The Black Hole Years

[ebucklewis]

Worst 4 year stretch since 1981-1984. What does SRS stand for? Syracuse rating system?

• SRS
  Simple Rating System; a rating that takes into account average point differential and strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average.

 

[DonLightfoot]

It is indeed "FRUSTRATING" for any long term Orange Hoops fan like myself. But breaking point? Personally I do not feel that way. We were spoiled for years and years having a ranked team year after year which now gets under your skin when we do not accomplish that. Plenty of reasons for this as mentioned above so I will not repeat them. If we are not back there within a couple of years then it is time to review coaching and other possible concerns. I am not in a position to know much about the kids we have coming in for the next couple of years as I really don't follow the high school or AAU scenes. However, based on what members are posting on here, they look promising. Furthermore, if the FBI eventually concludes that we are in fact clean, then that should mean a lot to us based on those other Bluebloods who have some smoke and mirrors to navigate right now. Obviously there is no guarantee that cleanliness leads to wins, unfortunately.

Let's be honest, we do not have the depth or the talent right now to compete with the big boys like Virginia, NC and Duke. That was no more obvious than in Saturday's game. However, it is hard not to really cheer for our current kids in this situation based on their efforts and hustle. That goes a long way with me.

 

[manleyzoo]

We had the same coach, offense, and defense prior to these 4 years. Did Boeheim just magically start sucking after 2014?

Probation is directly related to roster management IMO.

This isn’t to suggest that everything has been done perfectly from 2014-on. Just thinking macro, not micro.

When you're Boeheim's age there is no macro, it's only micro. Your best years are behind you. He's following the same path as nearly every elder coach who thinks he can still do it but really can't, with few exceptions, one whose names rhymes with Smishshmeshky and who knows if that's legit. Even though Boeheim's still sharp his time has passed. This is who we are and how we're going to stay until someone younger comes in and rebuilds.

 

[Caboose]

So, other than making a Final Four run, and playing in a ton of exciting games, including some epic wins over the past few seasons - you're butthurt that we haven't done better?

Got it.

As somebody posted above - sanctions.
They worked. Really, really well.

In spite of that -
this program HASN'T HAD A LOSING SEASON IN OVER FOUR DECADES.
AND COUNTING.

If you think this sucks, try being a Georgetown or UConn fan.

The cavalry is about to come riding over the hill.
There will be plenty of room on the bandwagon once they do.

Ok so be happy w being on the bubble every year and 13-15 losses. That's your choice. I want better than that. Idk I guess that's what I want for my beloved Syracuse team and what I've gotten used to. Go ahead and aspire for mediocrity I guess. Georgetown and UConn are not Syracuse and aren't in the ACC. This is a better program than both of those programs.

Lol bandwagon talk. I flew solo to Dallas and drove almost four hours to Houston by myself because nobody else I knew wanted to spend the money to see Cuse in the Final Four out there. I also flew to San Jose and Atlanta in 2012 Final Four run. I catch them out of town and go to countless home games. Supported this team through thick and thin. Don't talk to me about bandwagon buddy and don't sit on a high horse thinking you're better than any other fan in this forum. We're all in here for a reason. Sometimes it's ridiculous seeing some of the bullies in this forum.

 

[721Comstock]

Ok so be happy w being on the bubble every year and 13-15 losses. That's your choice. I want better than that. Idk I guess that's what I want for my beloved Syracuse team and what I've gotten used to. Go ahead and aspire for mediocrity I guess. Georgetown and UConn are not Syracuse and aren't in the ACC. This is a better program than both of those programs.

Lol bandwagon talk. I flew solo to Dallas and drove almost four hours to Houston by myself because nobody else I knew wanted to spend the money to see Cuse in the Final Four out there. I also flew to San Jose and Atlanta in 2012 Final Four run. I catch them out of town and go to countless home games. Supported this team through thick and thin. Don't talk to me about bandwagon buddy and don't sit on a high horse thinking you're better than any other fan in this forum. We're all in here for a reason. Sometimes it's ridiculous seeing some of the bullies in this forum.

I don't think anybody said anything about being HAPPY about these past 4 seasons - well, other than that awesome Final Four run, of course.
Oh, and beating UVA for JB's 1000th win.
And beating Duke a few times along the way.
And 3 Top 10 wins last year.
And JG and AWIII joining the 40pt club.
And the streak of 1st round draft picks we've had.
And that's just the stuff off the top of my head.

Nobody is aspiring to this - it just is what it is.
Everything in life and the universe is cyclical - this was a down cycle.
(PS - our 'down cycles' still result in WINNING SEASONS. #WINNING!)

And it's also very likely to be over soon, as in, as soon as next season.

What bullies?
You're being a whiny-@ss {redacted} - just own it.

 

[OrangeDW]

When you're Boeheim's age there is no macro, it's only micro. Your best years are behind you. He's following the same path as nearly every elder coach who thinks he can still do it but really can't, with few exceptions, one whose names rhymes with Smishshmeshky and who knows if that's legit. Even though Boeheim's still sharp his time has passed. This is who we are and how we're going to stay until someone younger comes in and rebuilds.

The only thing that’s visible to me is the game coaching... and I don’t see any slipping there. He’s the same as he was 5 years ago.

All the stuff that goes into running a program, who knows. Would seem to be difficult for someone 70+, but everyone’s different.

I think we’ll be better next year than we have been because we’ll have better players, better depth, and more experience.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't think anybody said anything about being HAPPY about these past 4 seasons - well, other than that awesome Final Four run, of course.
Oh, and beating UVA for JB's 1000th win.
And beating Duke a few times along the way.
And 3 Top 10 wins last year.
And JG and AWIII joining the 40pt club.
And the streak of 1st round draft picks we've had.
And that's just the stuff off the top of my head.

Nobody is aspiring to this - it just is what it is.
Everything in life and the universe is cyclical - this was a down cycle.
(PS - our 'down cycles' still result in WINNING SEASONS. #WINNING!)

And it's also very likely to be over soon, as in, as soon as next season.

What bullies?
You're being a whiny-@ss {redacted} - just own it.

I didn’t mind the guys post until he said “bullies”. Lol. This board is incredibly tame for a internet message board. Differing viewpoints is not “bullies”.

 

[br801]

Ok so be happy w being on the bubble every year and 13-15 losses. That's your choice. I want better than that. Idk I guess that's what I want for my beloved Syracuse team and what I've gotten used to. Go ahead and aspire for mediocrity I guess. Georgetown and UConn are not Syracuse and aren't in the ACC. This is a better program than both of those programs.

Lol bandwagon talk. I flew solo to Dallas and drove almost four hours to Houston by myself because nobody else I knew wanted to spend the money to see Cuse in the Final Four out there. I also flew to San Jose and Atlanta in 2012 Final Four run. I catch them out of town and go to countless home games. Supported this team through thick and thin. Don't talk to me about bandwagon buddy and don't sit on a high horse thinking you're better than any other fan in this forum. We're all in here for a reason. Sometimes it's ridiculous seeing some of the bullies in this forum.

There are plenty of posters with very strong opinions on all sides of the issues that are discussed in this forum and other forums on this site. Anyone choosing to initiate or venture into these discussions should be prepared for pushback.

 

[Caboose]

I don't think anybody said anything about being HAPPY about these past 4 seasons - well, other than that awesome Final Four run, of course.
Oh, and beating UVA for JB's 1000th win.
And beating Duke a few times along the way.
And 3 Top 10 wins last year.
And JG and AWIII joining the 40pt club.
And the streak of 1st round draft picks we've had.
And that's just the stuff off the top of my head.

Nobody is aspiring to this - it just is what it is.
Everything in life and the universe is cyclical - this was a down cycle.
(PS - our 'down cycles' still result in WINNING SEASONS. #WINNING!)

And it's also very likely to be over soon, as in, as soon as next season.

What bullies?
You're being a whiny-@ss {redacted} - just own it.

Yes I'm being whiny lol. I know ppl who don't come to this board because of antics like yours where you go after ppl while sitting in your imaginary perch. Anyway... so you're happy with big individual games and milestones. I'm happy with teams that can win a conference tourney game and are locks to make the NCAA tourney. Kind of something we've gotten used to around here. Oh yea, I'm well aware of next year's recruiting class. Thanks captain obvious.

Man can anyone just say around here that they're frustrated or dissatisfied w the way things are going without the holier than thous popping up? Apparently not.

 

[Caboose]

There are plenty of posters with very strong opinions on all sides of the issues that are discussed in this forum and other forums on this site. Anyone choosing to initiate or venture into these discussions should be prepared for pushback.

Yea I guess so. You said it. Some ppl just like 13-15 loss years as long as we throw a party for a JB win milestone.

 

[CousCuse]

If Boeheim had altered the recruiting strategy to get more 4 year developmental players and to have a deeper bench during the sanctions bite, we would not have had all these first round picks, we wouldn't have made any deep runs in the tourney and we likely would have had worse records and probably a losing season. So now we wouldn't be getting these super highly rated recruits or if we did, you world have to throw the guys that have been waiting and developing under the bus. His plan worked to the highest degree possible, probably exceeding the staffs hopes.

 

[OrangeDW]

Some ppl just like 13-15 loss years as long as we throw a party for a JB win milestone.

 

[Alsacs]

If Boeheim had altered the recruiting strategy to get more 4 year developmental players and to have a deeper bench during the sanctions bite, we would not have had all these first round picks, we wouldn't have made any deep runs in the tourney and we likely would have had worse records and probably a losing season. So now we wouldn't be getting these super highly rated recruits or if we did, you world have to throw the guys that have been waiting and developing under the bus. His plan worked to the highest degree possible, probably exceeding the staffs hopes.

This wannabe Townie stuff is amazing.
Boeheim has mismanaged the roster.

We went 3 recruiting classes without signing a PG.
From Kaleb Joseph in 2014 to Howard Washington our plan C recruit in 2017.

Please stop glossing over facts in these JB diatribes.
JB greatness isn’t debated. However he has made mistakes.

 

[CousCuse]

This wannabe Townie stuff is amazing.
Boeheim has mismanaged the roster.

We went 3 recruiting classes without signing a PG.
From Kaleb Joseph in 2014 to Howard Washington our plan C recruit in 2017.

Please stop glossing over facts in these JB diatribes.

You are aware of the fact that a whole lot of the other guys got bought by other schools, right. Quade Green is exhibit A.

 

[Alsacs]

You are aware of the fact that a whole lot of the other guys got bought by other schools, right. Quade Green is exhibit A.

We had no backup for Quade Green.
That is on the HC to have plan B ready.
He went all-in for Green.
We had no top 100 backup.

JB also stopped Hop from bringing in a JUCO PG last year.

This roster isn’t short just because of sanctions. It’s been mismanaged as well.

 

[OrangeDW]

We had no backup for Quade Green.
That is on the HC to have plan B ready.
He went all-in for Green.
We had no top 100 backup.

JB also stopped Hop from bringing in a JUCO PG last year.

This roster isn’t short just because of sanctions. It’s been mismanaged as well.

I’m sure mistakes were made, but the sanctions certainly made the margin for error a lot thinner too.

 

[CousCuse]

We had no backup for Quade Green.
That is on the HC to have plan B ready.
He went all-in for Green.
We had no top 100 backup.

JB also stopped Hop from bringing in a JUCO PG last year.

This roster isn’t short just because of sanctions. It’s been mismanaged as well.

You can look at that way. I just look at it that we had huge success during this period, considering the obstacles, and are now ready to reignite. They probably weren't any plan B A list guards available because they all had already taken the money from an agent.

 

[Alsacs]

I’m sure mistakes were made, but the sanctions certainly made the margin for error a lot thinner too.

Francis has outlined what happened.
JB wasn’t engaged in recruiting and Hop didn’t want to overstep his bounds.

JB became engaged last summer and was good. We need that every year now. It didn’t hurt his son was on the circuit last year.

 

[SUskibum]

13, 14, 15 losses respectively over the last three seasons, and a minimum of 13 this year. I now realize that this is probably what it feels like to be an NC State, or Marquette, or Georgia Tech fan... hope for lightning in a bottle one year, but probably going to be in double-digit loss territory.”

No, the difference is they think these are decent years and we think they are bad years.

We are both right.

 

[orangecuse]

This wannabe Townie stuff is amazing.
Boeheim has mismanaged the roster.

We went 3 recruiting classes without signing a PG.
From Kaleb Joseph in 2014 to Howard Washington our plan C recruit in 2017.

Please stop glossing over facts in these JB diatribes.
JB greatness isn’t debated. However he has made mistakes.

1000 likes and dead on! No doubt that the sanctions hurt, but it was a contributing factor, not the primary one. What carries more weight, imo, is what you have alluded to. Great post!

 

[CousCuse]

1000 likes and dead on! No doubt that the sanctions hurt, but it was a contributing factor, not the primary one. What carries more weight, imo, is what you have alluded to. Great post!

If SU didn't participate in the pay to play scheme, as Boeheim said we didn't, how many viable options were left to recruit?

 

[OrangeDW]

If SU didn't participate in the pay to play scheme, as Boeheim said we didn't, how many viable options were left to recruit?

The Washington kid that went to Minnesota!

Wait, just checked and he’s averaging 8 and 2 and shooting 36% for a 15-16 team. Should’ve figured he’s not doing much since nobody posts about him anymore.

 

[CousCuse]

The Washington kid that went to Minnesota!

Wait, just checked and he’s averaging 8 and 2 and shooting 36% for a 15-16 team. Should’ve figured he’s not doing much since nobody posts about him anymore.

Right. Any guy who the "Shoe Guys" and their agents thought could become a star in the NBA were plied with money to lock them into their brand.

 

[newmexicuse]

program had an amazing run. despite a "terrible" four years for the fanbase, we have survived with our streak of winning seasons intact.

sure things could be better, sure there are a lot of legitimate jb criticisms, but we have been in survival mode and made it through. next season we will finally be on equal footing with some of the cheating acc peer programs that have done so with impunity.

as others in this thread have said, next season we will have reinforcements. lets at least wait until then. no true fan should quit on this program.

 

[orangecuse]

If SU didn't participate in the pay to play scheme, as Boeheim said we didn't, how many viable options were left to recruit?

I don't know. But SU has really never been a program that historically landed blue chipper/top 10-15 type guys, at least not routinely. They've been a system program and have had tremendous success and consistency in this fashion. I don't think, imo, that not participating in the pay to play scheme that you allude to is the proximate cause of these last few years with double digit losses, etc. I think there has been a combination of roster management and recruiting issues/misses, unforeseen defections, injuries as well as sanctions.