The Black Hole Years

[Toga]

Is that like the Horace Clarke years?

 

[moqui]

Just a suggestion: you should form an off-shoot of Syracusefan.com for more intellectually sophisticated posters.

i'd settle for honesty, but i know that's a bridge too far

 

[DoctorBombay]

Speaking of Final Fours and “Black Holes”:
(From TNIAAM)



Those are 8 pretty decent programs who have NEVER been to even 1 Final Four, EVER.

Perspective, people.
Have some.

Fans of those programs would kill to be in a black hole like we are right now.

No No No No No...don’t you get it yet?
All is LOST!
We are DOOMED, DOOMED I tell ya!

Seriously, the overwrought, hyperventilating drama of some posters is fascinating to watch.
Pull your diapers up, ya pansies...it’s not as bad as you’d like to think it is.
Sheesh.

 

[81South]

The kids recruited here are not "ifs". The issue is: were the recruits inadequate to begin with or is the problem that they left or got hurt. it's clearly the latter.

What about guys like Ron Patterson, BJ Johnson, Chino Obokoh, and Kaleb Joseph? I would argue they were inadequate to begin with.

 

[nzm136]

I feel like I'm reaching my breaking point watching this basketball program over the last four seasons. Aside from the Final 4 run this has been absolutely abysmal. 13, 14, 15 losses respectively over the last three seasons, and a minimum of 13 this year. I now realize that this is probably what it feels like to be an NC State, or Marquette, or Georgia Tech fan... hope for lightning in a bottle one year, but probably going to be in double-digit loss territory. Just horrible going into a season w these feelings and then actually enduring it. We've been spoiled here no doubt. I'm just venting. I'll close w these two texts I sent to my buddies this morning.

"I will always call these the black hole years. Final four two week tourney stretch excluded... aside from that these are the Black Hole Years. 13, 14, 15, and now a minimum of 13 this year. Crazy.

We are getting destroyed more than any other program by NBA defections because we find fringe NBA talent like Lydon, Malachi, MCW, Ennis, that were genius recruiting hits, then as soon as they show NBA potential they're gone and we are left w a depleted roster w talent for a Final Four run gone. Other programs reload, but we lose the lucky finds and have to find more lucky finds. Hopefully this FBI bombshell evens the playing field."

You can thank the NCAA for those losses. SU BB picked up PSU FB's tab. The good news is that it's almost over, and we're going to come storming back as our main opposition gets hamstrung by an FBI investigation (and accompanying NCAA investigation).

 

[SWC75]

What about guys like Ron Patterson, BJ Johnson, Chino Obokoh, and Kaleb Joseph? I would argue they were inadequate to begin with.

Don't tell Bj's Dad.

The issue was: did we recruit enough good players to have a strong team. I think the answer is yes, even if other people didn't work out, which is hardly unusual. The issue is keeping them here, which schools like Virginia and Villanova and others have done a better job of, and keeping them healthy.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Came here to post exactly this. It's a point that gets overlooked or de-emphasized too often.

Are you ****ting me? It’s the crutch that gets used here ad infinidum .. as if we were given the death penalty... and it’s not just bad luck we were on probation in the first place .. the HOF coach had to thumb his nose at the NCAA and basically said “come at me bro”

 

[Brooky03]

Are you ****ting me? It’s the crutch that gets used here ad infinidum .. as if we were given the death penalty... and it’s not just bad luck we were on probation in the first place .. the HOF coach had to thumb his nose at the NCAA and basically said “come at me bro”

No. Just no

 

[chugg21]

What about guys like Ron Patterson, BJ Johnson, Chino Obokoh, and Kaleb Joseph? I would argue they were inadequate to begin with.

BJ would be either 1A or 1B on this team right now. Probably 1A with his ability to do other things to contribute to winning besides just scoring on volume. If only he redshirted as a too young, too thin freshman, he'd be a 5th year senior and we would likely be safely above the bubble.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

BJ would be either 1A or 1B on this team right now. Probably 1A with his ability to do other things to contribute to winning besides just scoring on volume. If only he redshirted as a too young, too thin freshman, he'd be a 5th year senior and we would likely be safely above the bubble.

Agreed. he is having a heckuva season at LaSalle. He can shoot the 3, get to the rim and would give us four legitimate scorers...all of whom can both drive and/or shoot...would make a huge difference on O...

 

[newmexicuse]

What about guys like Ron Patterson, BJ Johnson, Chino Obokoh, and Kaleb Joseph? I would argue they were inadequate to begin with.

BJ certainly worked out, though it took a little bit of time, which we all knew was necessary. If not for probation he probably would have stayed and starred here. Nobody here thought Kaleb was going to be the bust that he turned out to be. Everybody was enthused about his commitment at the time. Ron was a late pickup in a class where we need some guard help. he was borderline at the time, but everybody here thought there was little to lose in taking him. Chino was a project from day one and everybody knew that. Gotta do that with bigs if you aren't getting the four & five stars.

So all in all, without the vision of hindsight, who did you think was inadequate at the time that we took them ?

 

[chugg21]

BJ certainly worked out, though it took a little bit of time, which we all knew was necessary. If not for probation he probably would have stayed and starred here. Nobody here thought Kaleb was going to be the bust that he turned out to be. Everybody was enthused about his commitment at the time. Ron was a late pickup in a class where we need some guard help. he was borderline at the time, but everybody here thought there was little to lose in taking him. Chino was a project from day one and everybody knew that. Gotta do that with bigs if you aren't getting the four & five stars.

So all in all, without the vision of hindsight, who did you think was inadequate at the time that we took them ?

Even Chino likely had a purpose in trying to entice Bryant to come, which obviously didn't happen but made sense at the time.

 

[Sherman20]

That’s true. But we’ve also been pretty mediocre for the past few years. Absent one 20 minute outburst by MR, it’s been entirely mediocre.

So now the only real SU success of the past four years has been boiled down to Malichi Richardson’s half-game performance in the Elite Eight? You people are ridiculous. Let’s overlook/discount the press, every other player’s key contributions in that game, the overall resilience of the comeback, the other comeback and win against the underrated Zags in the sweet 16, blowouts wins over solid Dayton and MTSU teams, the Battle for Atlantis championship run, the win at Cameron Indoor, wins over Notre Dame and others, and the fact that JB wasn’t on the sidelines for 9 crucial games in the middle of the season. We lost our leader and it showed. We don’t go 4-5 in his absence. I’m sorry, that doesn’t happen. His leadership could have helped in losses to Miami, Pitt and def Clemson. Win a couple more in that stretch and we’re not even on the bubble. 2015-16 isn’t as bad as people want to make it out as.

 

[81South]

BJ certainly worked out, though it took a little bit of time, which we all knew was necessary. If not for probation he probably would have stayed and starred here. Nobody here thought Kaleb was going to be the bust that he turned out to be. Everybody was enthused about his commitment at the time. Ron was a late pickup in a class where we need some guard help. he was borderline at the time, but everybody here thought there was little to lose in taking him. Chino was a project from day one and everybody knew that. Gotta do that with bigs if you aren't getting the four & five stars.

So all in all, without the vision of hindsight, who did you think was inadequate at the time that we took them ?

Good question...BJ, Ron, and Chino all had me worried very early in their careers. None were consensus too 100 kids. I know we have take some gambles on kids and I can appreciate that. It just hurts when a handful of kids don’t pan out over a short time frame. I know some have said we took chino to help with Bryant...is that true? Did our recruiting gurus actually say that?

 

[orangecuse]

BJ would be either 1A or 1B on this team right now. Probably 1A with his ability to do other things to contribute to winning besides just scoring on volume. If only he redshirted as a too young, too thin freshman, he'd be a 5th year senior and we would likely be safely above the bubble.

Indeed! This is an excellent example of how the mismanagement of the roster argument has also been a contributing factor to the 4 year state of mediocrity.

 

[HOFCeluck]

If you don't think the sanctions hurt...Kevin Huerter.

That being said sanctions didn't make the 2013 recruiting class so underwhelming nor the 2014 class a disaster.

 

[orangecuse]

BJ certainly worked out, though it took a little bit of time, which we all knew was necessary. If not for probation he probably would have stayed and starred here. Nobody here thought Kaleb was going to be the bust that he turned out to be. Everybody was enthused about his commitment at the time. Ron was a late pickup in a class where we need some guard help. he was borderline at the time, but everybody here thought there was little to lose in taking him. Chino was a project from day one and everybody knew that. Gotta do that with bigs if you aren't getting the four & five stars.

So all in all, without the vision of hindsight, who did you think was inadequate at the time that we took them ?

I think BJ would've been very solid by his senior year hear, but I don't know about being a star since his senior year would've come and gone by now due to the neglect of not being red-shirted.

 

[SWC75]

Are you ****ting me? It’s the crutch that gets used here ad infinidum .. as if we were given the death penalty... and it’s not just bad luck we were on probation in the first place .. the HOF coach had to thumb his nose at the NCAA and basically said “come at me bro”

From the Syracusefan.com dictionary:

Fact: Something that supports your argument.

Excuse, (crutch, lie, whatever): Something that doesn't support your argument.

 

[HakAttack]

OP is right on the money. Mediocre since joining the ACC.

 

[syrcuse]

Probation did what it was supposed to do.

The Olympic Coach vacation happened at the same time......just sayin'...no face time......this is what you get

 

[721Comstock]

The Olympic Coach vacation happened at the same time...just sayin'...no face time...this is what you get

Yet, somehow the HEAD COACH of the Olympic team still managed to pull in a top recruiting class.

So maybe that’s not actually a valid reason.

 

[syrcuse]

Yet, somehow the HEAD COACH of the Olympic team still managed to pull in a top recruiting class.

So maybe that’s not actually a valid reason.

That was Duke. Duke can recruit with it's brand name. Successs tends to do that for you.

Where were their (Duke's) assistant coaches??? Mike wasn't home. Gerry was left to close the Quade deal. How'd that work out. TON OF OTHER regional misses. Plus the one that kills me... Two of the best underclassman from Jersey visited COLGATE late that summer. Anyone around for a casual invite to campus??? You can again guess how that worked out. Neither list us.

 

[two3zone]

That was Duke. Duke can recruit with it's brand name. Successs tends to do that for you.

Where were their (Duke's) assistant coaches??? Mike wasn't home. Gerry was left to close the Quade deal. How'd that work out. TON OF OTHER regional misses. Plus the one that kills me... Two of the best underclassman from Jersey visited COLGATE late that summer. Anyone around for a casual invite to campus??? You can again guess how that worked out. Neither list us.

Yes Capel was on the USA staff.

 

[syrcuse]

Yes Capel was on the USA staff.

I'll stand corrected on Capel then. Still point is we have not been anywhere close to recruiting at Duke's level for a loooooooong time. AND...we couldn't afford to sleep on a recruiting season.....Our team shows that now.