a meaning ful discussion in another thread and reserve and preserve this thread for Rutgers bashing. Enjoy their ineptitude regardless of SU's status at the time.
Well Done Clapping GIF by MOODMAN
 

DownTheField

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Man you are all over the place.

Sorry, I am not impressed with our 10 win season 3 years ago. Sure it was fun while it was happening but we didn't capitalize on it at all.

Never said they were going to dominate the Big Ten lol...

Idk there are 415 pages on the topic so there are definitely some who care. And the fact remains, a good/mediocre Rutgers - whether on paper or on the field - historically is bad for us.
Their recruiting rankings might be higher but that doesn’t mean they’re getting better players. They just have their own guys making the rankings.

I’ve said this before but Schiano’s biggest win is worse than Babers’ biggest win and their biggest bowl win (after their dream season) is no different than Shafer’s only bowl win.
 

TheCusian

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Man you are all over the place.

Sorry, I am not impressed with our 10 win season 3 years ago. Sure it was fun while it was happening but we didn't capitalize on it at all.

Never said they were going to dominate the Big Ten lol...

Idk there are 415 pages on the topic so there are definitely some who care. And the fact remains, a good/mediocre Rutgers - whether on paper or on the field - historically is bad for us.
No, I’m holding you to the question. You’re dodging.

I didn’t ask if you were impressed with our ten win season or with our win over Clemson. I’m asking if you’d look up their history and see where those two things land in comparison. They happened under our current HC. Contrast that with Shady’s time there. Then add in all the times we’ve had folks nervous that they are out recruiting us and we’re doomed.

Historically - you mean that one time we had Gerg and they had Shady and they had a run of mediocrity that only stands out because they’ve been so bad... historically?

My point about not caring is that we don’t rely on NJ recruiting like we once did, mostly because Penn St and Michigan and Ohio St use their Big 10 footprint to get what they want. I‘d imagine Shady hurts them more than us. Other than that they are irrelevant to us, no?

This thread is long because they are a dumpster fire and this thread is a fun way to collect all their misery and warm our hearts by.
 

PatMark

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No, I’m holding you to the question. You’re dodging.

I didn’t ask if you were impressed with our ten win season or with our win over Clemson. I’m asking if you’d look up their history and see where those two things land in comparison. They happened under our current HC. Contrast that with Shady’s time there. Then add in all the times we’ve had folks nervous that they are out recruiting us and we’re doomed.

Historically - you mean that one time we had Gerg and they had Shady and they had a run of mediocrity that only stands out because they’ve been so bad... historically?

My point about not caring is that we don’t rely on NJ recruiting like we once did, mostly because Penn St and Michigan and Ohio St use their Big 10 footprint to get what they want. I‘d imagine Shady hurts them more than us. Other than that they are irrelevant to us, no?

This thread is long because they are a dumpster fire and this thread is a fun way to collect all their misery and warm our hearts by.

Guy, they've been to 9 bowl games since P was fired - we've been to 4. As I mentioned in my last post, they've won 24 more games that us in that same span. Sure, they scheduled SMARTER than we did (thanks a lot Dr. Gross and Herm Frazier!). But again, the perception is reality.

My point was never from an overall historic context. You aren't comprehending that. Of course we are a better program since 1900. I am more concerned with the last 10-15-20 years (age of our recruits). The PERCEPTION amongst that demographic is that Rutgers is a better program. That is why they have the 6th ranked class in the country. It sickens me to type that but it's reality and one win vs. Clemson three years ago isn't going to change that - just like having more success over the past 20 years isn't going to change the fact that we are historically a better program than the Girls over the lifetime of the sport.

I get your point regarding NJ recruiting and it definitely makes sense. I would only argue that we are targeting a different quality of recruit which can be quantified by the recruiting websites, regardless of bias. Personally, I do think we should be recruiting Jersey more heavily. It's arguably (between Western PA) the most talent laden area within a 3/4 hour drive of campus that we've got and we proved we can compete there with landing Duce.
 

TheCusian

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Guy, they've been to 9 bowl games since P was fired - we've been to 4. As I mentioned in my last post, they've won 24 more games that us in that same span. Sure, they scheduled SMARTER than we did (thanks a lot Dr. Gross and Herm Frazier!). But again, the perception is reality.

My point was never from an overall historic context. You aren't comprehending that. Of course we are a better program since 1900. I am more concerned with the last 10-15-20 years (age of our recruits). The PERCEPTION amongst that demographic is that Rutgers is a better program. That is why they have the 6th ranked class in the country. It sickens me to type that but it's reality and one win vs. Clemson three years ago isn't going to change that - just like having more success over the past 20 years isn't going to change the fact that we are historically a better program than the Girls over the lifetime of the sport.

I get your point regarding NJ recruiting and it definitely makes sense. I would only argue that we are targeting a different quality of recruit which can be quantified by the recruiting websites, regardless of bias. Personally, I do think we should be recruiting Jersey more heavily. It's arguably (between Western PA) the most talent laden area within a 3/4 hour drive of campus that we've got and we proved we can compete there with landing Duce.

Oh, we're to the use "guy" or "bruh" portion of the discussion? lol.

Final thoughts, respectfully:

1. My first point stands. They are not eating our lunch. They haven't been dominating anything. Their recruiting class, while nice, is early and they've had a history of those guys not making it to campus or leaving, etc. To give Shady credit, he's coached in the NFL and at Ohio St. He's the lone good coach in their history and known commodity in NJ. He's no Ash or Flood.

2. Our recruits are 17 or 18. They've realistically been following college football for 5 or 6 years. That's why I've been bringing up 2018 and the 10 win season and 2017's win over #2 Clemson (I'd bet that the third data point would be the viral locker room moment after beating VaTech in '16). Also keep in mind, the elite kids aren't really looking at either school. Neither have been great, obviously

Here's the data from the last 6 years:

ProgramOverall WinsConf WinsSimple Rating System (0 is average)Bowl WinsTop 25 Wins
Syracuse2815-1.2714
Rutgers187-6.000

Keep in mind, I included 2020 which will go down with a huge asterisk IMO. If you leave off 2020, they have 4 conference wins in 5 years. We'd have 14 over that same span.

EDIT: They've had 1 10 win season in the last 20 years and didn't beat a top 2 team in that span. They beat #3 Louisville in what remains the biggest win in school history. That was 15 years ago.
 
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PhatOrange

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Man you are all over the place.

Sorry, I am not impressed with our 10 win season 3 years ago. Sure it was fun while it was happening but we didn't capitalize on it at all.

Never said they were going to dominate the Big Ten lol...

Idk there are 415 pages on the topic so there are definitely some who care. And the fact remains, a good/mediocre Rutgers - whether on paper or on the field - historically is bad for us.

Babers' won 4 games in his first season with 1AA players so he's still better even when he's bad.
 

PhatOrange

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And he won 1 game last year with HIS guys...

right his guys that because of injuries were down to 20 some freshman and sophomores on a two deep including a true frosh QB. But ok. It's an equivalent comparison. You're love affair with buttgers is dopey. We don't compete with them in any way shape or form so the acceptance of them you seem to be craving is weird.
 

PatMark

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right his guys that because of injuries were down to 20 some freshman and sophomores on a two deep including a true frosh QB. But ok. It's an equivalent comparison. You're love affair with buttgers is dopey. We don't compete with them in any way shape or form so the acceptance of them you seem to be craving is weird.

Proud Cuse alum here - no love affair with "buttgers" - just hoping for better days for our program. Sorry for having a different opinion than you.
 

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