The Black Hole Years | Syracusefan.com

The Black Hole Years

C

Caboose

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I feel like I'm reaching my breaking point watching this basketball program over the last four seasons. Aside from the Final 4 run this has been absolutely abysmal. 13, 14, 15 losses respectively over the last three seasons, and a minimum of 13 this year. I now realize that this is probably what it feels like to be an NC State, or Marquette, or Georgia Tech fan... hope for lightning in a bottle one year, but probably going to be in double-digit loss territory. Just horrible going into a season w these feelings and then actually enduring it. We've been spoiled here no doubt. I'm just venting. I'll close w these two texts I sent to my buddies this morning.

"I will always call these the black hole years. Final four two week tourney stretch excluded... aside from that these are the Black Hole Years. 13, 14, 15, and now a minimum of 13 this year. Crazy.

We are getting destroyed more than any other program by NBA defections because we find fringe NBA talent like Lydon, Malachi, MCW, Ennis, that were genius recruiting hits, then as soon as they show NBA potential they're gone and we are left w a depleted roster w talent for a Final Four run gone. Other programs reload, but we lose the lucky finds and have to find more lucky finds. Hopefully this FBI bombshell evens the playing field."
 
OrangeDW said:
Probation did what it was supposed to do.
Expand...

You'd figure with a HOF coach and all these NBA players, top 20 recruiting classes would give better result. Especially when you hear year after year how great each individual player is and how great the recruits coming in are.

At least we have a built in excuse for poor execution, roster management and the worst looking offense of all time.
 
OrangeDW said:
Probation did what it was supposed to do.
Expand...
I know, I mean I'm not oblivious to that. For sure the sanctions played their role in destroying these last few years, but during that time we've still suffered from NBA defections of players we didn't expect that from. And since we're not in the business of Sean-Millering or Rick-Pitinoing blue chip recruits, those great talents like Lydon, Ennis, etc. don't come back here so easily. Personally, I feel like the Thomas Bryant snub was huge. If he were on that team two years ago, my God what a difference in the paint he would have made. I feel he didn't choose SU precisely due to the sanctions.
 
Sorry I don’t agree. There have been some exciting games, wins and losses. But at a breaking point? You must not be a football fan...
 
two3zone said:
You'd figure with a HOF coach and all these NBA players, top 20 recruiting classes would give better result. Especially when you hear year after year how great each individual player is and how great the recruits coming in are.

At least we have a built in excuse for poor execution, roster management and the worst looking offense of all time.
Expand...

We had the same coach, offense, and defense prior to these 4 years. Did Boeheim just magically start sucking after 2014?

Probation is directly related to roster management IMO.

This isn’t to suggest that everything has been done perfectly from 2014-on. Just thinking macro, not micro.
 
I don't think your naming convention will catch on because you don't get to exclude a FF. And as others have pointed out, and you should be well aware of, there have been sanctions to navigate through.

As for "Just horrible going into a season w these feelings" - that seems over. The future looks bright and expectations will increase for next season. Some highly recruited additions (Baz and Carey) being added to the solid program core (FH, PC, Moyer, Hughes, and Buddy). Looks like the old method of mixing solid program kids and a couple high end 1-2 year player strategy is back.
 
two3zone said:
You'd figure with a HOF coach and all these NBA players, top 20 recruiting classes would give better result. Especially when you hear year after year how great each individual player is and how great the recruits coming in are.

At least we have a built in excuse for poor execution, roster management and the worst looking offense of all time.
Expand...

I look at it this way. In some way, shape or form we are dealing with the following:
  • Serious scholarship reductions (NCAA). Biggest factor, hands down.
  • Transition to the ACC, where we are no longer the top dog like . ACC talent likely deeper than BE, and the visiting venues are more daunting (on-campus).
  • A lengthy string of stinging early NBA Draft departures
  • A legendary head coach playing the 17th and 18th holes of his career. Plenty of uncertainty for 2022 and beyond
  • A few 2-outs-in-the-9th recruiting defeats to Duke and Kentucky. Latest college hoops recruiting scandal has also likely had a hand in our sub-par record.
  • The exodus of local basketball talents to far-flung prep schools (Bryant, will play out with Stewart too I am afraid)
  • The departure of Hopkins, our link to the future
  • The era of unwavering dedication to the zone, but also to its subsequent affect on our pace of play (offense and fast break). Creates razor thin margin.
  • Too many point guards in too short a time period (akin to having too many quarterbacks starting in a short time span)
  • The fall of the empires at UConn (and Pitt too) have helped, but let's not be blind...Villanova has jumped into their place.
All this said, the first bullet is the main issue and that goes away very soon. We'll finally be playing with a full hand and I think we'll enjoy having a fair fight on our hands. Starts next year!
 
Last edited:
OrangeDW said:
We had the same coach, offense, and defense prior to these 4 years. Did Boeheim just magically start sucking after 2014?

Probation is directly related to roster management IMO.

This isn’t to suggest that everything has been done perfectly from 2014-on. Just thinking macro, not micro.
Expand...

The difference is that the guy who ran the nuts and bolts for the program for years is now at Washington. Another person who coached our bigs from the time Boeheim was hired is and has been gone for a while. The head coach is not now and never was the entire story.
 
SUbear said:
The difference is that the guy who ran the nuts and bolts for the program for years is now at Washington. Another person who coached our bigs from the time Boeheim was hired is and has been gone for a while. The head coach is not now and never was the entire story.
Expand...

Hopkins was here from 2015-2017 though.

Bernie’s been gone since 2011 - we had our best regular season ever and went to two final fours after he left.
 
So, other than making a Final Four run, and playing in a ton of exciting games, including some epic wins over the past few seasons - you're butthurt that we haven't done better?

Got it.

As somebody posted above - sanctions.
They worked. Really, really well.

In spite of that -
this program HASN'T HAD A LOSING SEASON IN OVER FOUR DECADES.
AND COUNTING.

If you think this sucks, try being a Georgetown or UConn fan. ;)

The cavalry is about to come riding over the hill.
There will be plenty of room on the bandwagon once they do.
 
Chart of SRS

It's not that unusual
2n7qgdh.jpg
 
OrangeDW said:
Hopkins was here from 2015-2017 though.many common big man errors are consistently being repeated by our current bigs

Bernie’s been gone since 2011 - we had our best regular season ever and went to two final fours after he left.
Expand...

You may not have noticed but our bigs have not improved very much in the time period after Bernie. Now you can say it is the fault of the players we have had since he left but I have a hard time with that. I am not going into all the errors I see that go uncorrected . That best season you mention, well a lot of those bigs were coached by him before he left. None of this is apropo to the point that Boeheim is not and never was the whole story.
 
SUbear said:
You may not have noticed but our bigs have not improved very much in the time period after Bernie. Now you can say it is the fault of the players we have had since he left but I have a hard time with that. I am not going into all the errors I see that go uncorrected . That best season you mention, well a lot of those bigs were coached by him before he left. None of this is apropo to the point that Boeheim is not and never was the whole story.
Expand...

Fab and Rak didn't improve? Interesting.
 
SUbear said:
You may not have noticed but our bigs have not improved very much in the time period after Bernie. Now you can say it is the fault of the players we have had since he left but I have a hard time with that. I am not going into all the errors I see that go uncorrected . That best season you mention, well a lot of those bigs were coached by him before he left. None of this is apropo to the point that Boeheim is not and never was the whole story.
Expand...

Rakeem Christmas improved as much over the course of his career as any SU big man, IMO.

Coleman unfortunately was wrecked by injuries.

I think those are the only four year big guys we’ve had since Bernie.
 
OrangeDW said:
Rakeem Christmas improved as much over the course of his career as any SU big man, IMO.

Coleman unfortunately was wrecked by injuries.

I think those are the only four year big guys we’ve had since Bernie.
Expand...

Christmas was freaking amazing his senior year. It was only the big UNC guys and Okafor he struggled with. Everybody else he abused. Felt bad for him that he didn’t get to experience some post-season that year.
 
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