The Big Picture

[Ish88888]

Nice post and i agree with most of it (particularly points 7 and 8 on the LBs playing better than expected and not crushing the DL on one game. I think it's fair to point out that the DL didn't particularly impress, but they also had a few moments here and there.

The only real disagreement I have is at RB. Neal is, IMO, adequate. He's not going to kill us, he's OK between the tackles and has a little bit of burst. But he's OK at best. Strickland had a nice grab and our longest run from an RB but really shouldn't be on the field for a team that really hopes to compete in the ACC. Or at least not as one of the primary RBs. The difference with Bellamy was when there was something there he had the speed to turn it into something huge.

Part of the reason we struggled is that we never turn a hole into a big play -- it's more like an 8 or 9 or maybe 15-yard run. We need to turn those into chunks but we don't have the personnel (at least on the field in game 1) to do it.

The only frustration I have is that if you are a coach drafting offensive skill players from that game you'd take Dungey 1, but then you'd take Bellamy/Reed/Eskridge in some order over the next three picks and then there's a bit of a gap to custis at 5. Even WMU's backup running backs flashed some nice potential.

We absolutely need to figure out the RB situation, IMO.

Otherwise agree almost across the board.

Very true , all after some making fun of the 40 times wmu posted for their skill guys. Well, we saw it first hand and yes, they were for real. Our guys simply dont have that burst, wrs and rbs included.

 

[rrlbees]

Watch the replays. Vision is not his gift as an RB. After you watch Strick watch Eric who has great vision. If you want a good example of Stricks lack of Vision dial up his touch down last year against Clemson. Great catch and great balance. Now follow the run to the end zone. So tell me Bees do you think one of Stricks strengths as a RB is his vision? If so please point out a couple of runs that prove your point.

Nice deflection. Answer my question, not give me your opinion.

 

[kcsu]

Nice deflection. Answer my question, not give me your opinion.

Yes sir

 

[kcsu]

Yes sir

Actually if you read my reply i did. Clemson game, touch down...

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

If that's the case, our RBs are worse than I thought. Gaping holes should lead to a much better average than our RBs had. I'll have to take your word for it, I guess.

They averaged close to 6 YPC in the first half, not sure how much more you want. Dungey averaged more than 25 on true running plays. Look here for more information.

 

[sufandu]

They averaged close to 6 YPC in the first half, not sure how much more you want. Dungey averaged more than 25 on true running plays. Look here for more information.

I want an oline that can do it for a whole game and not one that requires the defense to be be deathly scared of the qb running to make it work. You charted the first half. Did you chart the second half? Why did Neal average 2.9 for the game? Why did Strickland average 3.5 for the game. Did the oline forget how to block?

I think we saw a defense that was so focused on trying to stop Dungey, they put themselves out of position to stop the RBs. It was doubly bad for them that they still couldn't stop Dungey. Dungey goes out, they get to play normal defense, and all of that room disappeared. This would all be fine if Dungey knew how to protect himself, but he doesn't. When the starting qb is wearing tape and ice on his shd by the end of game one, I have concerns.

We won the game by nearly 2 TDs and I am happy about that, but I'm not gonna look at the whole game through orange colored glasses and pretend it was all great. I saw an offensive line that was solid, not dominant.

 

[upperdeck]

neal YPC went down because we ran like 100 plays from a stacked formation inside the red zone and every short 3rd down

 

[SmilinBob]

neal YPC went down because we ran like 100 plays from a stacked formation inside the red zone and every short 3rd down

Maybe but that said, the stacked formation struggled in the 4th quarter. WMU adjusted to it.

 

[upperdeck]

I would hope so since they were running 8-9 in the box against it.

 

[TheCusian]

We were not trying hard to score those that two drives - it was literally hoping to gain 3.3 yards as the clock ran

 

[SmilinBob]

I would hope so since they were running 8-9 in the box against it.

WMU was undersized and I expect SU to be able to push them around with 8/9 in the box. The ACC will have a bigger and faster 8 or 9 in the box.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I want an oline that can do it for a whole game and not one that requires the defense to be be deathly scared of the qb running to make it work. You charted the first half. Did you chart the second half? Why did Neal average 2.9 for the game? Why did Strickland average 3.5 for the game. Did the oline forget how to block?

I think we saw a defense that was so focused on trying to stop Dungey, they put themselves out of position to stop the RBs. It was doubly bad for them that they still couldn't stop Dungey. Dungey goes out, they get to play normal defense, and all of that room disappeared. This would all be fine if Dungey knew how to protect himself, but he doesn't. When the starting qb is wearing tape and ice on his shd by the end of game one, I have concerns.

We won the game by nearly 2 TDs and I am happy about that, but I'm not gonna look at the whole game through orange colored glasses and pretend it was all great. I saw an offensive line that was solid, not dominant.

If you want to look at it glass half empty, that's fine. I didn't link to the 2nd half because honestly with Devito in there most of the 3rd, and with the offense trying to chew clock the fourth quarter it's skewed. Also, because it's still on the first page and I was confident you could find it yourself if you were interested.

With that said they ran Offset Power I's almost the entire 4th quarter with Neal, and were churning up first downs. Old school smash mouth, 2, 3, 4 and 5 yard runs. It's skewed though because the defense knew EXACTLY what they were going to do every time they lined up. SU accomplished what they wanted though -- shortening the game.

Here's the link to 2nd half if you want to look through it. I urge you not to just look at run totals, and instead look at circumstances. I also would ask that you don't discount Dungey (or Devito) designed runs. They are read options. If the QB reads correctly and decides to take it themselves, then they've done well. That's a part of this offense, and you can't fault them because they're running too often. They made reads, and gained yards.

 

[sufandu]

If you want to look at it glass half empty, that's fine. I didn't link to the 2nd half because honestly with Devito in there most of the 3rd, and with the offense trying to chew clock the fourth quarter it's skewed. Also, because it's still on the first page and I was confident you could find it yourself if you were interested.

With that said they ran Offset Power I's almost the entire 4th quarter with Neal, and were churning up first downs. Old school smash mouth, 2, 3, 4 and 5 yard runs. It's skewed though because the defense knew EXACTLY what they were going to do every time they lined up. SU accomplished what they wanted though -- shortening the game.

Here's the link to 2nd half if you want to look through it. I urge you not to just look at run totals, and instead look at circumstances. I also would ask that you don't discount Dungey (or Devito) designed runs. They are read options. If the QB reads correctly and decides to take it themselves, then they've done well. That's a part of this offense, and you can't fault them because they're running too often. They made reads, and gained yards.

Running backs running behind dominant offensive lines don't average 3 ypc even when running the clock out. 6 out of the 17 carries Neal had after Dungey came back in were for 4 yards or more with the lomgest being 6 yards. We lost the ball on downs with a negative run on 4th and goal. That is less than dominant. Dominant offensive lines break the will of lesser teams by busting out consistant 5 yard chunks to end games not multiple 1-3 yard runs with an occasional 4 yard run. Dominant offensive lines don't look completely different when running blocking based on which QB is in the game. Dominant offensive lines average more yards per carry when the defense knows what's coming, so all of the qualifiers you want to use are meaningless to me. As I said before, it was a good performance by the oline, not a dominant one. Notice, I didn't say they were bad as you seem to think I am. They were good, not dominant.

I feel like we've been so bad here for so long we've forgotten what it looks like to be really really good. I watch other teams play. I know what dominating the LOS looks like. We did not do that. I hope we can grow from this good performance and be great by the middle of the season. If Dungey is gonna play against BC we need that to happen.

 

[TheCusian]

Running backs running behind dominant offensive lines don't average 3 ypc even when running the clock out. 6 out of the 17 carries Neal had after Dungey came back in were for 4 yards or more with the lomgest being 6 yards. We lost the ball on downs with a negative run on 4th and goal. That is less than dominant. Dominant offensive lines break the will of lesser teams by busting out consistant 5 yard chunks to end games not multiple 1-3 yard runs with an occasional 4 yard run. Dominant offensive lines don't look completely different when running blocking based on which QB is in the game. Dominant offensive lines average more yards per carry when the defense knows what's coming, so all of the qualifiers you want to use are meaningless to me. As I said before, it was a good performance by the oline, not a dominant one. Notice, I didn't say they were bad as you seem to think I am. They were good, not dominant.

I feel like we've been so bad here for so long we've forgotten what it looks like to be really really good. I watch other teams play. I know what dominating the LOS looks like. We did not do that. I hope we can grow from this good performance and be great by the middle of the season. If Dungey is gonna play against BC we need that to happen.

How bout decent offensive lines? What do they do?

 

[cuse62]

Not to change the subject, wasn’t it good to see passes using the middle of the field?

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Running backs running behind dominant offensive lines don't average 3 ypc even when running the clock out. 6 out of the 17 carries Neal had after Dungey came back in were for 4 yards or more with the lomgest being 6 yards. We lost the ball on downs with a negative run on 4th and goal. That is less than dominant. Dominant offensive lines break the will of lesser teams by busting out consistant 5 yard chunks to end games not multiple 1-3 yard runs with an occasional 4 yard run. Dominant offensive lines don't look completely different when running blocking based on which QB is in the game. Dominant offensive lines average more yards per carry when the defense knows what's coming, so all of the qualifiers you want to use are meaningless to me. As I said before, it was a good performance by the oline, not a dominant one. Notice, I didn't say they were bad as you seem to think I am. They were good, not dominant.

I feel like we've been so bad here for so long we've forgotten what it looks like to be really really good. I watch other teams play. I know what dominating the LOS looks like. We did not do that. I hope we can grow from this good performance and be great by the middle of the season. If Dungey is gonna play against BC we need that to happen.

Sure, I'd agree with that if they were running different plays. They literally ran the same play about 10 times in a row, if not more. Either Elmore or Kleinberg would go in motion out of the backfield, wherever they would go is where the play went. WMU was stacking whatever side they motioned to, and attacked.

Further - SU averaged 7.7 YPC in the first half. They averaged 3.2 YPC in the 2nd half, mostly because of Devito, and trying to milk the clock. It was so vanilla, I was guessing the play just based on the formation. If I can do that, the defense certainly was. Not exactly a recipe for gashing a team. Especially when the only thing they wanted to do the entire 4th quarter was run clock.

If you'd like, I can cut some video up of first half runs frame by frame, so you can see how dominant the line was when they were running the regular offense. I watched way too much video of this week's game and I know what I was seeing. I'm not saying they are DOMINANT, but I am saying they are much better than last year. You can not believe me, but I know what I charted.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree with much of the OP but let me ask this question. If I had told everyone that, after the game, Dungey would have tape on his right shoulder and ice on his left, would you feel good about him lasting an entire season?

The ice was on his right shoulder after the game. The photo you saw online was mirror image - the letters were backwards. So the ice wasn't actually on his left shoulder.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Holy Smokes! What game were you watching??? Other than Dungey,the OL was the story of the game. Totally dominated the LOS. Dude, I think you accidentally threw in an old GRob vhs.

The OL stopped opening holes when DeVito came in.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We won the game by nearly 2 TDs and I am happy about that, but I'm not gonna look at the whole game through orange colored glasses and pretend it was all great. I saw an offensive line that was solid, not dominant.

I agree. The line was dominant when we went up 34-7, but then they relaxed, DeVito came in, and they let the WMU defensive line back into the game. We had trouble opening holes the rest of the game, even after Dungy came back in.

This is not a team that is good enough to turn it on and off. They have to play with maximum effort the whole game. They were getting out-hustled late in the game, which does not reflect so well on our alleged advantage in conditioning.

 

[sufandu]

How bout decent offensive lines? What do they do?

They do what ours did.

 

[Finwad32]

Great post Finwad32 however Ward still puzzles me...how we didn't roll a safety deep after the first two times they threw over are heads doesn't make sense...it took them to get within one score to finally play someone in "Centerfield"

I think, at least the 1st time, Cisco adjusted late. So he missed it, I'll take that in a true FR's first game. Second, I've gotta go back and take a peek.

After Scoop came out, Trill and Chris were giving him 12 yard cushions on either side and we'd press oppo. They might've been able to chunk it up, but, they weren't getting us over the top again.

 

[Finwad32]

Did anyone else notice we didnt throw any reciever screens? I thought that was interesting because we lived on those the last couple years.

We ran about four plays or variations of... Kept this one extremely vanilla.

That was one thing that I liked, we didn't have to put a lot on film before FSU.